How The Kotecki Group Is Bringing Back the Art of the Case Study

James Kotecki, Principal of The Kotecki Group, joins the Content Pros Podcast to share how case studies can energize your marketing with multiple pieces of impactful, motivating content.

In This Episode:

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Full Episode Details

Case Studies: Not Just for Grad School Anymore.

The phrase “case study” usually conjures up images of libraries, scientists, and English majors working on a thesis. Perhaps you have encountered a case study or two in the Harvard Business Review.

But like many of us, case studies have an alter ego outside of business and that’s as excellent fodder for content marketing. Completing the research that goes into crafting a solid case study leaves you with enhanced knowledge of your subject and multiple different bits of media that can be shared across platforms.

From graphs to photos to quotes, case studies can provide you with a number of pieces of content that you can use (in some form or another) on every platform you use.

In the long run, putting in the effort to build a case on your audience now will pay for itself ten times over in reusable content immediately upon completion.

Sounds like a pretty sound marketing investment, wouldn’t you agree?

In This Episode

  • How one case study leads to a multitude of pieces of content
  • Why cultivating content for case-studies doesn’t have to mean a huge financial investment or risk
  • How fine tuning the art of interviewing leads to inspirational and motivational content
  • Why a compelling interview means setting up a good tennis match

 

Quotes From This Episode

One well-crafted conversation with an eye towards building a case study can be used so many different ways.” —@JamesKotecki

I consider the world I’m in a world of interview-based content. Click To Tweet

“You can use these techniques and the philosophy that I have, really at any level of business, no matter where you are as a marketer.” —@JamesKotecki

“A case study has a very basic plot most of the time.” —@JamesKotecki

“I think about an interview as a combination of structured preparation with improvisation. The art of it is to know when you are improvising and when to pull back and get back on course.” —@JamesKotecki

You've really got to get into some details before the viewer or reader will care at all. Click To Tweet

“You really have to make sure that at least the person who’s doing the interviewing is energetic, and interesting, and can actually keep things moving.” —@JamesKotecki

“If you are interviewing a person for a certain reason, you should know what you’re trying to get out of them.” —@JamesKotecki

Resources

 

Content Pros Lightning Round

Handheld mic or lapel mic? Handheld.

Green screen or real-life background? Real-life background.

Sitting on a couch or a chair? Couch!

One guest or two guests being interviewed? One guest.

Do you like to hold a bottle of water or a mug of coffee? How about a glass of chardonnay?

Freestyle rap with a client or a client’s mascot? Client’s mascot.

Favorite late-night interviewer? Stephen Colbert.

If you were on lip-sync battle, what would be your song choice? Fiona Apple’s Criminal.

Transcript

Randy: Welcome to another episode of Content Pros. I’m Randy Frisch from Uberflip. As always, I’ve got Tyler Lessard joining me from Vidyard, and today we’re going to talk about one of those things that your sales team always wants from you, your customers always want from you, and as marketers, you’re probably figuring out, “How do you get more of these?” Case studies, right? Case studies are that kind of balance between, I think, product marketing and content marketing, where you get to really see the two come together and tell these real-life stories of how your product’s manifesting in change. To do that, we’ve actually got a different angle that I think we’re going to talk about, and I’m going to let Tyler bring in our guest, who’s got a lot of experience taking the case study into an interview format.
Tyler: Well, not only is this topic near and dear to my heart, case studies, which I think are really the epitome of storytelling in today’s marketing, but also with a real focus on video and bringing these to life through personal conversations and exposing the passion of customers and executives on camera, which I think all of us need to be doing more of as marketers. Today, we have James Kotecki, the principal at the Kotecki Group, who has been doing video interviews, video customer stories for a number of years now, so James, why don’t you kick things off and give us a little bit of your background as a video buff, and sounds like early on, a little political interviewer?
James: Yeah, well hey guys. It’s great to be on the show, and thanks so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here, and yeah, let’s dive into this. 10 years ago, I can not believe it’s been a decade, but if you can remember back 10 years ago, YouTube was still somewhat nascent, somewhat more innocent, I should say. People were still figuring out, like, “How are people using this in the political realm?” And I was a senior at Georgetown University in early 2007, and I started making videos in my dorm room about how presidential candidates at the time were using YouTube and video in their campaigns, which again, was a new thing. You had the 2006 mid-terms where people were using YouTube, but in 2004, the previous presidential election, I don’t believe YouTube even existed.

News and politics was a new topic on YouTube at the time, and I was making videos about that, and I gained some traction. I think because partly I was one of the only people talking about it, and people thought it was kind of a cool angle that a college kid in his dorm room was using a webcam to talk about video. I was using the thing I was kind of talking about. I was using the same platform, and I would say the apotheosis of that experience, and probably of my entire career so far, is that I interviewed then presidential candidate, Congressman Ron Paul, in my dorm room, for what I will claim is the first ever presidential candidate dorm room interview.

Randy: I love it.
Tyler: Wow.
Randy: That’s the type of thing you think is going to maybe come back to either help him or haunt him one day, right?
James: Well, you know, I think it was funny, because Ron Paul was not as big as he later became, and so it was kind of hitting for both of us at just the right time, for both of our careers, I guess you could say, where he was just not famous enough that it made sense for him to go to a college kid’s dorm room and try something kind of crazy. It worked out well for both of us.
Tyler: You started to find some success early on with video as a medium, and over the years it sounds like you started to home those skills into the business world, the B2B world, and you now focus in one developing customer stories on camera. Is that fair to say?
James: Yeah. In fact, on camera and also in writing, and also getting into audio a little bit as well. I’m not trying to encroach on your guys’ territory, don’t worry, but it’s really about storytelling at any of those formats, but of course video is very near and dear to my heart.
Tyler: Yeah. It’s something that we think about a lot as a team, and I hear more and more people thinking about as a content marketing outlet, as a demand generation tool, as a sales enablement tool, and that’s something that I’ve always felt is so important with developing great customer stories, is people can argue, “Are they top of funnel? Mid-funnel? What are they?” I see them as such important pieces throughout the entire customer journey, as ways to either early on just validate that. You’re a real business serving real companies, or at late stages helping to convince potential buyers by showing other executives at companies like theirs not only that they’re seeing success with you, but I think more importantly showcasing their real human passion for working with you as a business, and that’s something that I know our team often tries to glob onto.
James: Yeah, and I don’t know if I can sell the value of it any better than you just did, but what I would say is that, you know, if I have one 30-minute conversation with an executive, I can take that transcript and I can create a written case study. If it was on camera, I can create a video case study, so right now you’ve got two pieces of content that could be different and used in different ways by different parts of the funnel. Then I’ve also got, because there’s probably a lot of material in that conversation that I wasn’t able to use, either through the written or the video piece, I’ve got other potential quotes and clips that I can pull out and put into blog posts, or on social media, or on infographics, or on the home page, or a landing page. Really, one kind of well-crafted conversation with an eye towards building a case study can be used in so many different ways.
Tyler: Yeah. We also see that coming in on the PR side as well, and we use these as, like, front pieces for our outreach to press, because I think once they see and hear these stories from real people, it often garners interest in them, wanting to talk to them as well and develop a great story around it. It’s the gift that keeps on giving, and I know, Randy, we’ve talked about this a lot, of the idea of hub and spoke model of content marketing these days, getting a great story and then exploding it through different content mediums, different content types, and across multiple channels.
Randy: Yeah. It’s funny. I think often when we talk about it, Tyler, or even internally we often think of … We start with the ebook, right? Like, we’ve got to start with a big, juicy piece of content that way, and then break it off. But this is another way to do it, right? To start with some insights from customers, leverage those insights in a whole bunch of different ways.

James, I want to take this in a bit of a different direction, because the people listening to this podcast are coming from companies of different sizes, you know? Some with massive budgets to spend on marketing, and probably could attribute some of those dollars to more creative things like case studies and video case studies, but some are coming from pretty lean environments. Maybe you can give us an understanding of, like, what does it cost to do a case study? Or what are some of the more hacky ways to go and get this done?

James: Sure. I mean, obviously a great answer in marketing and having an agency is like, “It costs whatever people are willing to spend.” Right? You can clearly go pretty high up the scale. When I talk about videos, sometimes I say, “A video can cost anywhere from zero to a million dollars.” Any of those prices could theoretically be correct for what you’re trying to accomplish. But to answer your question more specifically, what I’m doing, I consider the world I’m in a world of interview-based content. I don’t know if anyone uses that term or Googles that term when they’re thinking about what I’m offering, but that’s kind of how I think about it internally. There’s lots of ways on the low end to have conversations with people that you don’t even have to necessarily get someone from an agency like me involved, and create a lot of great content. I mean, one of the premises of my business is that so much amazing content exists in the heads of the people who work in your organization, and they don’t have the bandwidth or time to write it themselves.

If you’re a marketer and you’re looking for content and you’re tired of just being in your own head all the time and trying to come up with the next, you know, “top 10 funny” list or whatever, just get out of your own head and talk to some of the people that are sitting next to you. Interview them for a 20-minute conversation. Save them the time that it would take them to write, which in some cases, depending on the person, could be three, four hours for just a blog post. People write at different speeds. Save them the time, interview them, and then write up your interview, and you’ll get out of your own head, you’ll get a fresh perspective, and you’ll be able to unlock some of that content that already exists, like I said, in the minds of your colleagues. That would be the absolute lowest and hackiest way to do it, and still potentially creates something really great, and you can go up the scale from there to interviews in audio format, or interviews on camera, which of course can be much more costly if you want to make a professional looking video. I’m sure your listeners know a lot about that and the costs involved in creating high-end videos.

You can use these techniques and the philosophy that I have, really at any level of business, no matter where you are as a marketer.

Randy: That’s really interesting. I think, you know, our first gut when we think about doing a case study, doing an interview, is that we ought to get out of our office, right? You know, we’ve got to get on a plane, or somehow tie someone down on a call. But the point you make is great. It’s, “Leverage the people in your office.” Some of them may not have the confidence to step up and say, “I’ve got a post that could be written,” or, “I’ve got an idea to elaborate,” or some of them may not have the time. We used to do that here even with me, where I would sit with one of our content members, and just dump ideas for 30 minutes. Those would then make their way either into a blog post or ghostwritten post that I would then edit after the fact.

I think that’s a real important point to take away here. Maybe just going a little bit deeper on this, when we do get into the type of work that you get involved in, which is a little bit more polished, to give you credit, I guess, but what does that end up looking like, and how do you think about prepping for that? I remember myself, once, we had our accounting firm do like an expose on us, and it was so well-prepared, I remembered. Like, there was a story written almost before they had come in, in terms of where they wanted to go. Can you talk about that art of interviewing, if you will?

James: Sure. This is a topic that I think about quite a bit, and I write about quite a bit, so I’m excited to share it. The one thing I think, to think about with an interview, especially for a case study, is that all case studies are basically telling a very similar story. If you think about a Hollywood blockbuster, how they all have the same basic plot, or like the hero’s journey, or any of those kind of … Joseph Campbell, or any of those kind of classic storytelling archetypes, a case study has a very basic plot most of the time, which is, “Here’s a company that you may not know about, so let us introduce you to that company a little bit, just to get a quick flavor of what this company does so you can latch on in your mind and have some association with it. Here’s the challenge they were facing. Here’s how they came upon our solution. Here’s how they used our solution, and here’s where they are at the end of the day, on the other end of that journey.”

Most of what I’m doing in a case study interview is just trying to add color and fill in all of those details, and make sure that I’m getting information for all of those different story points. That’s where the fun, and that’s where the art of it is, is because every story is different, every colorful detail can be different, and that’s really where the fun comes in. I come from an improv comedy background, that I just like to do in my spare time, and I think about an interview as a combination of structured preparation, where you know the basic top-level questions you have to ask to elicit those story points that I just mentioned, combined with improvisation, where if somebody says something off the cuff and it’s a little potential detail about their office, like they mention for example that, “Hey, nobody wears shoes in our office.” And they just happen to mention that, maybe you ought to do a followup question on that and get a little bit more color about why. Maybe because they’re a fitness company and everyone’s doing yoga, or something like that. That will just give you a little bit more color for the case study.

The art of it, I think- and by “art,” I mean something that you have to practice to get better at, it’s not just something that I could just tell you exactly how to do it- the art of it is knowing when you are improvising, and when to kind of follow up on things, and go down tangential rabbit holes, and see where they go, and when to pull back and get back on course, and get back on structure, because you only have a limited time with the person that you’re interviewing, and you have to get a certain number of questions in and wrap things up. That’s what’s really exciting and fun for me about it. Whether I’m doing it over the phone for a text interview, or whether I’m doing that on camera, that’s the most exciting part of my job, is living with that kind of balancing act, and trying to create something great from that process.

Randy: I love that, and the good news I can tell you is, as you’re saying all this, both Tyler and I are sitting here saying, “Nice. We’re doing it right.” Because, yeah, to kind of like lift the veil, if you will, on how we do things here at Content Pros, because this is ultimately an interview-style podcast, is for our listeners, our guests get a questionnaire to give us some context before the show. It allows Tyler and I to kind of like hit points that we want to go on, but to be honest, for the most part, we’re just kind of seeing how things go, seeing how things unfold, and I think that’s where we get the real, genuine stories, versus I know for some people it works to have a very scripted set of questions.
James: I just wanted to say, I hope this can be your most meta podcast ever, because we’re effectively talking about the process of doing this podcast, and this very process is the process that I use on my own at work.
Tyler: I was going to dig on the not wearing shoes in the office. Not that specifically, but the idea and the art of exposing the individual, and the humanity, and the personality of those people on camera, and that’s something that always … You know, we try to strive for, and I find the best stories on camera with customers are those that have that right balance of showing them and talking about their business context, but also kind of peeling back on who they are as an individual, and establishing a more personal rapport, which kind of, I find, breaks down the guards, and kind of opens up the conversation, and I think as a viewer, also opens you up, because you start to feel a bit more relaxed, and feeling like, “Oh, yeah. This is a real person, just like me.” Is that part of what you do in your process? You mentioned, like, asking some of those questions and going down those more personal rabbit holes if they reveal something interesting.
James: Oh, absolutely. In fact, sometimes I’m a little bit worried if my client … I usually don’t like my clients to be in the room or on the phone when I’m doing the interview, but sometimes they are and it’s fine. Sometimes I worry that, from my client’s perspective, I’m not getting to the kind of nut of it fast enough for them. Like, I might spend 10 minutes chatting somebody up about who they are, what they do, how they feel about the work that they’re doing, and just get a lot of great sound bites and quotes based on that.
Tyler: Right.
James: But I’m not talking to them about the core product that we’re there to really talk about. I’m not talking about how they work with my client yet, because I want to spend a long time getting to know that person, and giving my reader or my viewer as much context as I possibly can, to draw them into that world. Once they’re in that world, then we can hit them with the more salesy part of it, but I want to make sure that I’m getting a lot of that context, because I think that’s what … I think you’re hitting on it exactly right. I think that that’s what makes the story, and that’s what makes the story engaging. If you just start off with, you know, “Company X is a company that uses company Y,” that’s not interesting. You’ve really got to get into some details before I, as the viewer or the reader, care at all about that company enough to care that they use company Y.
Tyler: I love it, and I want to dig a bit further into how to make these kinds of stories interesting, because I’ve seen enough talking heads that, again, I really think people need to be thinking about how to make these creative, how to make them interesting. Before we do that, we’re going to take a quick break here to hear from our sponsors, and we’ll be right back to talk to James a little bit more about creating great customer stories.
Randy: Welcome back to Content Pros. We’re talking all about case studies and interviews, and how to get all the best information out of that person on the other side, and we’re sitting here with James Kotecki doing so. James, I’ve got a question for you, and Tyler and I go to a lot of events, right? I’ve got to tell you the truth. Sometimes, I get really nervous when I find out the next upcoming segment at an event is an interview, because it’s either going to be really, really insightful, or the biggest waste of my time, right? It’s either that time where I really dial in, or that I dial in to update on my emails and my Slack messages and things like that. Maybe you can give us some tips to, like, how to make things engaging. Like, maybe if you could write a blog post right now, “The Top Three Tips to Make a Conversation Engaging,” how do you make that happen? How does it start? Because the start is where you hook someone, right?
James: Yeah. Like I said, I come from an improv background, so let me improvise this answer, and we’ll see if we get three things out of it. I would start with this. I think what you’re watching when you’re watching an interview on stage is effectively a verbal tennis match. If you’re watching a tennis match, it’s really going to be interesting if both parties are good, right?

I would say the first step to making a compelling interview on stage is making sure that both of those people actually should be on stage. I understand, like, sometimes people put people up on stage to be interviewed, because that person might not be comfortable in a keynote setting, or they might not have prepared anything in a keynote setting, and they just want to make it more relaxed and easier for that person. That’s understandable, but you really have to make sure that at least the person who’s doing the interviewing is energetic, and interesting, and can actually keep things moving. I mean, this is one of the things that I do professionally, and I guess I’m completely biased in saying this, but not everybody … It’s a skill, right? It’s a skill that you can develop and that you can work at, but just tossing up your VP of product to interview somebody because that’s the closest executive that you happen to glance over when you were planning this thing is not a good idea. I think the number one thing is it starts in the planning stages, to make sure that both of these people can actually talk well to each other.

The second thing, I think, is to encourage back and forth answers, right? Hopefully I’m not being too long-winded right now, but what you really don’t want is somebody who’s going to ask a question, and then the person responds with a 10-minute monologue every single time, because that eats up …

Randy: You’re doing well. You’re doing well. We’ve had those 10-minute monologues on this podcast, and Tyler and I are like, “What do we do?” This is good. Keep going. Keep going.
James: You want to at least maybe, to the extent that the interviewee can be encouraged to keep their answers shorter, that’s exactly what you should do. I think the other thing I’ll say is a practical piece of advice, which is change up the formats of the questions. Have a little bit of a back and forth that’s maybe a casual conversation, but then change it up. Do a lightning round, you know? Do, “Okay, you have to give me one-word answers for this quick list of 10 questions.” Things like that can really keep it moving as well.
Tyler: I love that. It’s funny you say that. When we have a guest speaker here at our company, and we have them sort of sit up at the front, sort of panel style for the rest of the business, we always start with a lightning round to kind of get them in the mood, and get them warmed up. You see a total change in posture when you start off with something like, “Okay, yes or no answer.” Or, “One-word answer, right? Coke or Pepsi?” Right? Then they’ll always say, “What? Water.” Right? It’s like, every time. “Nope. Water.” Then they loosen up, and they get right into it, and then when you get into the meat of those questions, you’re getting much more comfortable, honest answers on camera, and it makes a world of difference. I think that’s a great takeaway.
James: I just thought of a fourth thing, which is probably the most foundational thing of all. You should know why you are doing it in an interview format, and why those people are on stage. This is kind of wrapping up some of the things, encompassing some of the things I said earlier, but if you are interviewing them for a certain reason, you should- like we just talked about with the case study’s story structure and how you kind of know that in advance, and it’s half-improv, but half-prepared- you should know what you’re trying to get out of that person. If you’re trying to take them down a certain road, and they’re going in a completely different direction that’s just completely off the rails, knowing why you’re interviewing them will give you the ability to pull it back. If you’re just throwing them up there because you couldn’t think of anything else to program the segment with, and you’re just having a random conversation, then that’s almost guaranteed to not be as interesting to the audience.
Tyler: Let me ask you one other thing on making the content interesting for audiences. You know, you’ve got to make sure you’re asking the right questions. You’ve got a great speaker on the other side who can tell the story. You want to get the casual, personal nature of it. What else do you want to think about from a creative perspective to, again, make the … At least from a video, when you’re doing it in a video style, to make it interesting, to make it stand out, or to make it resonate? Do you look for the setting to do it in, in their office or somewhere else? Do you think about kind of post-production B-roll footage? Do you think about adding graphics? Are there any tricks to the trade people should be thinking about when trying to turn that talking head into something a little bit more engaging?
James: Yeah, certainly we think about all that, in terms of video. I’ll even add just a couple more things that came up. We did a series of talk show style interviews at CES this year, and a couple things that came up beyond the things that you mentioned, all of which were really relevant, one was furniture. This is one of those things you might not think about when you’re planning the video, and it might just be an afterthought. “Oh, we’ll just grab a couple chairs and put them on there.” If the chairs can rock, if they can move, if they can make noise, if they’re too big, if they’re too small, if they’re too high, if they’re too low, all those things can really change the nature of how the audience is going to perceive that content, and how it’s going to be captured on video. A seemingly minor detail that can make a huge difference.

The other thing, especially at a conference or a trade show, is audio. Oh my gosh. We had some challenges with audio, where we were interviewing people in the back of a big convention hall, but at the front of the convention hall was a stage that intermittently had really loud presentations. Other times, it was silent. We had to work around and plan for that. If you were standing next to the person and doing the interview, you can hear them just fine, but you know, those in your audience who have worked with video know that what you’re experience is in the actual interview is different than what’s actually being captured by the audio equipment. You need to make sure that if you have audio, competing audio, that you’re working effectively around it or with it.

Randy: It’s great advice. You know, James, I’m trying to learn from you as we go here. I gotta be completely honest. With that, I feel like I have to ingest a lightning round here. I just prepared like five questions on the fly, all right? We’re going to go right at this really fast. We’re going to fly through them. All right. Here we go. Handheld mic or lapel mic?
James: Handheld mic.
Randy: Green screen or real-life background?
James: Real-life background.
Randy: Sitting on a couch or a chair?
James: Couch.
Randy: Couch. Nice. One guest, or two guests being interviewed?
James: One guest, please.
Randy: All right. The last one. Do you like to hold a bottle of water, or a mug of coffee?
James: How about a glass of chardonnay?
Randy: Ah, nice. Well done. Well done. That was the one where you could improvise. You always have to finish where someone can improvise, right?
James: Yeah. Exactly. Actually, I’m not even sure that that’s true, but it just seemed like the funniest answer to give you in the moment, so I thought it would be good.
Tyler: Now I’ve got one for you. I’ve got one for you here. Would you rather freestyle rap with a client, or with the client’s mascot?
James: Oh. Well, you know, I have done the latter, so I guess I’ll have to say the latter. Client’s mascot.
Randy: We need context. I feel like you guys have some sort of inside joke here that I…
James: I’m surprised you found this one, actually. This is a piece of internet trivia that I thought was buried. When I worked at a digital marketing agency, we were making some kooky videos, and it was a series of urgent care clinics, and they had this goofy mascot doctor who just looked like a regular doctor, but essentially in a mascot costume, so think about a theme park or an athletic mascot walking around downtown Raleigh, North Carolina. For some reason, we thought it would be funny is if we had the mascot walk up to people, and I was standing next to the mascot in a suit, and I would just rap, and the mascot would dance. To this day, I don’t actually know how well it performed for the client, but it was certainly a lot of fun to make.
Randy: Awesome. James, we’ve got a couple more minutes, and aside from the lightning round we just did, we often finish one where we just get to know our guests a little bit better outside of work. I’ve got a couple of things I’m just curious on. One of them, let’s talk late night TV, right? Who is your favorite interviewer, between like, whether it’s James Corden, Kimmel, Fallon, someone else? Who’s your go-to for inspiration?
James: Oh, man. I’ve been a Colbert fan for a long time. Even when he was up against the Daily Show, I thought he was just, of the two, even though I grew up on Jon Stewart, he was the one I’d prefer, so I gotta go Stephen Colbert on that one.
Randy: Okay. Nice. Nice. Now, if you were to be on Fallon, though, and he does the lip sync battle, right? What would be your lip sync song?
James: Fiona Apple’s Criminal.
Randy: Okay. All right. There you go. People are going to be looking that one up.
James: It’s a classic gem from the 90s. I’ve actually done that song karaoke, and it’s a good kind of like … There’s a little bit of an audience surprise value if, like, I come up there and start by saying, “I’ve been a bad, bad girl. I’ve been careless with a delicate man.” It’s one of those fun songs to sing karaoke, because you can play against type with it.
Randy: Fantastic. Fantastic. All right. People are going to definitely put you on the spot in some sort of speaking engagement in the future when they get their hands on this piece of content, right? Fantastic. Maybe just leave us, where can people find you in terms of learning more about you? Like, are you on Instagram? Are you on LinkedIn? Where’s the best place for people to track down, just to follow more about what you’re doing.
James: So many ways, and I’ll probably respond to all of them. Kotecki Group, K-O-T-E-C-K-I, G-R-O-U-P dot com is my business website. That’s probably the best place to direct people to, but yeah, sure. James Kotecki on LinkedIn. @JamesKotecki on Twitter. I think my Facebook page is public. I am on Instagram. I believe also JamesKotecki is my username there. Somebody came up to me in a coffee shop the other day and said they remembered what I did at Politico 10 years ago. Honestly, that never happens, but since it happened yesterday, I thought I’d mention it to say if anybody wants to come up to me in a coffee shop, I’m happy to chat.
Randy: Amazing. That’s awesome. James, this has been a ton of fun. Really appreciate you taking the time to share. I think we learned a lot about how to think about case studies, how to get to them, right? I mean, sometimes they’re there. We just have to engage someone and get that information out, or just get ideas from people in more of an interview style. We really appreciate you taking the time to share that with us on the Content Pros podcast.

I encourage people, if they’re enjoyed this, to check out all the other great content we have at ContentProsPodcast.com. A lot of episodes over the years that we’ve been able to pull great guests like James, and please leave us a review when you find us on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, wherever that is, and let us know what we can do to make this more engaging. In the meantime, on behalf of Tyler Lessard at Vidyard, I’m Randy Frisch at Uberflip, and this has been the Content Pros podcast.

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