Finally Some Good News About Customer Experience

Finally Some Good News About Customer Experience

Joey Coleman, Chief Experience Composer for Design Symphony, joins the Social Pros Podcast to discuss his new Experience This! Show and why a positive customer experience is the ultimate game changer in a competitive market.

In This Episode:

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Full Episode Details

A Head Above the Rest

A customer is deciding between two companies that have the same product, the same style, the same availability, the same pricing… who gets the business? What if a company has a so-so product? For many buyers, the single most important deciding factor is service.

Joey knows that these days you can go just about anywhere for a product. No longer are you limited to the local store or even the regional mall for product selection and pricing. To cut through the competition, businesses need to look to the customer’s experience (both pre- and post-sale) to set them apart from the rest.

Additionally, businesses need a platform to not only share their superior service but also give customers an opportunity to share their own stories of positive experiences with the world (and your prospects!).

Getting to the point of brand recognition for superior service takes time, energy, and a focus on staffing with customer service in mind. Professionals who know, appreciate, and share the importance of customer service will carry your brand to the top.

In This Episode

  • How a focus on sales and prospects has led to a decreased focus on customer retention and experience
  • Why improving the customer experience doesn’t mean a huge dollar investment in fancy tools or expensive training
  • How carefully integrated AI leads to happier customers and happier sales
  • Why a successful customer experience means embedding CX-minded staff at every level of your organization

Quotes From This Episode

“A bunch of little things add up to a big thing over time.” —@jaybaer

“It’s often challenging to place a monetary value on a customer feeling good.” —@thejoeycoleman

Be a decent human being and your business will do well. Click To Tweet

Committing to and focusing on caring about the experience that your customers have when they interact with you requires work.” —@thejoeycoleman

Technology is a great way to make the customer experience more effortless and more efficient. Click To Tweet

“The revenue implications for customer service are different than they were in previous eras when all of those interactions were private.” —@jaybaer

“Before you get too deep into the cool new wizbang customer experience touch point 4000 software implement, you need to make sure that your people actually know how to deliver a positive customer experience.” —@thejoeycoleman

“Most employees that we’re asking to create a remarkable customer experience have never experienced a remarkable customer experience themselves.” —@thejoeycoleman

You need to embed customer experience minded folks in every single aspect of your organization Click To Tweet

Random acts of kindness. These things blow people’s minds.” —@thejoeycoleman

These tiny little things can completely change the face of customer experience on the planet. Click To Tweet

“They’ve empowered their employees to create remarkable experiences. They create remarkable experiences for their employees.” —@thejoeycoleman

“There needs to be a straight path to senior management for customer experience and every department in the organization needs a healthy number of people within it who live and breathe customer experience all day everyday.” —@thejoeycoleman

“There is nothing you do as an organization that isn’t connected to the customer experience.” —@thejoeycoleman


See you next week!

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Episode Transcript

Jay:Here we go. Five, four, three. Welcome everybody to Social Pros, the podcast for real people doing real work in social media. I am, as always, Jay Baer from Convince and Convert. Joined per the usual by my special Texas friend. He is the executive strategist of Salesforce Marketing Cloud, from the great city of Austin, Texas. Please put your hands together, pull out your earbuds, and stand and cheer for the one, the only Mr. Adam Brown.  
Adam:I think that is the first time other than that one time, Jay, where we had the sound effects machine, that we've actually had a woot, or any sound sort of sounder for my introduction.  
Jay:Well, we have an enthusiastic guest today.  
Adam:We do. We do.  
Jay:Serving many roles. Not only the guest on this show, but also sound effects and audio sweetening. He's a Foley artist in his spare time. He is Joey Coleman, who is the chief experience composer at Design Symphony. He is a fantastic public speaker. He is a soon to be author, we'll mention that as well. He is a customer experience consultant, but more importantly, well equally importantly, Adam Brown, Joey is one half of the hosting duo of the brand spanking new, still smells like the new car, podcast audio extravaganza produced by Convince and Convert called the Experience This! Show launched just this week.  
 Ladies and gentlemen, if you like Social Pros, and you probably do, you need to turn your ears onto Experience This! It is a remarkable show. It is funny. It is interesting. It is dynamic. Joey's pretty damn good on the show as well. Go to iTunes. Go to iTunes. Go to wherever you get your podcast, your Podcast Tree, whatever, and look for Experience This! Show, or just go to That will be the homepage right there on Convince and Convert. Joey Coleman, cohost of Experience This!, welcome to Social Pros, and congratulations.  
Joey:Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to be on a podcast with people who are both social and pros, so excited to be here. I appreciate it.  
Jay:One of us is social. One of us is a pro. We will-  
Joey:It's for the audience to decide.  
Jay:Well, send your votes.  
Joey:That's right.  
Jay:Hey, speaking of which, one of the things that's cool about Experience This! is that you do have an audience interactive component. Adam and I don't do that not because we don't love you people. We just don't do it that way, but of course, you can always email me, I'll get right back to you, but Joey and his cohost Dan Gingiss, who's also a fantastic speaker and author, have an interactive component in the Experience This! Show. Tell them about it.  
Joey:We do. We have a couple of different ways to interact. Because the show is all about experience, Dan and I really wanted to create the opportunity to structure a show that was unlike the typical podcast. I say that respectful, for the typical podcast. I listen to a lot of them. We want to give the chance for the audience to not only send in their thoughts, their idea, their comments, but to actually be on the show. We have two fun ways we do that. Number one, at, you can see a little SpeakPipe widget, which is a cool little piece of technology that while you're on the website, you can press a button, record a little message, and that gets delivered directly to us, so we can use that audio file in the show.  
 We've also start incorporating some roving man on the street recording where Dan and I both speak at a lot of events, and if you see us out on the road, we may ask you a question and record your answer, and then that will appear on a future episode.  
Jay:That's pretty great. SpeakPipe is sort of like web-based voicemail.  
Jay:Then you're going to go around to all your different events around the world and ask people their tales of awesome with regards to customer experience and customer service.  
Joey:Exactly. The show has a number of different segments. The general principle of the show is we're all about celebrating the positive customer experiences and remarkable customer experiences that are out in the world. You get enough negativity if you turn on the news. You don't need to get negativity in your ears when you're listening to a podcast. We're all about great experiences and one of the things we do when we're on the road is we ask people to share experiences that they've had with a brand or an organization that they thought were particularly remarkable or interesting.  
 Then we also do an episode or a segment, we have different segments and you never know what kind of segment you're going to get in a specific episode, but one of the segments we do is I love it, I can't stand it. On that segment, we talk about a particular topic and all the things that we think are fantastic about that topic and all those things that we think are annoying about that topic. For example ...  
Jay:Is the topic a particular company or airline boarding processes?  
Joey:Right. One of the topics was flying on airplanes. We're in the process of recording one right now about going to the movies.  
Jay:The I love it part of the flying in airplanes is a very short segment. First class.  
Joey:Yeah, first class is great. Trust me. Dan's not here on the show with us today, but he razes me about that all the time because I spend enough time on airplanes that I'm pretty regularly getting upgraded. I feel very fortunate for that, but he regularly reminds me that he has to fly in the back of the plane. I don't think it's a hair thing because he's bald and I'm not, but it may just be a frequency of flying thing.  
Jay:I think they're baldist. I think that's absolutely a conspiracy theory that we should start. I do like the positive approach of the show. This idea that hey, there's lots of fail blogs out there and everybody likes to go on social media, Facebook in particular, and kvetch about how they've been mistreated or wronged by a brand or they know a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's uncle's friend once got mistreated by whatever. There is some angst in that and some I guess collective we that we find attractive, but I don't think it's very illustrative for business people to revel in poor customer service and customer experience.  
 That's one of the things that I know you and Dan are really driven by is to make the Experience This! Show not only a celebration of great customer service and customer experience, but in so doing, creating lessons and takeaways that listeners can implement in their own business.  
Joey:Absolutely. Dan and I are both about action. As we mentioned, we're both speakers. I personally believe that there are three types of speakers. There are speakers that make you think differently, speakers that make you feel differently, and speakers that make you act differently. While I certainly hope that my audiences think and feel differently after they've had a chance to spend some time with me, one of the things we really wanted to do on the show is make sure that listeners were able to act differently after hearing the show.  
 In each segment, we'll be talking about a fantastic positive amazing customer experience and then really breaking it down at the end of that segment to tell you, "Well, here are some key takeaways and things you can implement in your business starting tomorrow," because we're also big fans of the fact that customer experience doesn't need to be this gigantic financial commitment and time commitment and let's get together, three steering committees, and put together a mission-driven, prospect oriented, customer oriented plan that is going to require everybody to do 78 more things in their day to day job task.  
 We're big fans of hey, why don't you just change your out of office email message because that would be a cool way to make people smile and laugh and think, "Oh, that's kind of funny that I got yet another email, but at least it wasn't a boring email. It was something that made me laugh."  
Jay:A bunch of little things add up to a big thing over time. No question about it. Do you think that's the reason though, Joey, that we do have still such a shortage of great customer service and customer experience stories? That there is more bad news than good news? How come companies still now, approaching 2018, are manifestly not very good at this? Is it because they get kind of wrapped about the axle on the committees and the processes and we couldn't do this because of this or we don't have the budget, or is it just something more fundamental that they don't see the inherent value in customer experience and customer service that's disproportionately good and memorable?  
Joey:I think there's actually a number of things that are contributing to this confluence of no customer experience. Some of them are structural and again these don't apply to every organizations, but we see them come up in a lot. For example in the typical business, there's a sales function, there's a marketing function, and there's a customer experience function. Those are independent silos and they're not allowed to talk to each other and interact with each other. When the reality is customer experience underlines all of those and really should be involved in every aspect of that conversation.  
 I think you also have a situation where most business leaders, if you look at the senior management team and/or CEO founders, most of them came up through the ranks of marketing and sales, which means that they're more interested in prospecting and customer acquisition than they are in customer retention. Customer experience, while it certainly has a role prior to the sale, really comes into play after the sale, and as a result I think maybe isn't as interesting or sexy to track. Additionally, I think for the bean counters in an organization, it's often challenging to place a monetary value on a customer feeling good.  
 Now I personally would counter that with plenty of examples of how it actually is correlatable to numbers and retention and increase profits in the organization, but that usually requires an extra level of analysis that I think most businesses aren't willing to do. They say, "Well yeah, the customer felt good and they wrote a good review, but has that really led to any positive sales?" Yet all the research shows for example on Amazon, if you're looking to buy a book, there is a huge tipping point if you have more than 50 reviews. Less than 50 reviews is great, but you can get ahead of Amazon's algorithm if you have more than 50 reviews.  
 There are direct correlations and comparisons to customer's feeling great about you and a remarkable experience and that leading to an increase in the bottom line, but again most companies don't usually put in the time and attention to focus on that. I guess the last thing I would say about this because as you can tell, I could speak for days on this specific fact, it's hard. I get that it's hard to ... With all the things you're doing when you're running a business, all the employee issues, all the prospecting issues, crazy things like insurance and payroll and new customers and contracting, I mean the list goes on and on and on. Really committing and focusing to caring about the experience that your customers have when they interact with you requires work.  
 Now it could be really fun work and it's something that can be implemented dozens, if not, hundreds of times a day in the smallest little interactions and actions, but it's not something that you said it and forget it. I think increasingly with the speed of business and the number of things that are on the typical employee and owner/manager's plates, making customer experience a regular and daily priority is a challenge because they already have a bunch of other things they're working on, but it's one that's worth doing because the payoff can be enormous.  
Jay:It's funny you say that about asking the question about CX and sort of delightful experiences and tying it back to revenue. I just had a client call today where the question was asked word for word, "We got all these fantastic customer reviews. Is that actually creating revenue?" I can't say for certain, but I can tell you it's not hurting revenue. That I know to be true and certainly correlation and causation can be a little bit tricky in CX and CS. It's certainly doable. It just require some effort and some expense to actually tie those things together.  
 Even tying this back to social media, so much of the interactions between companies and their customers takes place in public now as I talked a lot about in "Hug Your Haters" and your cohost Dan Gingiss talked about a lot about in his book as well. This idea that there's a spectator, audience there now when you answer somebody's question or complaint via Twitter or Facebook or increasingly Instagram, et cetera. Consequently, the revenue implications for customer service are different than they were in previous eras when all of those interactions were private.  
 Because it's not just about are you making that customer happy, although you'd certainly like to, it's what does that interaction do to purchase intent, propensity, loyalty, advocacy for all the other people that are watching this tweet, watching this Facebook exchange, et cetera. The fundamental math of customer service and customer experience has changed because of technology, because of social, because things are now out in the open in a way that they just weren't in the past.  
Joey:Absolutely. I think one of the fascinating things about that shift between the things we know versus the things we don't know, if you look at business traditionally, most businesses have no problem spending ... I think the typical business is somewhere between 5% and 10% of revenues get spent on marketing and sales. Yet most of those activities it's really challenging to draw a direct ROI. Now if you're dong Facebook ads and you can figure out what your click rate is and how that leads down your funnel, that makes perfect sense, but a billboard or a TV ad or a print ad, it's very difficult to draw a connection between those dollars spent and revenue dollars earned, and yet businesses still spent a boat load of money on those activities.  
 I'm like, "Why is it okay for you to not be able to connect your marketing and sales spend to dollar specific ROI, but you insist on being able to do it over on the post sale customer experience side?" It just blows my mind. I do agree with you. That idea of because so much of this is happening in public now, customer experience and how people feel about their interactions with you and the quality of the product or service you're providing, matters more today and on a global scale probably than any other time in human history. I mean back when we lived in small rural communities where you never went outside of your community, yeah, the reputation of Bob The Baker or Sal The Butcher was particularly important, but you also didn't have competition.  
 While the reputation may have been important if you wanted to eat, that's probably where you had to go. Now I can hop on a browser and in seconds find dozens of people that are doing basically the exact same thing as you. You may think, "Oh no. I'm a shiny penny. I'm pretty. I'm different," and that's fine and that's great and I'm sure you are. To the typical customer, you're one option they have for spending their money. What's going to make the decision for a lot of them is what is this experience going to be like? What is the outcome going to be like? They may not articulate it as that as part of the sales process, but they're going to read the reviews. They're going to talk to other people you've worked with.  
 They're going to check and see what your reputation is in the marketplace, and usually all of those things are driven by customer experience.  
Jay:Are you saying that the secret sauce is not actually a secret?  
Joey:The secret sauce is not a secret. It's really quite simple.  
Jay:I'm devastated.  
Joey:It's not a secret.  
Jay:I'm devastated by this.  
Joey:Just be a decent human being. Here's the secret, be a decent human being. Be a decent human being and your business will do well.  
Jay:There you go.  
Joey:Stop hiding behind policies. Stop hiding behind procedures. Yeah, exactly. Mic drop. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.  
Jay:One thing that we talk about a fair bit here on Social Pros is the increasing emergence of bots and apps in a social customer service context using Facebook Messenger bots, SMS bots, things like that to skim repeatable questions and answers off the top so that it doesn't require human capital to answer the same questions over and over. That can be I think a good customer experience when done well. It can also be a terrible customer experience when done poorly. Do you have a thesis or piece of advice for listeners who are thinking about implementing some sort of bot technology and putting it into part of their overall customer experience or customer service arsenal?  
Joey:Well, as a recovering attorney, I feel like you're leading the witness, Jay, but yes, ironically I do. I think the secret is it has to be part of the story, not the whole story. I'm a big believer in you turning around and saying, "Look, technology is advancing. We need to incorporate more technology into our business, so we should be thinking about AI and not just a cursory discussion in the boardroom of hey, we should do AI because I saw it on the news or read it on this week's issue of Fortune or Forbes, but instead saying how we can start to pilot this in our business?" I think the real secret is if you're going to use AI, there needs to be, especially in the beginning, a human being behind it that's ready to jump in when the customer gets frustrated.  
 This is the experience we have of calling in and we get the phone tree. I don't know about you, but I find myself jamming my finger through the phone trying to hit the zero and saying, "Representative. Human. Operator," and trying to throw out all the words I can that are going to get the AI to stop running me through the tree and let me talk to a human. That's usually because they haven't anticipated what I need. Now I personally think that the way AI is going we are a mere three to five years from AI being able to handle a significant portion of these questions. To your point, those frequently asked questions and frequently needing to be navigated scenarios. Yeah.  
 Technology is a great way to make the customer experience more effortless and more efficient, and the more you do that, the happier your customers will be.  
Adam:Joey, when you go in and speak to customers about AI, about new automation for customer service, I'm sure your experience is oftentimes like mine where you go in and one of the key things that the customer is thinking about in terms of ROI is cost avoidance. We know this is going to allow operational efficiency. This is going to allow our customer service agents to be able to handle more calls or more volume, and nothing wrong with that. That is a fundamental benefit of social customer care, any type of customer service operation. My question, Joey, is how do you pivot the conversation to saying, "Not only is it about that financial benefit, but it's that softer side. It's that brand side.  
 It's going to lead to a better experience that's going to lead to more loyal customers, that's going to lead to more good things being said, that's going to lead to more reviews." How do you pivot that conversation when you're speaking with leaders?  
Joey:Well, I have a tendency as you may have imagined from our conversations thus for to be a little more ... How shall I say? Occasionally confrontational in these type of client meetings where I'll say, "So let me get this right. We're going to invest a boat load of money in AI and right now you guys are horrible on the phone with the humans. What are we trying to accomplish here again?" I think a big piece of this is before you get too deep into the cool new wizbang customer experience touch point 4000 software implement, you need to make sure that your people actually know how to deliver a positive customer experience. We need to be able to see that they're doing that on a consistent basis.  
 Lots of times my theory around that is most employees that we're asking to create a remarkable customer experience have never experienced a remarkable customer experience themselves. It becomes very challenging to ask them to do something that they have no frame of reference for. It's kind of like when we were talking about being on airplanes. If your experience of flying on an airplane is the middle seat of the back row next to the toilet, you're probably thinking that flight is not that cool, despite the fact that we've developed the technology that puts you basically in an aluminum can, throws you at somewhere around 400 miles an hour through the air at 35,000 feet off the ground, that gets you from one side of the country to other, which used to take months.  
 When your experience is sitting in the back, it's completely different than your experience sitting in row 1A, right, where they're bringing you drinks and they're treating you very nicely and calling you by name and letting you watch movies and giving you snacks, right? I think at the end of the day, part of this whole customer experience conversation needs to be about do our employees understand what a great experience is? Have we as an organization defined what a great experience is? Then it becomes much easier to see okay, how do we deliver that? How do we deliver it with humans? How do we deliver it with technology? What do we do?  
Adam:I love that point of how do we do that it humans whether again it's the phone call, or it's the warm hand off if it is somehow automated. One of the stories that I love to share and one of the reasons I think I love what you're doing with the Experience This! podcast and focusing on positive customer service experiences. We have a great customer with Social Studio of KLM Airlines. KLM Airlines loves to tell the story of how they had a frequent flyer that was the equivalent of the Admirals Club or the Sky Club for Royal Dutch. They were out of the Financial Times. He wanted Financial Times, his favorite newspaper. He tweeted about it. He said, "Gosh. I wish they had the Financial Times.  
 I really miss getting my paper in the morning." Well, of course, KLM's social customer care saw that. They knew that he was a platinum level flyer. Contacted the purser on the plane that he was about to board. Purser got off the plane, went to the newsstand, bought one, put it in his seat with a nice little note. Of course, this made that customer's, that traveler's day. Of course, he told thousands of people. It showed the ROI on all these good things.  
Joey:Totally. People are telling that story. You're telling that story. The people listening to this podcast are going to be telling that story. Heck, I'm going to telling that story going forward because it's an amazing story that really just took paying attention. That's it. Attention.  
Adam:It's table stakes. We're not doing anything crazy here. Why is it so hard to the point that you and Jay were talking about just a minute ago?  
Joey:You know, part of my personal frustration is that people think it's hard when it's not. That's why with so many of the people who are either listening to the Experience This! Show ... I mean the reason we created these little segment morsels for the show, right, it's not one long we're talking about the same thing for 30 minutes. It's these little six to eight minutes snippets is to try to give you a bunch of great ideas so that theoretically after listening to even one show, but hopefully many shows, every time you listen you're like, "Man, that's something we could go try tomorrow."  
 My big hope for all of the listeners to this episode of Social Pros and listeners to the Experience This! Show and listeners that are hearing any of us speak on stages or reading our books or whatever it maybe is just try one thing. This doesn't need to be a gigantic multi month, multimillion dollar initiative. What if you just went to the store on your way to work and you purchased a little packet of 10 generic thank you notes. While you're working as a call center rep, you have a great call with someone, you're seeing their customer account information in front of you. You take the time after the call to write a little handwritten thank you note that says, "Jane, thanks so much for calling in about your warranty today.  
 I'm glad we were able to get that worked out. We love having you as a customer. Bob, the guy you talked to on the phone," and drop that in the mail.  
Adam:Random act of kindness.  
Joey:Random act of kindness. These things blow people's minds and I'm a big believer of and it served me thus well in my life and I recognize that maybe I'm an anomaly, but I'm a much bigger fan of asking for forgiveness or begging for forgiveness instead of asking for permission. What I'd love to see is this kind of rogue element by employees around the world to just start doing amazing things for the customers. Because if you do it enough, senior management is going to catch on. They might say, "Oh man. You are writing those thank you notes. We heard about it. People loved it. Maybe we should give you thank you notes with the logo of the company on it." Okay. Great. Thanks.  
 "Maybe we'll pay for those and we'll pay for the postage, instead of that 10 pack of thank you notes you purchased." Well, that's awesome. You know what I mean? I do believe the shifts ... People ask me all the time, "Does customer experience and does that focus need to be led from the top of the organization, the bottom of the organization, the middle, where does it come?" Folks, it can start anywhere. What it really takes is one person who says, "I'm sick of business as usual. I'm going to put out into the world what I wish was coming back to me in my interactions with organizations. I wish they were treating me like a human being instead of like a number.  
 I wish they weren't hiding behind a policy and instead we're making an exception, and letting me use the bathroom in their building because I know they have a bathroom and they're pretending that they don't. Come on. Be a human being." Right? It's like these tiny little things that I believe can completely change the face of customer experience on the planet.  
Adam:In terms of all these different types of interactions, I love that idea, Joey. I love the thank you card idea for so many different reasons. One being my goodness, if you were a customer service representative and whether you're on the phone or you're actually in front of the customer, like a gatehouse agent or something like that for an airline, we seem to be picking on airlines today, but I mean having those sorts of catharsis and being able to thank a customer and write a note, that would make me feel a heck of a lot more wonderful. Then the business side of me thinks, "Well, gosh, that probably could have an impact on HR, employee retention. Employees are happier. Customers are happier. It's a win-win-win-win."  
 I'm curious if you have a company or experience that you have had that has really been meaningful to you? I think all of us have certainly our bad experiences, but I think a lot of us have wonderful experiences where we have seen this in person and we said, "That has transformed, that has fundamentally changed the way I feel about that brand, product, or service."  
Joey:Totally. I appreciate the question and as you might imagine, as somebody who spends all day everyday speaking and writing about customer experience, I feel fortunate that I've collected a library of these types of examples of people going above and beyond, but one comes to mind when you asked this question. I'm a speaker. I spend about two and a half weeks out of every month on the road, traveling all over doing keynotes. I found myself in Las Vegas, staying at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel. The Mandarin Oriental, I'd never stayed at one of their hotels before, but I had heard about the brand. I'd heard how amazing it was, how incredible their customer service was. I showed up at the hotel about 20 minutes before the kickoff dinner for the event I was at.  
 Took my bags up to the room and was just going to drop my bags in the room and then go back down. I opened up my shaving kit to find that at the previous stop, because I developed this nasty cold while I was on the road, I had purchased a bottle of cough syrup. While this isn't polite or appropriate or good manners, sorry mom, I just unscrewed the top and chugged a little in the airport and then put it back into my shaving kit. I didn't have a spoon and we needed to move quickly. In doing so, I didn't fully affix the cap to the cough syrup. I open up my shaving kit and it's the equivalent of an oil tanker spill if the oil tanker was carrying pink sludge, right? It's like sticky and messy and nasty and all over the place.  
 I'm sick and I'm on the road. I haven't seen my family. This is a low, right? Everything is kind of miserable about this. I'm like, "I can't even deal with this. I'm just going to leave. I'm going to go down to the dinner. After the dinner, I'll come back up and I'll clean up this mess." I go down to the dinner. I come back and I walk into the bathroom in my hotel room and I realized that housekeeping has been there. Because everything that was in my shaving kit, the hairbrush, the toothbrush, the shaving kit, the razor, the shaving cream, the deodorant, every single item has been taken out and now instead of being covered in pink sludge, it's been washed and laid out on a pristine white towel to dry.  
 The bottle of cough syrup has been cleaned off, so it no longer looks like a complete train wreck. It looks fresh like when I purchased it. This alone would have blown my mind, right? This alone was wow, someone paying attention and really going that extra step. I lift up the bottle of Robitussin and there's a letter underneath. The letter underneath says, "Mr. Coleman, I hope you're feeling better. Sincerely, Kelly." Now here's my question for everybody listening at home, do you really think that the Mandarin Oriental has a training module for their housekeeping staff where they've created a system and a policy for what you do if you come across a bottle of cough syrup that is leaked all over a guest's shaving kit?  
 No, but what they've done is they've empowered their employees to create remarkable experiences. They create remarkable experiences for their employees. As a result, those two things feed on each other to create a culture of experience that leads to me feeling better about being sick on the road, that leads to me telling this story thousands of times to tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of listeners and people, right? It's that little thing. What's the ROI to the Mandarin Oriental Las Vegas? Well, I mention them in almost every speech I give. I don't know whether that's equated to more room nights booked, but I imagine it has.  
Adam:It has to.  
Joey:It has to.  
Adam:It's just good karma on that. To that point and this is my last question for you before we go to commercials, you have just articulated the most perfect marketing program for Mandarin Oriental, which actually has ... If you know their print ads at least in magazines or celebrities and there are one or two sentences about what the celebrity and how they've experienced the wonderful wonders of that particular hotel property. To that point, one thing and one shift that we're beginning to see with customer service is where in the organization those people live.  
 I can't tell you how many times I go in and sit down with a CMO and the CMO will say, "Listen, I believe that every customer experience, every time a customer experiences our brand, sees our brand, touches our brand, reads our brand, that is a marketing experience." For that reason, many companies are beginning to put customer service as part of the marketing organization or at least dotted line or full lined to the CMO. Joey, I'm curious how you feel about that. Is that the right place for customer care, customer experience to live or does that create tension? If it creates tension, is it a good sort of tension or a bad sort of tension?  
Joey:Yes. I think you need to embed customer experience minded folks in every single aspect of your organization. You should have CX people in accounting, and in marketing, and in sales, and in ops, and on the delivery trucks. They need to be everywhere. It's about having a culture of customer experience. Personally, I like to have the customer experience function report directly to the CEO. The reason for that is if you say, "Customer experience is really important to us," but that person reports to the head of sales or the head of marketing or the head of ops or whoever it is that they report to, to me it doesn't send the clear message to your internal customers, i.e., your employees that this really is a priority.  
 Because if it's yeah, we really care about this, but that person reports three levels up to the marketing and good luck if marketing's ever going to tell the CEO that we need to spend more on customer experience. I think there needs to be a straight path to the senior management team for customer experience and I think everyone in the organization, every department in the organization needs a healthy number of people within it who live and breath customer experience all day everyday.  
Jay:It sounds like what you're really talking about is some degree of cross-pollination and cross-training, which is particularly appropriate because one of our sponsors this week on the Social Pros Podcast is our friends in Salesforce Marketing Cloud who have a new eBook that I'd like you all to download. Go to What is this eBook you ask? It's a great question. It's called "More than Marketing: Exploring the 5 Roles of the New Marketer." It's a breakdown of the five new essential marketing skills that all marketers must possess, including customer experience understanding. There's interviews and hear their stories. There's interactive features, even to help get you started, immediately actionable steps to mastering your new talents.  
 Grab it when you get a chance. "More than Marketing: Exploring the 5 Roles of the New Marketer" from our friends at Salesforce Marketing Cloud. Go to Of course, this week we also want to make sure that you know about the Experience This! Show. We've been talking about it her with Joey, his cohost Dan Gingiss. It is fantastic. All about the good side of customer experience and customer service. Go to iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Look for Experience This! Show or just go to, which is the homepage for the program. You can subscribe right there. Catch up on all the previous episodes. There are four episodes launched by the time you hear this.  
 Speaking of which, when you go there to, what you will find, my friends, is an all new My team and I have been working for five months behind the scenes to relaunch The site's got thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of pages now. It's pretty big deal to do an all new look feel navigation system, new mobile version, the whole thing. Hey, it would be awesome. Go to Spend some time with the Experience This! Show. Social Pros too if you like. Send me a note. Let me know what you think. Would love your feedback, That would be swell. Adam, back to you.  
Adam:Thank you, Jay. There is such a wealth of information on the Convince and Convert website. It's just great. Congratulations, Jay, for this transformation. I know it's been a long process, but I think a definitely worthwhile one.  
Joey:Adam, forgive me, if I may, one of the things I think is really cool about this commitment you made, Jay, with the Convince and Convert website, it's about the customer experience. You've made it easier to navigate the website. You've made it easier for people to find what they're looking for. Frankly, if you read those thousands and thousands of pages and you aren't convinced, I don't know what will.  
Jay:We can't convert you at that point. Well, you know, the thing is we had ... The site's been around for nine years. We'd had the previous design for nearly three. The company's changed a lot. The content's changed a lot. We've got a lot more podcast now, et cetera. It ended up, sort of being as is very common with websites, kind of like a Christmas Tree that has way too many ornaments on it. The branches are sagging and you're like hope this doesn't catch on fire and you can't get at the presents.  
Joey:You're like don't fall over before Santa comes please.  
Jay:It was kind of too much of a good thing. Sometimes it's hard to bonsai your tree and just sort of trim branches and all those kind of things, but that's what we did. It's definitely easier to use and about 6,000% better on mobile. We're psyched about that too.  
Joey:Here's what I think it models too. You can have a really well working, great customer experience and there's still always room to improve. That's what I personally love about this space more than any other space I've ever operated in. My background and my career is super eclectic. I love customer experience because every time you create a fantastic customer experience, you actually raise the bar so that to really impact that customer in the future, you're going to need to be even better, which is awesome because it just gives us all the opportunity to continue to improve and be better at what we do.  
Adam:Joey, Jay, what you were both talking about right there is really the set up for my next question and thought. Oftentimes when we talk about customer service, we're thinking of the call center. We're thinking of the customer service representatives sitting there at a green screen. Joey, you just articulated it perfectly. Just about everything is customer experience whether it's the UI on Jay's new Convince and Convert website, it's the ability to open the blister packet that my product comes in, to that front desk experience or that experience of housekeeping that you talked about in the Mandarin Oriental. When you talk to companies, how do you get them to kind of realize that?  
 I know for example when I was at Coca-Cola, one of the things that they had all executives do twice a year is to go on a ride along where you actually sat on a truck and you went on a ride along where you delivered Coca-Cola products to 7-Eleven's, or QuikTrip's, or to a restaurant, and you got to really meet the actually customer or the consumer. It gave you an entirely different outlook of what customer service is and who those customers or consumers are. What are some other tips when you speak to senior leaders that aren't as you said in the customer experience or customer experience department, how do you make them more focused on this topic?  
Joey:Well, Adam, I totally agree with you. The ride along programs, the get out there and see what it's like on the front lines of your organization in my personal belief should be a documented piece of your annual review at a company. I think every company as part of their annual review when it comes time to get a raise or a promotion should say, "How much time did you spend customer facing," no matter what your role is. You should be able to as an employee articulate that, explain what you learned, document how often you did it and regularly you did it, and that that should be a requirement like you were saying earlier, that's table stakes across the board.  
 I also think that there's an opportunity here to look at every single interaction and challenge your employees to come up with great ways to make the customer experience. I'm a big believer that across the board, I mean literally across the board, there is nothing you do as an organization that isn't connected to customer experience. Nothing. When people say, "Well, Joey, what about like the vacation policy for our employees? That doesn't touch the customer," I'm like, "Oh really? Let me break it down how it does. First of all, if you don't have a positive enough vacation policy for your employees, they're upset. They've been working too hard. They haven't had a break. They're going to be more irritable when they talk to your customers.  
 Second of all, there's the opportunity to reach out and have your employees actually have positive experiences, so they have a framework of what to do with the new customers that they interact with." I think at the end of the day, it really is about every interaction is the opportunity to be remarkable for your customers and it's time to do that.  
Jay:It's also almost time for your book to come out. Well, not almost time, but it's going to come out. Tell us about it, Joey.  
Joey:It is going. I have a new book coming out, which is actually my first book. Super excited about this. Thank you again to Jay, who was kind enough to introduce me to his book agent, which led to my book agent, that led to a fantastic work with our publisher, Portfolio Penguin. The book comes out March 6th and its entitled "Never Lose a Customer Again: Turn Any Sale into Lifelong Loyalty." It's all about the fact that in the typical business, 20% to 70% of your new customers will leave before the 100 day anniversary. This book offers a system and a process for making sure that that doesn't happen.  
 Walking them through a structured onboarding system that is designed to meet them emotionally where they're at, to hold their hand, and to get them to that raving fan zealous advocate stage that we all want our customers to get to, but rarely can.  
Jay:I can't wait. We'll make sure to have you back on when the book comes out in March. Actually big news. I haven't talked about it at all anywhere. I'll mention it here on the podcast. Just signed a deal for my next book as well with the same agent, also with Portfolio Penguin. Daniel Lemon and I going to be writing talk triggers. It will be out some time next year as well. We're fired up about that.  
Joey:Woo. Woo. Fantastic.  
Jay:Keep the party rolling. Joey, I'm going to ask you the two questions that we've asked all 288 guests on this podcast. First question ...  
Joey:I'll try to get the right answer.  
Jay:What one tip would you give somebody who's looking to become a social pro?  
Joey:To become a social pro. As you know, Jay and Adam as well, I am not the guy with the biggest social media platform by any means. In fact, it's embarrassing. If you can find me on Twitter, how few followers I actually have. Full disclosure. I am not a big social guy. However, I believe that the best way you can become a social pro is to be all about people because social at the end of the day is people. It's about connection. It's about interaction with people that you might not have the pleasure of being in front of at the time you're interacting with them.  
 I think the very best social pros bring to their social based conversations, whether that's Facebook or Twitter or Instagram or wherever you're at, a level of personalization and connection that tries to mirror the way they would behave if they were looking that person in the eye.  
Jay:Nice. Well said. See, you could do this for a living. It's not too late for you. It's not too late.  
Joey:How about that?  
Jay:Last question for Joey Coleman, cohost of the Experience This! Show. Go to or find the new podcast any place that you download your podcasts. Joey, if you could do a Skype video call with any living person, who would it be and why?  
Joey:If I could do a Skype phone call with any ... I like the clarification there of living person because I've got a boat load of people from the past that I would do a Skype call with.  
Jay:Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan is the answer.  
Joey:Yeah, exactly. Genghis Khan would be interesting. Leonardo da Vinci. There are so many, many amazing options.  
Adam:Burt Reynolds. Is Burt Reynolds still alive? Maybe.  
Joey:Burt Reynolds I do not believe is still alive anymore. Although if he is, we've just started that rumor. Sorry, Mr. Reynolds if we've done that. Who would I talk to? You know who I'd talk to? I'd love to talk to the person who hired Kelly, the housekeeper at the Mandarin Oriental. I'd like to ask them this question, what did you see in this woman that led you to know she would be the right person to maintain and enhance your well established brand and reputation? Because I believe that customer experience can be taught, but I also believe that some people just ... It's inherent in their DNA. When you find those people, boy, get them on your team.  
 Figure out a way to get them involved and keep them happy and keep them with you as long as possible because they're rare and the return on having someone like that in your organization can't even begin to be measured.  
Jay:I love it. That's fantastic. That's the kind of insight you're going to get at the Experience This! Show, That kind of question, right? Is it nature? Is it nurture? Is it about hiring? Is it about training? Is it both? Is it neither? It's not neither. I can give you a little hint on that. It's a fantastic show. Really different. Super lively. Super fun. Lots of different segments as Joey mentioned. It's a riot. You're going to love it. Give it a listen. I'd sure appreciate it, so would Joey, so would Adam, so would Joey's cohost Dan Gingiss. Joey, thanks so much for being here. Congratulations again on the launch of the new show and forthcoming book.  
 Love to have you in the Convince and Convert family. We're super excited and we will talk to you soon.  
Joey:Thank you, Jay and Adam. It's been great being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening not only to Social Pros, but to Experience This! Show.  
Jay:Adam, man, it's been great. We've been on such a roll lately. We've been talking about ... We had donuts. We had tequila. Now we've got Experience This! We had Tom Fishburne last week, which was just awesome. I'm super psyched about his book as well. We had Tim Washer a couple of weeks ago talking about comedy and content. We've got a lot of stuff going on. It has been a super great run.  
Adam:It has been. We are heading to the fall with some even better shows. Hopefully we can keep this trend of good food, good conversations, good guests talking about positive and uplifting things because there's a lot of unpositive and ...  
Jay:Ain't that the truth. On behalf of Adam Brown from Salesforce Marketing Cloud, I am Jay Baer of Convince and Convert. Thanks so much for listening and this has been Social Pros.  
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