How to Create a Word of Mouth Marketing Strategy

Jay Baer, Founder of Convince & Convert, joins the Content Experience Show to discuss Talk Triggers and word of mouth marketing.

In This Episode:

Jay Baer

Convince & Convert

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Full Episode Details

What’s Your Talk Trigger?

Comments, reviews, conversations… no matter what form your customer chatter takes, the word of the customer is life or death for any business. Advertising dollars can only go so far and in the end, consumers trust one another more than they trust even the most thoughtful and informative ad.

The problem with word of mouth is that it’s completely out of your control… or is it? Jay Baer of Convince & Convert thinks otherwise. His new book, Talk Triggers, is all about his strategy for giving your customers something they want to talk about.

Now that companies around the world are fully embracing content creation, simply having good content isn’t enough to stand out from your peers and competitors. By identifying your own talk trigger, you can begin to shape a story for your company that your customers will be excited to take to their friends.

In This Episode

  • Why all content should be an experience
  • What it means to have a content experience and how to create one
  • How to build a strategy for word of mouth marketing
  • How a talk trigger gives your customers a story to tell about your company

Quotes From This Episode

If content isn't experience, what's the point of doing the content? Click To Tweet

“Word of mouth is the most powerful and perhaps the most cost effective form of customer acquisition.” — @jaybaer

“If you want to make word of mouth work for your business, you have to give your customers a story.” — @jaybaer

If all you do is play follow the leader, you will never be better than second best. Click To Tweet

Resources

Content Experience Lightning Round

What is your favorite game show to watch these days on television?

Jay is a big fan of The Price is Right. He’s watched it since he was a kid and loves the variety of games and people. He even says that being offered the position as host might be the only scenario where he’d be willing to sell Convince & Convert!

What makes drool-worthy ridiculously amazing barbecue?

Jay has a lot to say about this, he definitely loves good barbecue! He does point out that buying quality meat is definitely the foundation of great barbecue.

See you next week!

Episode Transcript

 
Randy: Welcome to the Content Experience Show. I'm Randy Frisch. Anna Hrach, thank you so much for being here too. We've got a really special episode today because we've got Jay here, Jay Baer.
Jay started this podcast way back when. He brought me in. He told me about you. He introduced the two of us. He's kind of our matchmaker. Now he's here. We felt a little bit of pressure when we interviewed him this past week, but it went pretty well. Jay is a big deal. You can tell everyone about him. He's the man.
Anna: Yeah, totally. It's funny whenever I look through Jay's bio, and I talk about to people about exactly everything Jay does, it kind of reads like the most interesting man in the world. A lot of you out there already know who Jay Baer is. You follow him, you've seen him speak. Just as a refresher for everyone, Jay is a renowned business strategist, sought after keynote speaker, New York Times bestselling author of five books, and host of the award winning Social Pros Podcast. In addition to that, he has advised 700-plus companies since 1994, including brands like Caterpillar, Nike, Allstate, the United Nations, and 32 of the Fortune 500. Of course he is also the founder and president of Convince & Convert, a strategy and consulting firm that helps prominent companies gain and keep more customers, which I of course am also a part of.
Randy: You've left out some things that we've learned on this upcoming podcast, though.
Anna: We learned a lot.
Randy: Yeah, like his love for barbecue. We can't go into it, because he does. We learned about how him and I share a love for the term the content experience, and the involvement that he's going to have in helping build that movement. Really everyone who tunes into this podcast is helping build that movement, too, because it's an opportunity to take these ideas, take them back into your company, and really push for changes in terms of how we leverage the content we've created. I think those are the areas that Jay is really pushing us on these days.
Anna: Totally. What's amazing is the next 25 minutes everybody is in for a huge treat, because not only are they going to learn more about the Content Experience show, and what makes it so different, and what makes it so important at this critical time in content marketing, they're also going to learn a bit about Jay's new book and get some tips and tricks there. They're also going to get a sneak peek into Con Ex this year, and they're also going to get some amazing barbecue tips.
Randy: Absolutely. The talk trigger thing is really cool because I think for a lot of us as we learned, we get into the motions of doing the same as we've always done, whether that's the same that our team does, or whether we look at our competition and say we've got to do that. The idea of a talk trigger that I really take away from is challenging ourselves as marketers for something that will distinguish us and help build our brand, and something that people come to us for, whether it's silly or whether it's iconic. There's so many brands when I think about it that I'm loyal to, and that I probably can tell you what their talk trigger is.
Anna: Totally. Yeah, everybody has that brand that they love, they rave about to their friends, their family members, and it's those things we rave about that Jay's going to talk to us about today, and how we can start to identify them, and why it's so critical for brands.
Randy: Without further ado, Anna, let's bring in Jay. Let's let you guys hear the great time we had this past week on the Content Experience Show.
Anna: Jay, welcome to the Content Experience Podcast. It is so wonderful to have you here as our first official guest.
Jay: I feel like I had to be here for the first official, I feel like I was assigned this responsibility, Anna, to be here on the big Content Experience, the Con Ex Show with you and my good friend Randy. Super psyched for you guys. This is going to be amazing.
Anna: Agreed. We're really excited about it too. Everybody who was listening in on mine and Randy's little teaser trailer last time kind of knows the direction that we're going. It's actually fitting because you started Content Pros back in the day, and you've also been talking about content experiences in some way shape or form for a long time, even way back from your first book, Utility, and all the way up to even Hug Your Haters. It's really kind of a thread you've talked about for a long time.
Jay: Shouldn't all content be an experience? If a content isn't experience, what's the point of doing the content? You're just trying to do something for Google's benefit? What's the point of this?
As I've said a number of times, maybe even on the Content Pros show at one point, the goal is not to be good at content. The goal is to be good at business because of content. The only way you do that is by producing content, a content experience if you will, that your audiences actually want to receive.
If your audiences aren't craving your content, if the thing that you're making isn't their favorite version of that, their favorite blog, their favorite podcast, their favorite video series, their favorite Instagram story, their favorite haiku, their favorite YouTube channel, then why are you doing this at all? I got to tell you, as you guys know and your guests know on this show, content ain't easy, and it sure isn't free. It's getting harder and harder all the time, and there's a lot of people out there, including some of the clients that we have the good fortune to work with at Convince & Convert, Anna and I and our team, who are really involved in the random acts of content movement right now. They're just firing bullets off into the air hoping that a bird flies over, and that's not going to work anymore.
Anna: It's kind of funny, I actually love, that's one of my favorite quotes of yours, about stopping random acts of content. It seems like thinking about the entire experience can really help with some of that, taking a step back and really looking at what we're providing, and just a little bit of clarification, Jay, how do you define the content experience?
Jay: The content experience is everything that happens to the audience during and after their consumption of that content. The content experience is the totality of the interaction. I would say that the content experience is not much different than the customer experience. I define customer experience as how we make our customers feel, and I would say the content experience is how we make our audiences feel. After consuming content, after listening to the show, how do they feel? That's the experience in my estimation.
Randy: I love that, Jay. It's funny, I like that retail experience analogy, and you know I love analogies, and you think about it there's certain stores that we all love to go into. Think about your grocery store. There's so many different stores where you can buy apples and you can buy your cereal, but so many of us love going to Whole Foods. Whole Foods is a completely different experience from beginning to end when you walk in and walk out of there. I think the same thing can be said about the content. We've all bought in now to creating content, or many of us have, and now we've got to actually take it to that next level to say it's not enough to create content. We have to think about that end to end experience from the first point that someone engages with us to whatever we suggest next to put into their basket, if you will, using the shopping analogy, and I think just as you've bought it, we're seeing a lot of people buy in.
As you know, my company Uberflip, we've been preaching the content experience along with you for awhile now, and I remember it was about a year or so that we saw another software company use our tagline of the content experience platform that you need, and at first I went home, I was so mad. I was like pissed. I was like how are they copying us, but then I realized no, this is legit now. Like other people are doing it too. We're not the only ones shouting out and talking about that, and I think that's what all of us are really excited about.
Jay: I couldn't agree more. We have to think bigger about what content is and what it can be, and also how it fits in to the overall objective of the organization, so I'm excited about this show, excited about the work that we're doing together on the event, Randy, between Uberflip and Convince Convert Consulting. Content is now air. It's everywhere inside the organization. We don't talk enough probably about the role and the importance of internally created content, about the content that you're creating to educate, entertain, and inform your own team members. There's a lot of other elements to content that we don't spend as much time on because it's not as immediately sexy or entertaining as do better YouTube or whatever, but there's a lot of other dimensions to content through the content experience, and I'm really excited that we're going to unveil and uncover some of those in this show as we move forward.
Randy: Absolutely, and we'll keep people in a little bit of anticipation hearing about the event that we've done together, and the involvement you're going to have going forward. Before we get to that, though, you were mentioning the idea of what do we talk about when it comes to content, and lately you've been going around and meeting with a lot of marketers, talking to a lot of audiences, and your new book is coming out that talks all about how we get people's attention, and what we become known for, and I believe you call it a talk trigger. Maybe you can help us understand what a talk trigger is, and what the book will focus on.
Jay: Yeah, here's the crazy thing, guys. Word of mouth is the most powerful and perhaps the most cost effective form of customer acquisition, period. New research came out just a few months ago from Engagement Labs that says that 19% of all purchases in the united States are driven directly by word of mouth, and as much as 40% of all purchases are influenced by word of mouth, and those numbers are even higher in business to business, because it's very, very rare that somebody makes a B2B purchase without checking with a friend, without looking at reviews, or something along those lines. Whether they're going to hire Convince & Convert, or Uberflip, or any of the other trillions of B2B firms out there, people gut check that first, and a lot of times word of mouth is the tipping point there, so what's crazy about that is you're talking about somewhere between 20% and 40% of your whole business, right?
100% of the people listening to my voice right now care about word of mouth. 1% of those people have a strategy and a plan for creating it. We assume that our customers will talk about our businesses. However, we almost never give them raw materials to tell stories about us. We assume that being good equals a story, that we have good food, we provide good customer service, we're a good company. Nobody ever says ever, Rand, nobody ever says hey, hey, hey, hey, let me tell you, I'm going to tell you about this perfectly adequate experience I had last night. Nobody says those words, right, so if you want to ...
Randy: My wife sometimes hears those, but that's the extent, yeah. I guess you're right.
Jay: Yeah, exactly. If you want to make word of mouth work for your business, and trust me you do, you have to give your customers a story. You have to do something that is outside of the frame of their current expectations. I'm writing this new book with my good friend, Daniel Lemon, called Talk Triggers, and it's all about how same is lame. Playing follow the leader especially in marketing is a road to ruin, and we see it all the time. We probably see it more in B2B than B2C, but we see it constantly. One organization has a good idea, and all their competition mimics that idea, whether it's a headline, a tagline, a color scheme, a landing page, a webinar, a podcast, whatever, everybody does the same thing because, oh, evidence of success.
If all you do is play follow the leader, you will never be better than second best, because whoever was original will always do it better because they will become known for it, and if all you cared about is averages, you'll never be anything other than an average marketer, right? You've got to give yourself permission to do something different, and when you do that, Anna, that's where word of mouth clones your customers. Your current customers tell their friends, which brings you new customers at no additional cost. That's why talk triggers are so important.
Anna: It's kind of funny that you mentioned the follow the leader. I think one of the best examples that I saw of that was when BuzzFeed came out with those tasty videos, and they were brilliant, and amazing, and wonderful, but now even still you see everybody with their recipe is following that style, that format, that very sort of stylistic cut, but on the flip side, you know, brands giving themselves the opportunity to be original and do something different, Jay, what's a really good example of that that you've seen lately, a really good example of a good talk trigger, where somebody did something exceptional that no one else is doing?
Jay: I'll give you a couple of examples, one very simple, and one more complex. One of the examples we have in the book, and one that I talk about a lot because it really does conceptualize talk triggers and word of mouth quite neatly, is a restaurant in Sacramento called Skip's Kitchen, and Skip's is a one-location organization, run by Skip, per the name of the restaurant. It's mostly high-end hamburgers, that kind of thing. It's counter service, so you go to the counter, you order, and they give you a number, and they bring you your food when it's done. Well, Skip's is a popular restaurant partially because they have an extraordinary talk trigger.
The way it works is you order your food at the counter, and whether you have one person in your party or twelve, once you've completed your order they pull a deck of cards out from under the counter, they fan all the cards out face down, and they say pick a card, and if you pick a Joker, your entire meal is free, and that happens on average three times a day, and people go bonkers, right? They sound a bell, and they take selfies, and they tell their friends. It's insane, right, and then if you don't win they give you the card, so let's say you get eight of clubs, and you put that on the table, and that's your number, so they bring the burger up to you, patty melts, and onion rings, oh, eight of clubs, here you go, right, so it's a whole thing.
Skip's has a line to get in almost constantly. They have spent zero dollars and zero cents on marketing in seven years. The only thing they do is the cards.
Randy: It's such a better experience than the Seinfeld Soup Nazi, but just as effective, right? I mean ...
Jay: Which is also a talk trigger, but not a positive one, right, and that's the ...
Anna: Right.
Randy: Absolutely.
Jay: I'll give you an example of a business to business talk trigger, probably one that many listeners are familiar with. You may have used a conference call service called Uber Conference. It's free or inexpensive conference calling to get all your team members on the line. You may know that they have a very humorous on-hold song that they wrote, that their co-founder wrote, and it's very catchy, and people have covered it, you know, you find it on Spotify now, and so most on-hold music is perfunctory at best, they turned their on-hold music into an actual word-of-mouth generator, and if you go to Twitter, and do a search for Uber Conference plus on-hold, you will see dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of posts and mentions.
The threshold that we use in the book to determine whether or not a differentiator is a talk trigger is whether it's got a 25% pass along rate, so if one out of your four, one out of every four customers mention it or remember it when you ask them, then it is sufficiently sticky to propel into the future.
Randy: Those are amazing examples. We are going to take a break to hear a talk trigger from some of our sponsors who hopefully have some great things to get you talking about, and then we'll be back here on the Content Experience Show.
Anna: Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Content Experience Show. We are here with the always amazing Jay Baer, and we are talking talk triggers, which is ...
Jay: I'm literally paying you to say that, I just want to make sure everybody is clear, because Anna and I are both at Convince to Convert Consulting, so I do appreciate that Anna Hrach. Thank you very much, your bonus check is in the mail.
Randy: There's no conflict of interest here today. It's purely about education for everyone. Okay.
Anna: Totally, which is now going to be a talk trigger, so it's we've just gone super meta, so we are talking Talk Triggers, and that book comes out on October 2nd, so, Jay, October 2nd is a little bit far away. It's January. Can you give everybody you know some insight into maybe how they can start identifying or building their talk triggers until the official book and how-to guide comes out?
Jay: Absolutely. Thanks, Anna. Well, I think first of all people have to understand just how powerful word of mouth is. As I said earlier, most businesses are very laissez faire about how they handle word of mouth. They just assume that it happens, and it's just not really part of marketing conversations very often, like there is no strategy, there is no plan, so step one is to say hey, we should take this seriously, and trust me you should. Step two is to see if maybe you've got some existing talk triggers already, like you may have something that you are known for amongst your customers that maybe you just don't think about so much as a talk trigger, so for example, I was recently in South Dakota doing a presentation for the South Dakota Department of Tourism to all of the different tourist attractions and hoteliers and restaurateurs and tour operators in that state, and there's a famous business in South Dakota called Wall Drug. It's been around for almost a hundred years.
It's a very large kind of tourist destination, really interesting business, and so I just did a quick search of people who post Instagram and tag that post with Wall Drug, and what I found was that of the first twelve posts I looked at, four showed customers riding this giant like 50-foot tall cement jackalope that they have out front, and so when you've got four out of twelve just randomly, right, that's a pretty significant pass through threshold, like they already have a talk trigger right under their nose, they just didn't know it, so if I was running Wall Drug, as I mentioned to them in my presentation, like I would double down on emphasis of this giant rabbit.
There's a museum in South Dakota called the Adams Museum. It's in Deadwood, South Dakota, the famous old western town, also the same name of a famous HBO show, and this museum kind of chronicles the history of that region back when it was kind of gunslingers and miners and all that stuff. Well, this museum has lots and lots of exhibits, and you can go to TripAdvisor.com, or use social listening depending on your business, and they'll show you a word cloud of the words that typically show up when people leave a review on TripAdvisor, so I did that for these guys, and this particular museum is talked about free admission, and history of Deadwood, and a few other things in the word cloud. Then, in the word cloud, guys, it said two-headed calf.
Anna: What?
Jay: I said wait a second. Okay, so free admission, yeah, that's cool. History of Deadwood, yeah, that's cool. Three floors was one of the other keywords, it's got three floors to the exhibit, okay, that's cool. Two-headed calf, well, now we're getting somewhere from a talk-trigger standpoint, and so I told them, I said look, if you've got a two-headed calf, and some people, many people, are already mentioning that in your TripAdvisor reviews, that is your talk trigger, so the first thing you should do is look for evidence of consistent customer chatter no, and then, and this is why this fits into the Content Experience Show, once you have that thing, right, once you have your differentiator, then you use content to make sure that people know about it.
We just finished the chapter, writing the chapter in the book, about what we call amplifying your trigger, and the key to amplifying your talk trigger, to making word of mouth work, is to make sure that your customers know that this thing is different, right, and so content is the propellant for word of mouth. You can't just say well, we've got cards, and then nobody knows about it, right? You gotta have an Instagram account, and you got to encourage your customers to share about it, the Joker thing that Skip's Kitchen does, et cetera, so content word of mouth work together very, very tightly. At least that's how it should work.
Randy: Those are awesome examples. I feel intimidated a little because, you know, some of these just feel so outrageous, but I guess they just come to be. I know in our case, you've always loved one of our talk triggers here at Uberflip, being our big very popular pink headbands that just stand out, everyone know them, and it creates this army of followers, and many of our customers will write to us saying how do I get one, or I need one for other members of our team, and you know it's fun when we have these outrageous things that just kind of form, and to your point I think you have to kind of run with them.
You know, another one, yeah, another ...
Jay: Absolutely.
Randy: I don't know if you'd classify as a talk trigger, but we're trying to associate it as something that people talk about us in association with, is this conference that we've put on the last two years. It's been amazing having you there as a speaker. I don't know if we have time to talk about it, but maybe I'll ask you at the end when we get all personal with you, your best game show experience in your life, and we can hit on that a little later, but you know we've managed to really start to build a movement together of people who are buying into the importance of content experience, and trying to understand the different ways to do that, and I'm hoping it becomes a talk trigger for us in our business that people associate Con Ex with our company and as much as it's disconnected in some ways as well.
Jay: Completely agree, super excited for this year's edition of Content Experience event Con Ex, August 20th through the 22nd, in Toronto. The very least expensive tickets you can ever find are on offer right now until January 31st, so just for a couple more days, but regardless it's a spectacular value, so it's going to be the folks at Uberflip, and our team at Convince & Convert Consulting working together to produce this event this year. We're super excited about it. Like there's a lot of events out there about content marketing. We really are fired up about this event for a few different reasons. One, it's an intimate event, Randy. I mean we're talking about you know 750, 950 people, something like that, big enough to be really dynamic, but still small enough that you can interact with attendees, with speakers, and everybody kind of is having a similar experience, you're not spread out into 17 simultaneous breakout rooms, et cetera, which can get a little bit exhausting, so it's a great size.
The event is a blast. Randy mentioned it, and I'll say it on his behalf, the team at Uberflip do a terrific job of making things fun. Their talk trigger is what we call talk able attitude, and it's actually in the book that I'm writing right now, about how Uberflip has a particular attitude about everything, including the pink headbands, and that really manifests itself at the Con Ex event. It is an absolutely blast.
It's like most events are fun at some level, right? That's why people come to events, but this event is really fun, and that's why I like it. It's also super relevant. This event is curated and produced by Randy's team and me and my team, and so we feel like we know something about the content experience, and so this is an event that's produced for content marketers, and is produced by content marketers, and not all events can say the same thing. Really great speakers, no panels, there's no sessions that you're going to go to at Con Ex and say oh, that session sucked, or that was a bad speaker, like that will not happen. I promise you that will not happen, right? It's going to be solid.
It's in Toronto. If you haven't been to Toronto, you need to make that happen. It is one of the great cities in North America and really in the world. There's not nearly enough events for digital marketers in that region, and this is the leading event for our audiences there. If you haven't spent time in Toronto, you're going to love going to an event there. As I mentioned, it's a smoking deal, $499 US until the 31st, which is like almost criminally inexpensive, so I really encourage everybody to try to get up there to the event. It's going to be great. I'm going to be there. Randy's going to be there. Anna is doing a workshop, a really great workshop, on editorial calendars on the first day of the event. It's going to be fantastic.
Randy: Jay, that's an amazing plug, and it's become an amazing partnership between convince and Convert, Uberflip, and yourself, working on this. One of the most important things though that you forgot as you were listing all the benefits, is that it's in Toronto, but it's not in the winter in Toronto, right? I mean we're like ...
Jay: Good point.
Randy: We're like, and I'll speak to my, for my American friends right now in Fahrenheit, I was skiing last week, and it was like minus-three Fahrenheit. It was not pleasant. That was without the wind, but in the summer just ...
Jay: Hey, it's not even just Toronto. It was like ten in Jacksonville last week, so who knows? Like it's ... It's bad all over.
Randy: But the good news is in Toronto in the summer in August, it is gorgeous. I mean like high 80s, beautiful weather, and we have a great time together, and we learn from each other, which I think is one of the most important things that we need to continue to do as marketers is challenge each other, learn from each other, and share those best practices of how to create these amazing experiences.
Jay: Couldn't agree more. I hope everybody gets out to Con Ex. It's going to be a blast. How do they do that, Randy?
Randy: So they go to ConEx.UberFlip.com. As you said, there is an amazing price. I can't even give a promo code that's going to give a better price than where we're at right now, and when they get there they can also check some of the content that we've had in the past, great content from you, Jay, you know, great speaking opportunities to join us in the coming year. We're looking for speakers to round out, and I know a lot of the people who listen to this podcast are great thought leaders and practitioners, and I think that's the exciting thing is that we have that mix of speakers who are great thought leaders and great practitioners, so we can really learn the trends and also the tactics that have worked amongst marketers.
Jay, we promised we would get a little personal, and I always am intrigued what people do in their downtime, and I'm not saying you're a game show fanatic, but I know you have a soft spot for game shows, so first off without any bias to the answer, what is your favorite game show to watch these days on television?
Jay: I'm a big Price is Right guy. People say I look a little bit like Drew Carey, and I would totally do that job like if he ever decides to not do it. Like I would take that gig in two seconds. I would sell Convince & Convert in a hot minute to be the Price is Right host, probably for no other reason, there's probably no other circumstances I would sell it, but to be Price is Right host, in two seconds. Anna's out. I'm going straight to Price is Right.
Anna: You know I'm still here, right?
Jay: Oh, what, she's still on the show. Sorry. We'll delete that part, and so that's probably my favorite because I just think it's really fascinating the mixture of people they get on the show, and the variety of games is great, and it's just such an American staple, so that's probably my favorite, and I used to watch it even when I was a little kid if I was home sick for some reason or whatever.
Randy: So we alluded to this earlier, and people were probably wondering what in the world we were talking about, but I'll actually give you credit that I think you could do it, because I've seen you host a version of the Family Feud, we called it the Content Feud at con Ex last year ...
Jay: Yes.
Randy: And I can tell you that for some of the people who were contestants on that thing, they said it was one of their career highlights.
Jay: Well, that's a very thin career, I would say, but I was delighted to do it, and I think we're going to bring it back this year. I was actually voted most likely to be a game show host in high school, so I almost have kind of pulled it off thanks to you, Randy, and the Con Ex event, so while I probably won't get Drew Carey's job, I can live vicariously each year in Toronto in the summer.
Anna: Nice. One more question for you, Jay. So not many people know that you are a certified barbecue judge. This is correct, right? Yes, true. In your opinion, what makes drool-worthy ridiculously amazing barbecue?
Jay: Well, I can ... How much time do we have on the show? It depends on the meat, Anna. It depends on whether you're talking chicken, pork, or beef, or other, but let's just assume that we're going to go with pulled pork, so here's the thing.
The meat really matters, and I would say especially for pork because commercially raised pork that you get in the grocery store has essentially been bred over time to have less flavor, and more consistency, right, so it always kind of tastes the same, and it really doesn't taste like much of anything, so take the time, spend the money to get heritage good pork, and you will be blown away at the difference, so that doesn't matter whether it's pulled pork or ribs, or even just a pork chop you throw on a skillet at home, like good pork if you haven't had it is so much different than the pork you get at the grocery store, it will blow your mind, so I'd say the meat really matters, and the second that people don't talk about very much is the type of wood, so it's not just wood is wood is wood, right?
I mean apple tastes so much different, apple smoke tastes so much different than hickory smoke, versus mesquite smoke, which we're familiar with being from Arizona. It is a huge, huge differentiator, and so if people are just starting to get into barbecue, one thing to really play with is to actually do the same recipe with a different type of wood and then make notes.
Every single good competitive barbecue-er I know, and I'm fortunate to know a lot of them, all are very detail oriented, they have lots of spreadsheets, so they have a Google doc or an Excel doc, or a database where every cook, every time they make something, they write down okay, I used this wood, this temperature, this time, this finishing rub, this is how I cut it, this is how long I rested it, and then they change something everyday, so good barbecue is also really similar to a good content experience where you're always testing and you're always optimizing, right? It really is.
I mean the guys I talk to about barbecue, all they're really doing is A-B testing, but they don't know it's called that because that's our world, but they're basically A-B testing a sauce, they're A-B testing smoke, right? It's a very similar discipline actually.
Randy: What I love and what I think is wild about this personal interview part at the end is we could really merger two answers between the game show and the cooking because my kids these days, I don't know about any of you, but my kids are obsessed with watching these game shows that are all about cooking now, right, like these reality cooking shows like Cooked, and Chopped, or whatever they call them. I think you should adjust your lifetime goal to be a game show host of some sort of cook off, because then everything comes together and you could be A-B testing, so you're pretty much ready to go.
Jay: I would be super into that. If anybody listening has some sort of television production and you just let me know, we'll make it happen.
Randy: Okay. We're going to work on it in the background. In the meantime, I hope ...
Jay: Let's do a cooking show at Con Ex, this summer.
Randy: All right.
Jay: Let's do Iron Chef, and we'll have different sponsors or participating companies, or Uberflip clients, and they all have to make something out of mushrooms or something, then we'll judge it.
Randy: Listen, you're part of the production team this year, so I have way less say anymore in terms of whether or not that happens or not, so that's yet another reason to think about coming, no guarantees, but think about coming to Toronto, and in the meantime, I hope everyone listening to this podcast today was entertained, and will continue to check out more of our podcast episodes. Please check out Convince & Convert, or go to iTunes or Stitcher, search for the Content Experience Show, and then leave us feedback when you do in terms of how you've been enjoying the shift that we've made on this podcast and the direction that we continue to take it. In the meantime, I'm Randy Frisch from Uberflip. Thanks to Anna Hrach for joining me from Convince & Convert, and of the Convince & Convert party is complete with Jay Baer today. Thanks so much, Jay, for taking the time to check in.
Jay: Thanks guys. Congrats on the show. We'll see you in August.
 
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