Let Them Figure It Out
The goal of great content is to engage, educate, convince, and convert. Sometimes, but not always, that includes a salesperson. However, a good portion of the customer’s journey occurs long before the first contact.
Matt has spent years successfully creating and defining content for the modern buyer.
He knows that as buyers evolve, so does content. This now means infusing content throughout the funnel instead of restricting it to just the top. To accomplish this, a modern marketer needs to break down internal silos and pool together as much creative capital in one room as possible.
Content marketing is no longer just a marketer’s game; it belongs, in part, to all areas of the company that engage with customers, both new and returning. By reaching across the organization for ideas and dissemination, content can quickly become a transformative force for any organization.
In This Episode
- Why great content means letting customers learn about your product without a salesperson involved
- How the evolution of content is leading to content that exists beyond the top of the funnel
- Why pooling together a diverse set of marketing ideas means breaking down internal silos
- How personalization and personas lead to customers that trust you and come back for more content
Quotes From This Episode
“Content marketing was really the first foray into trying to get a complete view of the customer journey and figure out how to provide the most value to customers along the way.” —@mattbwessonPeople are starting to realize that the real value of content goes way beyond just resources. Click To Tweet
“Breaking down those boundaries is great for the customer, but it also makes marketing a lot more fun.” —@mattbwessonThe role of content is to produce a lot of diverse assets. Click To Tweet
“Personalization should be at the forefront of pretty much every asset you produce.” —@mattbwesson
“Personas are personalization, they’re just personalization at a scale that’s a lot more manageable.” —@mattbwesson
“We’ve seen that just putting somebody’s name in a video, engagement rates go up 30, 40%.” —@mattbwesson
“Everybody’s putting everything out there, all the time. So your ability to research customers, and figure out what matters to them, to find those angles, it’s much easier to do now than it’s ever been.” —@mattbwesson
- Matt Wesson on Twitter: @mattbwesson
- Content Marketing 2.0
- Vidyard’s Home for the Holidays
Content Pros Lightning Round
How do you relax, maybe give us an idea of what you’re watching right now on Netflix. I watch all the old stuff on Netflix. There’s something about The Office that will never get old to me.
|Randy:||Welcome to another episode of Content Pros. I am Randy Frisch with Uberflip, as always I’ve got Tyler Lessard joining me from Vidyard, and today we’re going to talk about content marketing, as always. But we’re going to talk about the different way content can be used, and I think many of us often get stuck in using content in one spot, because we thought about writing that piece of content to live in a certain location. But we don’t necessarily think about how it’s going to be used throughout our organization or throughout the buyer journey. Our guest today, who Tyler is going to tell you all about, is going to dig really deep with us into understanding how we can leverage our content.|
|Tyler:||I’m super excited to have Matt Wesson with us here today, the Director of Content and Creative at SalesLoft. So, I’ve known Matt for a little while now, and one of the things that I really like in digging into his background, and why I think he’s got a great perspective on this, is Matt you’ve done creative design, you’ve been an account executive on the sales side, you’ve done content marketing, and you sort of have an expanded role in creative, and I think those sorts of things give you a great perspective across the potential of content to not only be works of art, and great storytelling mediums, but also be used all the way through the buying journey. Right into the sales process.
So, we’re going to try to focus on some of those topics here today, and get your perspective. If you wouldn’t mind, maybe just introduce yourself, and a little bit of background on where you’re coming from.
|Matt:||Sure. Thanks for having me. As you said, my background is pretty diverse. I started as most recent graduates do, in an entry level sales role and realized pretty fast that, that wasn’t for me. So, I was in Atlanta at the time, and started looking for other opportunities in Tech, and that right when Pardot was coming up. So I jumped on Pardot right around the same time that content marketing was first becoming a thing. It was I think early 2008, so it was starting to become a phrase that was tossed around, but it was still in that stage where everybody was talking about it, and nobody knew how to do it.|
|Matt:||So, I worked at Pardot for about a year and a half, kind of building the content team, the content strategy there. Then, when we got acquired by Salesforce, it was actually perfect timing because Salesforce was transitioning really out of that first wave of content marketing. They had a ton of thought leaders that were publishing a blog post a week and speaking in all these different places, but hadn’t yet taken that next step into figuring out how content marketing is going to generate leads, let alone, how to tie content marketing to revenue. So it wound up being the perfect time for me to shift gears into the much larger organization.
So I moved to San Francisco, spent a few years building the content team at Salesforce. Then, just recently got a little homesick for the startup life and building teams again, and soon made a transition to SalesLoft, back in Atlanta.
|Tyler:||Let me jump back to that beginning, because I’m a firm believer that to understand where we need to go in the future, you have to understand the past, and really kind of how things evolved. You were at that interesting nexus, in those early years at Pardot, of that evolution of content marketing. Likely, both as a marketer, but also being in the industry as a provider of technology that helped to empower it. So I’m just curious from your perspective, what was the real impetus for the growth of content marketing?
What was the original intent, and why did it come to be what is now a very important pillar of every marketing program?
|Matt:||Sure, and I think it’s a testament to how much content has grown that it seems odd to remember a time that it wasn’t around. But I think prior to that it was kind of a Dark Ages of, you marketed in the way that got the most sales period, hard stop. That was all that really mattered. It didn’t really matter how those leads were coming in, how honest your marketing was, or even the value that you’re providing customers.
I would imagine if you looked at the data across a lot of Tech companies, the churn rates, and customer satisfaction were all abysmal prior to content becoming a thing. I think content grew out of that need to actually provide a lot more value to customers and build more of a relationship. It’s interesting now that it got defined as content marketing, I think the second you put a label on it, you put restrictions on it, but content marketing was really, in my opinion that first foray into trying to get a complete view of the customer journey, and figure out how to provide the most value to customers along the way.
I think it’s evolved to include a lot more than just the marketing department, but I think that focus on the customer, and that focus on providing value is where it came out of.
|Tyler:||Yeah, you know in reflecting on it, and I was doing a bit of this before the podcast, I recognized how substantially the buying journey has changed, and all of this is marketer’s talk about this, the buyer’s journey, and how things have changed in the last 10 years, but if you really think about it, how buyer’s interact with a brand, has substantially changed over that time. It’s more and more about self-education. They’re online, they’re devouring information, and resources prior to ever calling a sales rep or requesting a demo. To me, I think that’s been a huge impetus to why content marketing is now so important, because you need to get ahead of that buying process, to get your brand, to get your information in front of those audiences, who aren’t yet looking to buy a solution, they’re looking to understand the problems, and how they can solve them.
I think to your point, there’s a huge need to be able to deliver value at that stage. Randy, maybe I’ll flip it over to you for your perspective, there because you live in this world day in and day out, and is that kind of what has driven this rise, in what we need to mindful of in the future? Or are there other legs to that stool?
|Randy:||Yeah, you know Matt wrote a great article recently, and I know we’ll get to talking about it, but I think he’s hit on what’s starting to happen, which is really exciting, which is, people are thinking about, “How do I leverage this content at different stages of the buyer journey?” But it wasn’t always that way. I remember even when we were starting our company here at Uberflip, it’s probably about five years ago. We had just launched our MVP, and there’s another marketer, who’s a great content marketer by the name of Joe Turnup.
Joe was speaking I think at Content Marketing World, or something of the sort, and we made his list of like the Top 10 Upcoming Tools. But when he got up there, he framed us as the future Resource Center, right? I remember my co-founder and I, we saw this thing, part of us was really happy, and then we’re like, “That’s so boring, that’s such like a point solution.” That’s not what content’s for. It’s not just for the Resource Center, it’s like, don’t pigeon us. I have a good relationship with Joe, and I was like “What the fuck?” Like, come on. That is not what we are. He’s like, “No, but that’s the problem people have now. People are creating content, they’re figuring out where to put it, they need to organize it. You guys are going to make that great.”
We’re like, “No, we want to do so much more” But people weren’t ready, right? I think that’s changing. I don’t know if you’ve seen that Matt? Like you mentioned, you’ve been doing this even longer than we’ve been in business, but I think it’s changing, right?
|Matt:||Absolutely, and I think even for somebody like Joe, who’s been in content marketing since the very beginning, I think there’s always that impulse to try and put a box around things. I think that’s the way that organizations work, right? Like Marketing VPs, as I’m talking to two high level Marketing VPs, sorry, like to define boundaries on their team, and I think it was very easy to just say, “Oh, content marketing, it does this.” You need a Resource Center, you need E-books, you need blog posts. I think that worked really well for a long time, but I think people are starting to realize that the real value of content goes way beyond just resources.
I think it’s a very simplified way to think about the need that it’s addressing. To just say, “Oh hey, we’re providing resources to the customer that provide value and its located here.” I think the real value of a content team is those creative solutions, that they are designed to develop for customers. Those can be extended throughout the entire organization, and they should be. Everybody within a company, except maybe developers, and probably for a reason, are interacting with customers at some point. You know? … And the influence of content teams, a lot of times are still limited to that topple funnel area. I think that’s doing a disservice to not only content, but to the entire organization.
I think we’re slowly starting to see that view of content as just top of funnel resources, starting to expand as people recognize that, that value that a content team can provide goes way, way, way beyond just top of funnel.
|Randy:||I love how you called it that box that marketers sometimes get put in. That’s funny, this is maybe about six months ago, I was in the office of a Fortune 100 Company, a pretty senior member of their marketing team, and they were describing how they were going to invest to now have, not just a social team, but a content marketing team. They’re also going to have their other team, and they’re going to invest in these different disciplines.
They were saying it as a very positive thing, which it was, but the flip side I was like, “Yeah, but like that’s not how you have to think about it, like everyone just has to work together.” Right? I literally got up on a whiteboard in the room, and I drew an A on the far left, and a B on the far right, and the idea is, “How do you get people from A to B?” “What of content, and social, and all these other disciplines are you going to sprinkle along that path?”
I think you’ve done a great job, in some of the visualizations I’ve seen you do Matt, that show that in a very similar way.
|Matt:||Sure, and I think the part that interests most of this expanded role of content is just that. Those interactions that take place when you break down those boxes. So I think since we’re on a podcast and we’re external, I would say it’s great for the customer, it’s 100% for the customer’s benefit. But if I’m being really honest, it’s also really fun as a marketer and for the entire company really, when you break down those barriers that you put up artificially. Because I think the more ideas you get in a room, the more diverse set of experiences, the more connections you’re able to make, the more creativity, and the best solution will come out of those more diverse meetings, and more diverse group of ideas. I think breaking down those boundaries is great for the customer, but it also makes marketing a lot more fun.|
|Randy:||This is making a lot of sense to Tyler, it’s making a lot of sense to me, because we’re living this everyday. We have a number of different types of marketers who joined this podcast. So maybe you can help us start with just a very basic question about using content at different stages. When you’re thinking about it from that perspective, do you think, “Okay, let’s create one asset, and use it at every stage, or let’s create content for different stages?”|
|Matt:||I think it obviously depends on the situation. I think every company is going to be a little bit different. If you have a shorter sales cycle, your ability to extend a certain asset deeper into the funnel is a lot higher than a more complex sales cycle. But I think in software in general, it’s usually in my experience, a mistake to try and fit one asset across the entire sales cycle, because those needs are different, right?
I think breaking it down by those different stages, and then working really closely with the sales team, you’ll start to assess a very different set of needs that you didn’t really know were there. I think it’s super easy to say, “Oh hey, we’ve got an e-book that ties such and such a feature to such and such a problem, let’s just keeping spanning that out throughout the sales cycle.” I think that’s kind of where content marketing was maybe five, six years ago. Nowadays, you’re starting to see it change where the customer wants an e-book when they’re learning about your company. When they want to learn a feature set, they probably want to see a video, an in depth demo with the sales team.
I think before they were getting that in some way, shape, or form, but now that content’s involved in it, they’re getting it in a way that they can more easily understand. They’re getting it in a way that’s more attractive, they’re getting it in a way that’s better positioned. I think the role of content to me, is to produce a lot of diverse assets. I think if you’re just producing one and trying to extend it through the sales cycle, you’re probably still providing value to the audience, but you’re probably falling pretty short of where a content team could be delivering value to the company.
|Randy:||That makes a lot of sense, and it would be great to dig a little deeper next on how you’re structuring your team to go about that. Are you creating content in different groups, or what have you? Before we do that, we’re going to throw out own call of action in here. A couple of our sponsors, you’ll hear from, and we’ll be right back with Matt Wesson on Content Pros.|
|Tyler:||Welcome back to Content Pros. We’re here with Matt Wesson, and Matt I want to pick up on something you talked about and start to extend this through into what it means to produce content throughout the whole sales cycle, and how that’s influencing the kinds of people and the kinds of resources that companies need these days. So, one of the things from my perspective, I used to think about the content marketing as the marketer that never sleeps. Right? You can produce great content that’s out there all the time, generating interest, and bringing people in 24 hours a day. Then I started to think about it as, the sales rep that never sleeps. You know, thinking about, content has to evolve to be a more integrated part of that sales cycle and it has to create conversation because of the way buyer’s journeys are changing.
But equally important to me, in my world is, I need to create content that’s creating a more personal and emotional connection with those audiences, because if they don’t feel interested, and stimulated from what you’re producing, they’re not going to feel a sense of urgency to react. It’s the old sales world, right? You create a personal and emotional connection, and people are more likely to respond and want to engage.
So assuming you agree with that, and if you don’t, please chime in. But I’d love to hear your perspective on how does that influence the kinds of content we need to be thinking about throughout that buyer’s journey? Not only the type of content, but the formats, and is it interactive or not? Is it visual, is it text based? How do you think about that, and how does it influence the resources you need?
|Matt:||Sure, and I think you’d be hard pressed to find a marketer these days that doesn’t agree that more personal is more effective. That’s certainly been my experience. But I think when we assess what needs to be produced, especially in regards to personalization, I think it’s always a cost benefit analysis of us. I think most marketing organizations have some sort of account based initiative, and in that case, you’re going after much larger, much higher value accounts, and I think at that stage the cost benefit of the work you want to put in vs what you’re getting out, it’s worth your time to spend, to produce custom assets across the board for an account like that.
When we have a top tier account, we go really into the weeds with how much we personalize it. We use Vidyard to do custom personalized videos, we produce landing pages, we produce sales decks, we produce all of these custom assets that get delivered to target accounts. I think that’s the high end of the spectrum, in terms of personalization and assets that are produced. I think that depends on the company, where that value line is. But I think in my experience, when you have named accounts that usually means they’re high value enough that you need to go and deliver the full sweep of content and assets that you could create.
So tracking back from there, I think personalization should be at the forefront of pretty much every asset you produce, it just gets a little bit more distanced from a particular audience member or user. I think paring it back from there, you’re going to look at different personas. I think personas get a bad wrap, but personas are personalization, they’re just personalization at a scale that’s a lot more manageable. So it’s really unmanageable for us to take 5,000 accounts and do personalized e-books, but it’s super manageable for us to produce five different e-books targeted to our five key personas.
I think the cost benefit analysis of that, obviously it’s usually going to be lower value accounts that are looking for those e-books, so it warrants slightly less personalization. But we still put that effort in, to make sure whatever they’re getting, they can look at it and say, “Oh yeah, that’s absolutely relevant to me.” I think my worst nightmare is to have a customer or prospect look at a piece of content, and not get value from it. I think we’ve all been in that scenario, where you get suckered in by click bait, or you get suckered in by the pretty cover of an e-book, and you open it up, and it’s in no way relevant, or the quality is low.
Usually, you never go back to those companies. I think avoiding that is all about making sure that the assets you’re delivering are personalized.
|Tyler:||So what about the angle of, and I’m going to play off of personalization, and there’s personalization with respect to really tailoring the content. But the other side that, that really fascinates me right now, is just creating content in general that is more personal and human, that has a greater chance of connecting with somebody on a more human level.
I’ll harken back to, one of our most successful content campaigns last year, was a holiday video that we did. It had nothing to do with our products, it had nothing to do specifically with a problem, but we produced a fun, happy holidays, greeting video that we had a lot of fun with. Right? It was creative, it was interesting, we did some of that personalized video that you mentioned, and the response to it was outstanding. Not only the number of people who engaged in it, but it actually led to a huge amount of pipeline, because those people who responded engaged in a conversation, and next thing you know they were talking to a sales rep about what we were doing.
|Randy:||I think it’s ’cause you look so good in your outfit, Tyler.|
|Tyler:||Well, you know what …|
|Randy:||Everyone wants to speak to content right now.|
|Tyler:||…I do make a good elf, I’ll tell you that. But that stuff is I think really interesting right now. Randy, you guys do a great job of this as well, I get a lot of content from you guys, and it’s not the same old written e-book. It’s a great variety of content, that it’s got humans in it, some of it’s a video, some of it’s interactive, some of it’s in full graphics, and that stuff just to me generates a more human and visceral response that sales reps are always used to trying to do.|
|Matt:||I would absolutely agree with you, and it’s perfect that you reference your holiday video as the example for that, because somebody recently asked me about this yesterday, and your holiday video from Vidyard was the example that I used. It was something that a few people on our marketing team, we just happened to be on a list of customers that got it. The second that email came to our inbox, we were sharing it, and we were extending the Vidyard brand to different aspects of SalesLoft that had never seen it before, and we were having conversations with customer support reps, that we’ve been ignoring, just saying, “This is amazing, you guys are awesome.” I think, to me, that’s the most fun part of content, is finding those pieces, that really get people excited, and get that visceral reaction.
I think personalization is a huge part of it. So Vidyard’s an amazing platform for personalizing videos, and I think we’ve seen that just putting somebody’s name in a video, engagement rates go up 30, 40%. You can actually see, where they go and the re watch it. Just to say, “Wait, wait, wait, was that me?” To see that engagement spike, and then to see that translate into them reaching out or them having a conversation that they otherwise wouldn’t have, I think is the best of both worlds, in my mind. Because you’re getting the business result that you were ultimately going for, but it’s also fun to produce assets like that.
I told my team, when we first shifted to account based, that it’s not something that’s scary. I love Christmas, not because I like getting presents, but because I like to give really personalized presents, and see the look on my family’s face when they open it. That’s all that account based and extreme personalization is at the marketing level. Is being able to give somebody a really kick ass gift that’s going to blow their mind. So to be able to do that as a career, I think that’s the best possible shift for content marketers. I think people are a little nervous about putting that level of personalization in, but they absolutely shouldn’t be.
I think with Uberflip, and Vidyard, and a whole host of other tools, it’s so easy to do at this point, and the value of it is just … I can just talk for days about how much I advocate for personalizing.
|Randy:||Now maybe you can give us an example. I’m sure Tyler and I both appreciate that call out, but outside of technology, what are some of the more creative ideas, because I think that’s one of the strengths you have is creativity. That you’ve been able to pull into an account based marketing strategy, right? Because some people listening maybe saying, “Okay, I need to do something that’s really going to stand out, before I can get budget for a tool, or something of the sort.”|
|Matt:||Sure, I think that’s one of the best parts of content, is it’s not really restricted by budget necessarily, or tools. I think as long as you’re willing to think outside the box, and you’ve got a few hours to dedicate towards a certain initiative, you can do really good content marketing. I’ve seen some incredible pieces of direct mail, and really outside the box campaigns, that have definitely resonated with us, and with our customers, and we’ve seen them talking about. It all comes down to learning about your customer.
We had somebody that sent us, at SalesLoft, a tiny little Porsche, because our CEO bought a Porsche when he finally had enough money. It was his life long dream, and he posted about it on social here, a few times. They sent us a tiny little RC Porsche, with a cute little note about helping us continue to grow as a company. This was awhile back, when we were still growing, still pretty small. But just the fact that the put the time and effort into looking at, not only our social feeds, but our CEO’s social feeds, I think really stuck out to us, and it’s something that’s so easy to do. It’s the upside of the social media world, right? Everybody’s putting everything out there, all the time. So your ability to research customers, and figure out what matters to them, to find those angles, it’s much easier to do now than it’s ever been.
|Tyler:||So who do you hire, what kind of resources do you need to execute on this? Because we’re talking about the modern content marketer, not being just a blog writer, right? As a lot of people have thought about them in the past, or somebody who writes e-books. Right? ‘Cause we’re talking about videos, we’re talking about being creative enough to think about, “Hey, a tiny little Porsche is actually a piece of content that I could leverage in an outbound campaign to somebody.” I love the fact that we’re talking about these in the context of content marketing, because I think it’s exactly where it needs to go, and those are the folks that are creative enough, and are used to putting themselves in the customer’s shoes and going, “What would really stimulate a response, or get them excited or interested and how can I deliver value?”
I’m curious, how do you staff for this? How do you get people who can think in this way, and bring a new edge to content marketing?
|Matt:||Sure, and I think you unknowingly brought up one of the most interesting points about hiring for a team like this, and it’s that it’s a two way street. You can hire the most talented person in the world, and if you as a manager don’t have the right mindset to be open to these things, and to recognize the value, it’s not going to work out. One of my favorite stories, is that Paul McCartney and George Harrison shared the same grade school music teacher. Which is cool, in and of itself, but that music teacher gave them both a D, because they didn’t fit the traditional view of what a musician should or could be. I think that’s what I see happen across marketing teams that I talk to, is there’s somebody who’s super talented and they’re itching to get outside the box, but they have a manager who’s not necessarily willing or comfortable with trying out a new initiative.
It’s much easier to allocate, spend to banner ads, if that’s what you know vs. sending a little RC Porsche that might or might not get a response. So I think the first side of it is definitely looking at yourself as a manager, and figuring out, “Am I open to this, am I creating an environment that’s breeding the best ideas?” I think that’s one half of it.
I think the other is that it’s really not hard to hire for a skilled content marketer. I think in creative roles, there’s more of a chance to actually see the work, than any other role that you’d be hiring for. I think traditionally you’d get a resume, and from that resume you’d try and deduce, “Oh man, could this person do what I need them to do?” But I think content’s great in the sense that you can just ask them. If their portfolio doesn’t answer the questions that you have, I think it’s totally within the realm of possibility to say, “Hey, can you write a blog post in X, Y, and Z style, on such and such a topic?” Or if you’re hiring a designer, “Hey, can you show me what an info graphic would look like for our company?”
I think people tend to rush into hiring those creative roles, because they’re not familiar with what assets or what skills really make somebody great in those roles, but I think regardless of your role, or your creative expertise, you know what’s going to resonate with an audience, and you know what skills you can bring. So taking it slower, and making sure that the people you’re hiring can actually deliver those goals that you have. That’s the key to hiring a team that’s going to be able to sustain a high level of creativity over a long period of time.
|Randy:||That’s great advice, Matt. It’s interesting here, we feel like we just brought on our first full time ABM marketer, right? So we had people helping out with it, but decided to hire our first full time person, and we ended up, we posted the job publicly, but we ended up hiring internally, and we ended up promoting one of our Senior B2C people… They had been on the front lines. They understood what was working, what was not working, from a content perspective, from a copy perspective, from the creative ideas of what we were sending out, and I think sometimes you got to say, “Look, outside of the traditional definition of say a marketer.” Right? We’ve heard so many people who have come on to this podcast, who started their careers in journalism, or other areas, and made that shift.
I think you got to kind of remain open from that perspective. Just a funny side story, talking about these creative ideas. I came in at like 7:30 one morning, and on my desk there was this really cryptic box, that looked kind of scary, and I think I had just read about some terrible thing that had happened with an employee somewhere else, and I’m like, “Oh my God, is someone going to kill me?” Paranoia took over right away. Sure enough, it was this internal candidate trying to show an ABM Campaign, landing on my desk. So, it was not a bomb, but definitely a creative approach.
Anyways, we got a couple minutes just to wrap up here, and we always like to get to know a little bit about our guests. Maybe you can just tell us a little bit about where people can find you outside of work. From a social perspective, outlet of choice, are you one to post on Instagram? Are you more on LinkedIn? Where do people find, the real you?
|Matt:||I think Medium is probably the best place to find me. So MattBWesson on Medium, and then I share pretty often on Twitter. I had the benefit when I was worked at Pardot of being able to market to marketers, which meant that the Pardot blog was often my creative outlet. But now that I’ve expanded that target audience, I was lacking a place to try and convey my ideas to other marketers, I moved it all to Medium. Tend to post once or twice a week on there, just random ideas, thoughts, on where the industry is headed. But I keep that pretty updated.|
|Randy:||Fantastic, yeah and the post that we had talked about earlier, the Content Marketing 2.0. I think I had found on there myself, so definitely some great stuff from you there. What about outside of the stuff that you’re passionate about? How do you relax, maybe give us an idea of what you’re watching right now on Netflix.|
|Matt:||Actually, I watch all the old stuff on Netflix. There’s something about The Office that will never get old to me. So an episode of The Office at the end of the day is probably one of my favorite things. But I’m based out of Boulder, and I generally tend to fill most of the Boulder stereotypes. So if I’m not training for a marathon, I’m definitely at a craft brewery somewhere.|
|Randy:||Fantastic, fantastic. Well awesome, well hopefully Matt, you, me, and Tyler will find a good microbrewery somewhere soon and catch up in person. But we really enjoyed having you on the podcast here. For everyone tuning in, this has been the Content Pros Podcast. We’re part of the Convince and Convert Network of Podcasts, and just a reminder that if you’re trying to up your game as a content marketer, that Convince and Convert is currently running the content marketing class.com. @ContentMarketingClass.com is the domain, rather, and that’s run by Jay Bear, who’s really helping marketers as a whole think of how to leverage content, in many of the ways that Matt taught us today. How do we use it throughout that entire buyer journey, and think of content as a wait to truly interact with our audiences? Matt, thank you, and on behalf of Tyler, at Vidyard, I’m Randy at Uberflip, and this has been Content Pros Podcast.|