About The Content Experience Show:
Welcome to The Content Experience Show where content experience is the new content marketing. It’s not only about reaching our audiences where they are, but engaging them with a personalized experience of meaningful, useful content that they’ll take with them over time. The guests on the Content Experience Show share strategies, tips, and real-world examples of how they’re taking their content marketing to the next level and providing their current and prospective customers with a true content experience. This isn’t just a trend. It’s a movement.
It doesn't get any better for content marketers. They present a balanced, insightful discussion of current trends and ask all the right questions. Their guest list is a "Who's Who" of content professionals. Outstanding.Jared Johnson Piano
I love listening to marketing podcasts and this one is on my must-listen to list. Very knowledgable hosts and topical discussions.The Marketing Book Podcast
In the final “Pardon the Marketing” episode of the Content Experience Show, podcasting pros Randy Frisch and Anna Hrach trade takes on podcasting trends.
Please Support Our Sponsors:
Huge thanks to our amazing sponsors for helping us make this happen. Please support them; we couldn't do it without their help! This week:
How Two Podcasting Pros Consume Podcasts
We’ve got good news and bad news. The Content Experience Show, sadly, is nearing its final few episodes. The good news is that Randy and Anna have teamed up to bring you one final “Pardon the Marketing” installment before signing off.
In this special episode, Randy and Anna challenge each other to answer tough questions on content marketing before the buzzer runs out. This round’s theme gets a bit meta: podcasting. And despite being co-hosts of a podcast themselves, Randy and Anna see eye-to-eye less often than you think.
Theorizing about what podcast consumers enjoy is one thing; hearing what two podcasting pros actually enjoy is another thing entirely. You’ll hear their takes on topics like episode length, listening style, fiction versus non-fiction podcasts, the right way to braid paid sponsorships into your audio, the appeal of guest-centric versus host-only shows, and lots more. And be sure to chime in on social using #pardonthemarketing!
In This Episode
- The merits of both short- and long-form podcasts.
- Why some podcast listeners subscribe and commit, while others browse for one-off episodes every time they tune in.
- When, where, and how Randy and Anna listen to podcasts.
- Why some listeners prefer guest-centric podcasts versus podcasts focused on recurring hosts.
- Why advertising in podcasting might not feel as annoying to your listeners as you might think.
- A peek at what’s next for Randy and Anna.
Quotes From This Episode
“I love long podcasts, like two and a half-hour-long podcasts, because there’s only so much music you can really listen to when you’re running.” – @annabananahrach
I very much choose the podcasts I listen to depending on who that guest might be. Click To Tweet
“I am most frequently listening to podcasts when I cannot do anything else, or I’m doing some sort of monotonous or repetitive tasks.” – @annabananahrach
See you next week!
Welcome to the Content Experience Podcast. I’m Randy Frisch. Anna, who’s going to tell them the tough news here? Who’s going to tell all of our loyal listeners? We’re now like 220-plus episodes in, is it going to be you or is it going to be me? Who’s going to share this tough blow?
Not it. That’s fair. That’s fair. All right. Why don’t we break the news to them together? So this podcast has been something really special for me. This is not the end, but this is the beginning of a wind down of this podcast, and something that I’m extremely … I think probably both of us are very grateful to Jay Baer for this opportunity, because Jay called me and said, “We need someone to continue this podcast after the first 12 episodes,” with the idea that there would be many more to come. There’s been over 200 more since then. And over that time, I’ve gone to speak to amazing marketers, learned so much, and have amazing co-hosts, including most recently yourself over the last year and a half?
Yeah, a year and a half now. Yeah. Ditto. I mean, so incredibly grateful to Jay. I mean obviously I get to work with Jay on a pretty much daily basis, but I remember I was a guest like two years ago, and it was so much fun. This, fun fact, was the first podcast I had ever done as a guest. And then it was so much fun. And then there was an opening, and Jay had mentioned that basically I’d be filling the seat as co-host, and I wish that there was video for how high I was jumping that day, because this has literally been some of the most fun I’ve had over the last year and a half. So it is insanely bittersweet.
Listen, even Friends came to an end, even Friends came to an end. The Office came to an end. All great things have their final episode. This is not that final episode.
We have three more after this, I believe?
We do. We have three more amazing episodes left. So, this is a little bit of fun.
But this is the last version of Pardon the Marketing, which is something we started about a year ago maybe?
Yeah. You had this great idea to just jump on. Actually, it was sort of out of necessity. A guest bailed on us that day-
… at the super last minute, and we obviously have to meet a recording schedule, and Randy had this great idea.
Yeah. So we decided that we would go back to back on a, timer very much like you see on Pardon the Interruption, which is the show I think on ESPN, and it’s done in a fun way with the timer countdown. We’ve done it on a timer. It’s very low budget, but it’s made it through.
And let’s roll the last episode of Pardon the Marketing together. Here we go, Anna.
But not the last episode of Con Ex.
Not the last episode of Con Ex.
There’s more to come, with a big conference to come too.
So lots more to come, and we will hear now the top, I think about 10 hot topics around the idea of podcasts, a meta episode for you.
Welcome to the Content Experience Show. This is a special edition, Anna. You know what it’s called, it’s called Pardon the Marketing. We ripped this off from ESPN, and the good news is this is the last version we’re doing this. So if they come sue us, there’s only so many that we’ve done, right?
All right. Who’s going first here? Should we remind everyone the rules in case they haven’t listened before?
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, we each basically get a subject, and we get two minutes to talk about the subject each. The other person can chime in if they like, but basically we flip flop back and forth. We give our thoughts on the very specific topic. And Randy, today’s topic is …
Podcasts. It is our last … We’re in the stretch run of the final episodes of the Con Ex Podcast, so we figured only right that we talk about podcasts. And with that in mind, let’s hit the first topic. Do you have the high tech buzzer that we did not invest in yet?
I do. I totally have the high tech buzzer. It’s called my iPhone set to a two-minute timer.
Amazing. Amazing. I can’t wait to see what type of notification tone you’ve chosen. All right. You want to hit me first?
Absolutely. All right Randy, so you have two minutes. The subject is podcast, and what I want to know is do you prefer short form or long form podcast? So basically super short 20-minute podcasts or two and a half-hour podcasts?
So I think I would have historically told you the answer is short, because my life, I just don’t have these long breaks to sit there and listen to a podcast. And as a result, I want those short bits of information that I can listen to on the fly. That said, I’ll tell you right now, my wife, and I on our long drives, because we’re in the summer, we’ll drive up to a cottage or something like that, we’ve been listening to some longer podcasts. Loving the latest Conan podcasts. Have you listened to them?
Ooh. A little bit.
It’s Conan interviewing these really interesting people. The last one we listened to is Howard Stern. I think it was like a 90-minute interview, just him and Howard Stern. But it’s because Conan and some of these other people are such great interviewers, that they can carry something on for that type of distance.
But generally I think when I’m looking for subject expertise, you know, my wife probably isn’t going to listen with me, and in those cases I’m probably looking for something under 30 minutes. How about you?
You know what is so annoying is how much we agree with each other. Annoying in the best way possible. But yeah, if I’m looking for information and I need to know something, I want it to be like 25, 30 minutes. It has to be pretty quick and to the point.
But we are getting into, my husband and I are getting back into half marathon training, and I love long podcasts, like two and a half hour long podcasts, because there’s only so much music you can really listen to when you’re running. And it’s nice to have that conversation to either distract you or just to focus on, or you get to learn really cool things and have dedicated time to do it, because how often do you actually have two hours to just focus on one thing? But yeah, same thing, if I am listening while I’m not running, I’ll have to break up the episodes. But I actually pretty much like both. I don’t know if that’s a cop-out or a cheat on the response, but-
This is the balance [inaudible 00:06:46] on that balance. We’re on the timer.
All right, so we’re on to our next timer. This time you get two minutes, Anna. Our next topic kind of relates to the previous one because we’ve got to find balance. Do you subscribe or do you search for something as a one-off or kind of go back and search for that content that you love?
I’m mainly a subscriber. I have a few really dedicated podcasts that I listen to that I love, and I actually check in every week, or kind of binge them if I’ve lapsed behind.
One of my favorites is My Favorite Murder. People are going to think I’m a psycho now, but it’s actually one of the most popular podcasts out there. So hopefully we have other Murderenos who listen to us as well.
But yeah, I’m a subscriber. Every once in a while I’ll look for, like if I need some specific information I’ll look for something, but I like my kind of tried and true favorites. What about you, Randy?
Interesting. I’ll be honest, I’m not a subscriber. I’m more of a search for something depending on the mood that I’m in. And sometimes I get overwhelmed when I’m subscribing to too many things, even on Netflix, when I start favoriting all these things, and then I’m like, “Oh my God, I don’t want to watch all of that actual TV.” That just seems depressing to me to prioritize all these things.
And I guess because my podcasts are obviously a mix, I told you I listen to Conan, obviously not necessarily going to expand my professional career that way, but I think that that mindset for me is more of let it be a guilty pleasure still.
Yeah, I could, I could see that, for sure. I do get overwhelmed as well. I will subscribe to like five podcasts and then realize that I’m not even listening to them, basically I get that sort of like, “Hey, are you still interested in subscribing? If so, we’ll keep downloading them for you. But basically this is a waste of space on your phone.”
And so, yeah, I do the same thing, where I subscribe to a swath of podcasts, and then I end up taking myself off because I just … It’s a lot of time. It’s a lot of dedicated time. Agreed.
Absolutely, absolutely. Look at this, we are very rarely not cut off by a timer on this show, but this is one of the times where I think we’re ready to roll to the next topic. Is it like a countdown of five, four, three, two…
Look at that.
Just for the record, Anna’s got the timer, and I was just feeling it. I was just feeling it. Okay. I’m up next, right? Are you going to hit me with something?
Yes. All right. So you kind of already alluded to this one, but let’s go ahead and go with: Do you prefer fiction based podcasts or non-fiction based podcasts? So do you love the stories and the storytelling or do you like the real life, sort of newsy documentary style?
Okay. So on this one, let’s do this as a special. Give me 60 seconds, because then I’m going to follow up with a related follow-up one. So give me 60 seconds on the clock here.
So I still, and maybe this is because … People are going to look at me and say, “Well, you’re not listening to the right podcasts,” but I need all my senses going for out-of-reality. Right? When I watch Stranger Things on Netflix, I am in a different world, because it’s the sound, it’s the visuals, it’s everything that they do. And I feel like I need that with my podcast.
So I am definitely the type of person who’s going to listen to a podcast that’s going to be more informative. It’s going to give me facts, where I’m going to listen, I’m going to listen to opinion, I’m going to listen to editorial. But I don’t really like to go into this fantasy world when I’m listening to a podcast. How about you on that one?
Yeah, I think I like the more real life, because My Favorite Murder, Last Podcast on the Left, they’re all mostly sort of reality based things. I tried to get into Lore, I don’t listen to it as much as … Oh, look at that.
Oh, that was 60 seconds, because I only gave you 60. But you get to keep going here because the related topic, this is why I split this one up, is: Are the podcasts you’re listening to more often for work or for pleasure?
Ooh, okay. So…
This is similar to that fiction or non-fiction, but are you looking for fun, or are you looking for education?
Fun. I need, yeah … Well, but then sometimes when I’m really stuck on something or if I look something up, it’s … You know what it is, I subscribe to fun, I search for work or productivity things. It’s always a very specific intent in mind. So a little bit of both, but subscribing is definitely fun. But what about you? I mean, you already kind of alluded it’s fun.
You know what, to be honest, I would say that when I’m with my wife, if we’re listening to something together, it’s more for fun, you know, like the Conan one, I gave that example, is definitely for fun. When I’m on my own I … And it’s funny, even when I go on vacation, my wife has this fun book, and I’ve got this, you know, How To Succeed In The Tech Startup World, right? She’s like, “Can you not just take a break?” And I just, I always am just trying to advance a little bit in terms of knowledge.
So I felt the buzzer go there. We’re actually, we’ve got a number of more hot topics on podcasting. What we’re going to do first, we’re going to take a short break here on the podcast. We’ll hear from some of our sponsors who are sponsoring podcasts, and then we will be right back.
Hi Friends, this is Jay Baer from Convince and Convert reminding you that this show, the Con Ex Show Podcast, is brought to you by Uberflip, the number one content experience platform.
Do you ever wonder how content experience affects your marketing results? Well, you can find out in the first ever Content Experience Report where Uberflip uncovers eight data science backed insights to boost your content engagement and your conversions. It’s a killer report and you do not want to miss it. Get your free copy right now at uberflip.com/conexshowreport. That’s uberflip.com/conexshowreport.
And the show is also brought to you by our team at Convince & Convert Consulting. If you’ve got a terrific content marketing program but you want to take it to the very next level, we can help. Convince & Convert works with the world’s most iconic brands to increase the effectiveness of their content marketing, social media marketing, digital marketing, and word-of-mouth marketing. Find us at convinceandconvert.com.
Hey everyone. I wanted to take just a few seconds today to talk to you about Emma. Emma is an email marketing platform that helps you connect with your audience and grow lasting relationships. They’re awesome. They offer really intuitive tools to build and automate emails with powerful segmentation and reporting too. And the big difference is they’re focused on you. Between their award-winning support and their pro services team, they make sure every customer has success with their email marketing. Seriously, they are amazing. You can learn more and request a demo today at myemma.com/jayisawesome. Again, that’s myemma.com/jayisawesome.
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Content Experience Show Podcast. This is a very meta episode, so as you already know, we are playing our final version of Pardon the Marketing, and now it’s Randy’s turn. So we are back, and let’s get even more meta.
So Randy, you have two minutes, and I would like to hear your thoughts on podcast sponsors.
Oh, you mean like the sponsors that we just heard from in the middle there that completely broke up the show?
Those ones, those ones, right. Yeah, it’s tricky. I don’t know what the right answer is, right? And I think about this outside of podcasts sometimes. When I go to movie theaters, I hate sitting through the advertisements before the movie starts, right? Like-
What about the trailers though?
Well, the trailers I love.
Right? I mean, if the ad was for another podcast, then I’d find it interesting, right? Then you’re all of a sudden advertising for one podcast after another.
I think I’m still more at the point where I’m interested in the way we do it, Anna, like where we have the sponsor in the middle breaking up the podcast, for one reason. It kind of helps break up that show a bit, and it also gives an opportunity for the listener to decide, “Do I want to come back after this sponsor?” So it gives them an understanding that we’re taking a bit of a break, “Do I want to continue?” So there’s definitely a risk there, but I think as long as you line up with a good cliffhanger, as long as the conversation is great.
How about you? Where do you like your PR?
I mean, honestly, I think it’s just my advertising background, but I am completely in a lot of ways tolerant to the fact that most of our entertainment world runs on advertising. So for example, we wouldn’t have TV without commercials, because that’s how things get sponsored.
So I actually really don’t mind sponsorship. There’s a lot of time and effort that people don’t see that goes into creating a podcast. I mean, editing alone is hours of work. Recording is hours of work. So it’s just nice to have sponsors behind that and help back it and help support it.
The only thing I will say though is I feel like every podcast is sponsored by MeUndies, like every single podcast. I-
They’re a very broad target market.
Yes. I mean, to be fair, everybody, sort of. And then, I feel like …
Aw, we’re going to have to hold off on that. Cut by the buzzer. But I’ll let you keep going on a different topic here. This is one where I won’t take any offense depending on your answer, but: Do you enjoy podcasts with amazing guests, or just the host?
Ooh, okay. I think it depends.
Who do you like to hear from? Do you love those ones where there’s this dynamic, amazing host who’s carrying the show, or do you need that balance I guess?
I think it depends on the subject matter, honestly. Because obviously the Content Experience Show is guest-based, where we have someone on every week, and we get to hear cool new things, and talk about things, and have discussions. And it really opens up this whole world of topics that we can talk about. And so, I love that format when people can actually come in and contribute to the conversation.
But I’m also a big fan of host only shows, when appropriate. So, and again, not to keep bringing it up, but My Favorite Murder is typically a single … or it just has the two hosts and they go back and forth. But then there’s also another series that I love called Terrible, Thanks For Asking where they hear from people, or even This American Life has guests on and you hear from people. So I really think it depends on the subject and the format and kind of what you’re talking about.
Nice. Well, listen, as people are listening to this podcast on their devices, you can play along with this game by the way, if you don’t remember from previous episodes. On any of these questions, just use the hashtag, and let us know what your preference is on each of these topics. The last one being: Do you like hosts like Anna and myself, or do you like hearing from amazing guests? We hope you like a balance of both on this show.
What do you like though? You haven’t answered yet.
So for me, I would say that I tune in for the guest. When I tune into a podcast, as I said, a lot of them I’m looking for editorial based or interest based. And I very much choose the podcasts I listen to depending on who that guest might be. So yeah, that’s definitely going to weigh in for my overall decision. And there you go.
All right. Who’s up next? I can’t even keep track here.
It’s over to you. So you get two minutes to-
Okay, hit me.
All right. Your favorite podcast player, so where are you actually listening to, what platform? And on what device?
Okay, sure, sure. So I would say, first off, I’m generally listening on my iPhone with my ear buds, on the go. If I’m in the car actually, then I’m obviously just using the Bluetooth to hook it up, because I do listen to a lot of podcasts on longer drives.
In terms of player, I recently switched over to Spotify.
And you know what, first off, I found iTunes just very bulky and not easy to navigate and easy to understand what’s coming up next and everything like that. I toyed around with Stitcher a bit, just couldn’t fall in love with it, even though I thought it was nicer than iTunes, to be honest. But it just felt like another app that I needed, and I’m already using Spotify for so much.
So one of the things that I now love is I have the Apple Card Play in my car, where my phone is connected, I can toggle over to Spotify. And what I love there is they’re making recommendations for me on the fly that are not just my music now, but also Spotify … Sorry, that are also podcasts. That’s what I love is, is when I’m trying to think what content I want next, Spotify can recommend songs for me, you know, sometimes songs that my kids are listening to, which is frustrating, or ultimately some sort of interesting podcast.
How about you? What’s your player?
Man, I’m sorry, I am totally, not to be in the cult of Apple, but everything I own is Apple, and it all integrates really well. But I will say that Apple does not integrate with other things. So I’ve listened to the Podcast App through Sonos, and it just doesn’t work. It doesn’t like it. It cuts it off. It does weird things. But I like that you’re just listening to podcasts, and then baby shark will jump on your speakers. That visual is kind of giving me a laugh.
That’s a fun way to end it. That’s a fun way to end it. All right. I am back at you for the next few minutes. And I’m going to ask I guess two questions in one. I’m going to give you time to hit on both of these.
First is: When are you listening to podcasts most often? I already hinted at my answer, being in cars very often. And then the interesting part I think is: What is your default podcast speed? And if people don’t know what I’m talking about when I say podcast speed, it’s like you can change the voice to go 1.0 or 1.2 or 1.5. And I think you’ve even goes up to 2x.
Yeah, I’m a total normal speed listener. I’m not sure why, I haven’t played around with the speed settings. But I am most frequently listening to podcasts when I cannot do anything else, or I’m doing some sort of monotonous or repetitive tasks. So for example, as I mentioned earlier, I usually listen to it when I’m running or training for the half marathon, or I’m folding laundry on a Sunday night, or even cooking sometimes, things where I can’t do other things, or they don’t require a lot of my attention.
I cannot for the life of me listen to podcasts and work at the same time. I don’t know how anybody does. Maybe it’s because I work with words and I’m typically reading a lot or I’m doing strategy, but it boggles my mind, and it jumbles everything up, and I it I can’t concentrate.
I’m the same.
I’m the same. Don’t apologize. Even television, I can’t multitask.
Yeah. I need to be into my show.
Yeah. So okay, what’s-
Not my work.
You mentioned, so you do a different speed, or you do normal speed?
I do not do normal. I always like to listen to normal, just so I understand what their voice would normally sound like, so I’ll give them 10 seconds in normal, but I’m a 1.2. I find 1.5 is too fast, some of the words get jumbled. But 1.2, it gets to a point where it just sounds like that’s what they probably sound like, and at the same time, I’m just much more content, so that I don’t get cut off by a buzzer. Right?
I know, right? Yeah. That buzzer would be like half a second, if you were listening to this on 1.2.
All right, we got two more here. We’ve got two more. We’re going to fly through these. Let’s go with this one. This is a fun one. So the future of podcasts, in your mind, are they audio only, or will there be a video component that returns?
Okay. I mean, I think it depends. I feel like if you’re listening to … I mean, I know some do both. This is kind of the one that stumped me. Way to go, Randy. I thought I had an answer, and then I didn’t. I mean, there are some podcasts that do both, right? A lot of them will publish the audio on audio platforms and then you can go on YouTube and watch the full video. I think Marc Maron’s show does this, I think the Joe Rogan show does this as well. You know, you kind of get a choice. And I kind of like that. I don’t know. I don’t know.
No, it’s fair. I mean, what’s interesting, people listening to this podcast may not know that we used to use an audio-only solution to record, which was Zencaster, which is a great solution. But we actually switched to Zoom, and I think the biggest reason we stuck with Zoom was the fact that we have a video feed going where we can see each other.
And I think, in that, we get so much facial expression, you get to know us a little bit better. We get to know each other better. And I sometimes feel like, if we released the video component in addition to the audio, people would get to know us better. They’d build that better bond.
And you see that more and more these days, to your point. There’s a sports show that I listen to all the time, and it’s like sports radio, but it’s kind of podcast-like, and you can also watch it on television, and all they’re doing is filming them in that studio doing the same talk that you’re hearing on the audio component.
So I think that we will get to a point where you’ll start to see those two worlds collide more and more.
Yeah. I mean, Social Pros does this. I mean, you can frequently see everybody talking, and they publish the video. And so, yeah, I actually agree with you. I think we’ll get more and more to a video-based podcast solution.
There we go. We got time for one more question. And we planted this one. Who’s, who’s going first? I think it’s on me, right?
This is over to you. So I’ll ask you first. All right, Randy, so in two minutes, what are you doing after this? There’s no more Content Experience Show in just a few episodes. We got like three more here. So what’s next?
That’s a great question. So this has been, I don’t even know how many podcasts, I got to do the actual count of how many I’ve done, I think I’m nearing 200, 300-
… something like that. So I am not stopping this because of a lack of love for podcasts. I learned a lot from these podcasts myself.
My new podcast, you know, still in the works, from a working title perspective, is going to be called The Marketer’s Journey. And I’m going to be speaking to marketers in senior roles along their career, and helping listeners understand how they got there, what they did in university to study, what their first job looked like, how they feel they got their first break, and really, understanding how they got to a director, VP, or C level role. The second half of the show will dive back into this journey that we’re putting our audiences on. And what does the marketer consider the best marketing journey these days?
So that’s what I got cooking. What do you got cooking, Anna?
Well, first, I’m really excited about that. I think that’s going to be super interesting. I feel like, especially stories, everybody loves to hear backgrounds and stories, and I mean, some people took really wild paths to get to where they are, which I think is super fascinating.
As far as I go, there’s still some planning, and some scheming. I think I would love to continue podcasting. This show has been one of the most amazing joys of the last year and a half that I have been able to join you, Randy. So thank you for having me here as your co-host on a weekly basis.
But I think I started off as a content creator. I still create content. So I think it might be a little bit closer to content, which I think would be great because people can then subscribe to both, and they won’t conflict. So it’ll be great.
Absolutely. A little bit of each, get a little bit of each of us.
Exactly. They get the whole shabang.
Well, listen, one thing that we are very good at, Anna, is coming up with different podcast formats. I think this format alone, in terms of Pardon the Marketing, ended up being something I just had fun with. I got a lot of comments from people listening saying they love this format. Some people have asked me why we didn’t just switch completely to this format, but we’ll leave that for someone else to pick up the rights to Pardon the Marketing from us, right? and then ESPN can go sue them.
Yes. Well, they’ll take that off of us and put it on somebody else. That sounds good to me.
Exactly. All right, everyone listening in, tuning in to this podcast, we’ve got a few more great episodes to come together. I hope you’ll tune in. I hope you’ll listen back to the library of many episodes that we’ve recorded.
Until next time, this is the Content Experience Podcast.