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How to Become a Social Audio Superstar

Posted Under: Social Pros Podcast
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Hosted By
10XMarketing

Anna Hrach

Convince & Convert
10XMarketing

Daniel Lemin

Convince & Convert
10XMarketing

Erika Lovegreen

ICUC Social
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Social Pros is one of the most popular marketing podcasts in the world, and was recently named the best podcast at the Content Marketing Awards. Listen for real insight on the real people doing real work in social media. You get the inside stories and behind-the-scenes secrets about how companies like Ford, Dell, IBM, ESPN, and dozens more staff, operate, and measure their social media programs.

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Making the Most of Social Media SpacesHow to Become a Social Audio Superstar

While Clubhouse and Twitter Spaces are undeniably social media platforms, they’re a whole different ecosystem when compared to Instagram or even TikTok. So, how do you make the most of these spaces?
Abraxas Higgins, Influencer, Social Audio Creator, and Strategist at Abraxas Management Limited, says it’s all about wiping the slate clean and looking at things from a different angle. He’s on this episode of Social Pros to share his journey to becoming the world’s first social audio influencer.
Abraxas shares three things you need to be successful as a social audio influencer. He also drops some words of wisdom for influencers and brands looking to dominate the social audio space.

In This Episode:

  • 3:15 – Abraxas explains what it means to be the world’s first social audio influencer
  • 4:41 – How Abraxas got his start with social audio
  • 7:18 – Why Clubhouse dominates the social audio space
  • 10:02 – Cultivating a community on social audio spaces vs. traditional channels
  • 12:30 – What it takes to be successful as a social influencer
  • 14:32 – What inspired Abraxas to start his own show
  • 17:10 – Why social audio influencers can fit in anywhere
  • 21:53 – Abraxas’ take on what brands should do before reaching out to influencers
  • 23:37 – What brands should consider when working with social audio influencers
  • 25:59 – Why some brands haven’t been able to leverage Clubhouse effectively
  • 30:11 – The effect of the abating pandemic on the social audio space
  • 35:01 – Abraxas’ take on untapped opportunities in social audio
  • 38:35 – Abraxas’ advice for anyone looking to become a social pro

Quotes From This Episode:

“I believe that creating community in a live space creates a more intimate interaction.” Click To Tweet
“It’s important to be likable, engageable, and to have a narrative that your audience agrees with.” @Abraxaxs
“Rather than selling an eBook on how to be a social audio influencer, I want to forge a real relationship with every single person who follows me until it’s no longer doable.” @Abraxaxs

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Episode Transcript

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Abraxas

Higgins:

If

Twitter was for these, you know, bite size messages, if TikTok was for this short form video soon to be long form, if , you know, if Instagram was for pictures, then clubhouse was, was for, was through your voice.

Jay

Baer:

I'll

tell you what Anna learned an awful lot about social audio today from truly one of the world’s great social audio influencers, Abraxas Higgins. And as he said there at the top, while we tend to lump social audio clubhouse, and, and similar applications in with conversations about Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn and whatever it is a much different beast.

Anna

Hrach:

It

is absolutely a much different beast. And as Abraxis walks us through today, he talks through so many ways that it’s different from what having to wipe the site clean and think about it totally differently, but you’re definitely gonna wanna listen to him and take his advice because he alone on clubhouse has a following of 450,000 plus. So he he kind of knows a thing or two about social audio.

Jay

Baer:

Yeah,

it’s a really interesting and dynamic conversation Abraxas is spectacular at audio as you might expect you’re going to like this addition of the social pros podcast, speaking of which you’re gonna like the very special ebook that we created to celebrate our 500 anniversary 500th episode anniversary. Recently, if you go to Bitly slash social pros, 500, you can get it. It’s B I dot L Y slash social pros 5 0 0. And in this special guide, we took all the highlights from this show, going back a decade, our favorite guests, our favorite moments. And then we went and asked a lot of folks who have been on the show multiple times. And I, I think there was like 25 or 30 people who have been on the show more than two or three times. And, and we asked them, you know, what’s changed in social since you’ve started in the community. What predictions do you have for 20, 22 and beyond? There’s a lot of really good insights in this book. It’s called the social pro 500th anniversary guide or something. I actually forget the real name of it. I should know that, but I don’t like, you know, what are you gonna do? Code a Bitly slash a social pros, 500, trust me, you’re gonna like it. You’re also gonna like this episode of the show with a bra Higgins, a social audio influencer. Here he comes right here on social pros,

Jay

Baer:

Higgins,

is Higgins is one of the world’s leading social audio influencers and creators hosting the 9:00 AM in London show. He’s a, B X on rally. If you’re down with the creator coin economy, this on social pros, Abraxis is with us. How are you?

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

am great. I’m currently in Jamaica right now. So it’s super hot, super warm. And the beach is a stones throwaway.

Jay

Baer:

I

appreciate you taking time from the beach to be on the social pros podcast as does Anna talk a little bit about what you’re up to now other than being in Jamaica, just so the social pros community can kinda have some context about all things Abraxas.

Abraxas

Higgins:

For

sure. So I’m, I’ll give you a quick, a quick brief of who I am and what I do. So I am, and I am confident in saying this now I am the world’s first social audio influencer. And what that means is using things like Twitter spaces and clubhouse, I’ve managed to garner an audience to the point that brands and high net worth individuals want to work with me. So it’s been the most incredible journey very new. One thing I always say is the metrics that people were using to govern normal, traditional Instagram, TikTok, that sort of stuff they don’t necessarily apply here. So it’s a completely new world, a completely new scope. And it’s allowed me to really jump in, put my strategist hat on and my influence hat on, and really go into this world for lack of a better word. I was gonna say something that would be quite horrible. Really deep I just realized watershed, you know, daytime TV can .

Jay

Baer:

Did

you find social audio or did social audio find you? I mean, you obviously very familiar with all things, social media and, and some of the more legacy platforms, like you mentioned Instagram snap, et cetera. And, and did you say, Hey, let’s check out social audio then all of a sudden, like these are my people and this is my opportunity and let’s, let’s blow this up. Or how, how did that, how did that happen?

Abraxas

Higgins:

So

really, interestingly enough, a friend of mine sent me an invite. Now, this friend of mine his name is will Taylor. All things of the culture. He has his fingers on the pulse, and I say that some people can have their fingers on the pulse, right. And that will give you a pretty good direction of where things are going. He has his fingers on the pulse. If anything is moving, I’m talking early on moving, he’s always aware and will always send me a DM. We’ve got a group chat where have you heard of this? And I’ll do the same thing for him. Have you heard of this? And he hit me up and said, have you heard of this social audio app or clubhouse? I was like, no, he’s like, what? I want an invite for you. Jump in. And I jump on.

Abraxas

Higgins:

And

to be quite honest, when I first got on there, I wasn’t like blown away. I was like, okay, this is kind of cool. I get access to people I’ve never had access to before, you know, Joe, Biden’s in a room speaking right now, Ms. Allen, Harriman’s in a room speaking right now. And what they’re speaking about, I just have to tap this button and I can be in the audience. Oh, wait, hold on. I can also be on stage if I raise my hand and then the wheels start turning, but I don’t use it for, for a week. I then come back, use it again. Speak in a room about food. And I say something, I’m pretty sure I remember what I said, but I said something. And before I knew it, I had gained 300 new followers. And at that moment in time, I had then realized that if Twitter was for these, you know, bite size messages, if TikTok was for this short form video, soon to be long form, if , you know, if Instagram was for pictures, then clubhouse was, was for, for, for your voice, right? This was how you were gonna garner an audience. It wouldn’t just be your voice. It would be your thoughts. Can you think on the fly, you know, do you create spaces that people want to be in and where and behold before I knew it, I, I believe social audio chose me. I honestly do.

Jay

Baer:

It's

interesting where we’re at with social audio now, certainly clubhouse, the first popularized in many ways, social audio app, I find it interesting that you mentioned Twitter spaces in your introduction as well. Some would say that in the tradition of social media applications, somebody has a good idea. I E clubhouse, and then everybody decides to borrow and improve on that idea. Twitter spaces, Facebook, Instagram, everybody else coming out with social audio applications as well. How do you feel about that as somebody who really was, and is one of the great influencers in social audio, are, are you at this point platform agnostic and just figure like, look, all social audio is better than having no social audio. What, what’s your take on, on sort of the competing platform side of the game?

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

think it’s good. I think it’s a good thing, right? I think the, this, this creates a, a, a marketplace for would be thought leaders would be influencers where they can shop around. You start to realize that one thing I’ll say that clubhouse has done very well. There’s no blue tick. There is no, you, you are special, right? The community will decide whether you are special or not. right. And they’ve done more than just been the first social audio app. What they’ve managed to do is be complete disruptors in this space too. Right. When they said, all right, cool. You know, we’re bringing in transactions and you realize it to a space that’s gonna bring in transactions. And they’re like, you know, we’re gonna ensure that our creators don’t have to pay any, you know, all these things that have come in that they’ve sort of done.

Abraxas

Higgins:

They've

been, they’ve been like nap stuck to a certain degree. Right. so as much as all these other players are out there, there’s one thing that clubhouse has done really well is they have the community. We can talk about Twitter spaces and I love Twitter space, by the way, I love all of these platforms. But when you start to give people blue ticks and allow them to then speak on stage and do these things, sometimes they don’t have the electrical prowes right. They just have a blue tick. Sometimes they don’t really have the humor or the wit they just have a blue tick. Whereas that clubhouse community is so organic. Nobody knew it was happening. We were just spending every minute of every day talking to each other before we knew it. Some people had some skills, some people didn’t, some people were comedians, some people were musicians, but that genuine nature of how that community was built means that everybody else can try and create whatever they want. But they’re missing that X factor that genuine like community factor it’s like TikTok and reels, right? That TikTok community is completely different to what’s happening on Instagram and reals. They are driving the culture and clubhouse will continue in my humble opinion to drive the culture.

Anna

Hrach:

So

since we’re talking about community and the differences in community, there are obviously different ways to engage entirely as you’ve already talked about. And just from your opinion, because you have AMAST and amazing 450,000 plus followers on clubhouse. What are some of those key differences between cultivating, cultivating a community on social audio spaces versus traditional channels. And not only that, but how do you keep that engagement going? Because obviously audio is so much different than just sending out a tweet or a Facebook post. It’s just such a different realm. So just curious about your perspective on not just cultivating that audience, but also nurturing it and continuing that engagement.

Abraxas

Higgins:

Yes.

So it, it’s really interesting. One thing that we have to look at with social audio, another, there are elements that make it not live traditionally it’s live right. You are, as soon as you press go, you are on like, Hey everybody, what’s going on. And with that comes some, some, some really brilliant things. People can catch you in the moment. People can clearly tell you’re in a good mood and you’re in a bad mood and there’s an element of live, which is very much so human. There’s an element of live that people will keep coming back for. Right. But it does mean you have to be about it, right? If you look at what Twitch streamers do, and there’s a, the, I dunno why nobody’s done this and somebody should, well, I kind of have, but I should do it maybe more. I need to talk about how Twitch and how clubhouse are very similar and how they can both learn from each other in this live space, right.

Abraxas

Higgins:

To

be a live performer does take its toll on anybody. Who’s doing it because it is for the most part every single day. And when you take days off or you are missing, you will be bombarded with DMS. Where are you? Are you okay? Like, but this is the nature of it. It’s, it’s really, it’s really good fun. So in terms of live, and in terms of now community, there’s a much more intimate aspect to this. In my humble opinion, there have been in scenarios where I’ve had to jump out of a room that I’ve been, you know, curating for an hour or so, because something in real life has happened. I was like, guys, I really have to go. And immediately I’m bombarded with DMS. Like, how are you? Is everything okay? Just wanted to tap. Just wanted to check in with you so on. And so, so on and so forth. But I believe that creating community in the live space, it creates an interaction that is very, very intimate. Now the people that do it in a positive way, great for them, I think there are two types of people. There are people that do it at the benefits of the community, and there are people that do it at the expense of the community. And I prefer to be on this side.

Anna

Hrach:

It

is really interesting that you equate it to, to a performance because I do remember the first time I got on stage on clubhouse, it, I did get some of those, like almost like pre talk stage jitters. Like it felt like that, but obviously it doesn’t have to be a performance. It’s just sort of being elevated. So in order to be successful in this space, do you, do you think people need to have some of that performance aspect or do you just think they need to be good at conversation? Is there a balance, like what does it take for somebody to be successful as a social audio influencer?

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

think there are three things. One of them is you have to be consistent. It’s not gonna be some viable moment. You have to ingrain yourself in the community. They have to keep seeing you in the void and then they have to take that chance to jump in. Right? And then when they do jump in, you have to be likable, engageable, whatever it is, or have a narrative that they, they agree or like, so one thing is consistency. The second thing that I think is truly important for social audio, like truly, truly, truly important authenticity.

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

did not realize how much comes through your voice. I’m pretty certain. Now I can tell when somebody’s lying. I can tell when somebody’s nervous, I can tell when somebody’s kind of got their back up and there’s a bit of bravado involved in what they’re doing. The people that have managed to AMAs, their biggest audiences have been themselves. They truly have been themselves. And the final thing is the final thing, which is the most important thing. And it’s gonna sound Soly, cliche. You have to have fun. I’m sorry. You have to enjoy interacting with people. Cause if you don’t well in this medium, if you don’t, there’s no point and people are gonna know you’re gonna jump on. Hey, welcome to 9:00 AM in London. immediately. I’m like, eh, I don’t wanna be here. I don’t wanna be here. So those that’s sort of my Trinity, I try and work in threes. That’s my Trinity of the things that you would need to be successful in social audio,

Jay

Baer:

Social

audio influencer. Our bra Higgins is our guest this week on the social pros podcast, your main production, as you just referenced is 9:00 AM in London, on clubhouse and beyond. How long had you been on the platform as a contributor, jumping into rooms raising your metaphorical hand, going on stage before you said, Hey, I should create my own show. And, and this is gonna be the place that I am primarily contributing to this community. A and you have advice along those lines for people who maybe have not done a lot of social audio yet, but want to

Abraxas

Higgins:

Great

question. All right. So for me, I had been on the platform maybe three weeks before I decided to start a show, maybe even four, I think it was four close to four. And what had happened was there was a platform out there run by a guy called Ashwin, who is incredible. And it was called mind the gap. And it happened at a time where, cause wasn’t very many people from Europe or the UK on the app. And I was like, mind the gap. That kind of sounds like, you know, the thing that they say on the London underground and where, and behold, there’s a group of people from London in there who have lived in London. And it was awesome. I felt right at home. Right. And that kind of inspired me to make something cuz for whatever reason it went without being there for about two weeks or so.

Abraxas

Higgins:

And

I was like, man, I miss, I miss this. So I took, you know, big Gulf set up a club, took a big golf and then opened up a room. I was like, you know, and maybe three people joined. I’m like, Hey, welcome to 9:00 AM in London. You know, what are you doing today? and that was honestly the Genesis of 9:00 AM in London and slowly but surely it builds out a format. And the brilliant thing is I’ve not done 9:00 AM in London for four weeks. I’ve not been on, I’ve had a sort of social audio, social media detox to a certain degree, right. Just to kind of figure out where I want to be this year and the community’s so big that the community run it themselves. I don’t have to be there anymore. Right. and they run their own version. They do spinoffs. It happens late. It happens early, but that’s the beauty of having a community by, into what you create. Because as I said, I get to take a bit of time off in Jamaica. Are they keep, keep the wheels turning on the bus.

Jay

Baer:

Isn't

that the greatest Testament to a successful community though? When, when the person who created the community no longer has to perpetuate it, we’ll actually have an announcement about that here on social pros coming up soon Brexit. We talk about taking this detox to think about what you want to do this year is the idea to now jump to other creator platforms that, that maybe aren’t strictly audio that are more video based or other opportunities or, or things that are not even in the social media realm. I guess the, the way I would ask this question in a better way is you clearly have had tremendous success in social audio strategically and you are a strategist by trade is the idea, Hey, let me press this advantage. I am better than almost anybody at this thing. So I should keep doing this thing. Or do you think I’m really good at this thing? And now I should do some adjacent thing to sort of expand horizontally

Abraxas

Higgins:

Great

question. Really, really, really good question. And it’s, I’m in this sort of expansion process right now. I’m fortunate enough that I play the piano to a really, really high standard, not the highest, but high enough. And I put a video out on TikTok. Didn’t think much of it. And funny story is this, that one of the comments I got, cause I played three songs. They’re like, you progressively get worse of every P with every piece you play. And I was like, that’s my superpower. That was my comment. But that comment really hurt whoever, whoever put that comment out there is a, not a nice person so they put this comment out there and it’s just lingering in the back of my head. And I’ve left this video out there for six hours. And before I know it, hour seven happens and it’s going completely viral.

Abraxas

Higgins:

It

goes from having no views to having 1.6 million in no time through that there’ve been, you know, opportunities that have now come up. So there’s been all these other things that have happened outside of social audio. I’ll hopefully be walking well, not hopefully I will be walking can’t say for who, but fashion week, I’m gonna be walking fashion week London. I’ll be doing a bunch of live events where I’m talking about NFTs, which is a subject that I like to talk about. Cuz I have a background in computer science and I keep saying no offense. Cause I actually really like Gary V it’s not going to be the Gary vs of the world that are going to have to talk to Congress when we’re talking about NFTs and how they work. It won’t be the marketeers. Unfortunately it’s gonna be the people who have a theoretical and a practical background in computing and can also, you know, verse and have been in this space.

Abraxas

Higgins:

So

I talk about NFTs a lot. I’ve got a bunch of talks coming up about that. I’ve got some big news coming out with a brand a I’m writing my first. This is so crazy. I’m talking about I’m writing my first treatment for a high, for a luxury brand. And the one thing I will say about this is this. I think social audio influences are a different class of influencer. I wouldn’t even call them influencers, thought leaders. They tend to be a little bit older, not older, but they’re a little bit older. I tend to have done some things. So they have a few things they can talk about. But on top of that, you know, if they’re funny and they’re humorous and they can hold audience well, and let’s say they look good too. And they pay an instrument. You can start to plot them anywhere in any circle.

Abraxas

Higgins:

And

they’ll do amazing things. Well, and behold me getting to go to the James Bond, premier and hang out with Idris Albert and Lasha Lynch and all these, like, I don’t know of any other influencer that Don even maybe doing this for, let’s say six months at that point, I don’t have any viral anything. Right? I’m on Instagram with maybe 10 K followers yet I’m at the James Bond premier. So there is definitely something to be said about social audio influences or thought leaders as I like to call them and how they garner an audience and how they Gar a community.

Jay

Baer:

I

agree because as you mentioned, it’s largely live. And so it’s, it’s harder to fake that, right? You don’t get to edit it. You don’t get to have a second third 17th take and because it’s straight audio, you, you can’t be better at editing or a more expensive setup or have an amazing production company behind you or spend six months putting together a YouTube stunt. Right. It, you know, you’re sort of working without a net, which as somebody who’s done literally thousands of podcasts and thousands of speeches that’s what I really liked about social audio as well. You can fake it temporarily, but you can’t fake it very long because people will figure that out. so I, I really, I think it, your exact right is it is an excellent permeable membrane for people who actually have real ideas that that matter, go ahead, Anna.

Anna

Hrach:

So

I first off, I’m sitting here in complete awe because you’re going to a James Bond. Premier SI, well, you went to a James Bond, premier. You were going to be walking in fashion week soon. I mean, this is, this is amazing. You work with massive brands both on the influencer side and then also working with them to help them with their strategy as well. So I’m just curious before we get into some of the strategy pieces, what are some of the things that, from your perspective you wish brands would do differently before even thinking about influencer efforts or working with a social audio influencer and not even necessarily in a negative light, but just maybe things that as you’re engaging with these brands, you realize maybe they’ve overlooked something or they haven’t thought something through just curious your perspective on that. Since you do work with massive brands,

Abraxas

Higgins:

They

have to come in and wipe the slate, clean what they think they know they don’t right. Trying to use the same metrics you use in Instagram and Twitter in this environment, it doesn’t work, it just doesn’t work. So that’s one of the things I, I, I have to say upfront. You know, what, what you are looking for here is different. It’s going to be a different level of engagement. I actually have the world’s first social audio case study with a luxury brand. And it is absolutely terrifying in a good way, how amazing this is. If I said to you in eight hours worth of content, I can have 64 days worth of listeners. Would that not inspire any brand to come in and say, well, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, what’s how right? How would you do these are the sorts of numbers I would, one day I’ll go into the DC. I really wanted to present this south by Southwest by the way. But I just, I acted a little too slowly. when I will get there, I will get the time I will get the chance to do it and present this work because it is honestly frightening. And I think what’s happened is we’ve had people come in with a very Instagram, Twitter mindset to a space that is completely new. So my one piece of advice is come in, wipe the slate, clean and listen.

Anna

Hrach:

So

in terms of what people should be looking for, then once they wipe the slate clean, they’re like, okay, we’re not gonna use our traditional metrics. What should they be looking for? How should they start really approaching social audio?

Abraxas

Higgins:

Yeah.

One thing you should sort of look at is stop listening to some of the, the, the thought leaders in this space. Do they align with your brand, right? Is your brand kind of TMZ Hollywood risky kind of news? Cuz if it is, there are a bunch of people I would point in that direction and say, this person would be a great person to have. Right. So start looking at your, your, your, your, your cast, essentially. Who would you like to have there? Secondly, start thinking about some of the metrics, some of the metrics that I think about with brands and one of the metrics that I use is a metric called stickiness. Nobody really care. Nobody talks about stickiness on Instagram, talks about maybe with the app, but like how sticky is a Praxis as a social audio influencer, as a thought leader, when people come into a bra room, do they immediately ask just a brat solid or do they stay right?

Abraxas

Higgins:

What

is good stickiness? What percentage would be good stickiness? Right? If you are not asking these questions, which I don’t expect many brands to ask these questions, right? My job is to talk to these brands and say, Hey, I just need you to listen. But those are two things I would say, without giving away everything, I would say you would want to know the average stickiness is of this person, right? And stickiness being how long somebody stays in the room. And the other thing being, as I said, you’ve just really, really, really got to know what that influence stands for, what they’re about, what that thought leader is about, because then you have the perfect, honestly, the perfect, you know, perfect person to come in and work with.

Jay

Baer:

One

of the things we talked about here on this show, ah, geez. It was probably a year ago. When we were doing some episodes of the show on clubhouse, et cetera, is this notion of brands having their own rooms and then putting somebody who’s the head of product or the head of customer service. And just say, okay, if you are a customer of IWC, the watch brand that I know you represent and you want to come in and ask questions about your time piece or talk about new features, like just come hang out and let’s talk about it. This idea of brands hosting almost a public forum for customers to me seems like a, a really obvious way to build community at essentially no cost, but I don’t see that many brands doing it. Why do you think that is

Abraxas

Higgins:

Fear

of fear of adoption? I think nobody wants to spend too much time on something then be, oh, it was a bust. It was a bust. I don’t be the one that spend it. However, as I said, they just haven’t had the opportunity to look at the nuts and bolts at this to look at this sta it’s all went and good on saying, you know, qualitatively, oh, it went really well. Well, how do you know? Right. And nobody wants to be able to, you have to feed this up the chain, they’ve got corporate overloads. They have to appease and say, well, was it a success? Well, you know, and I know that clubhouse are trying to get better with their stats, but I think once they can really show how well, you know, how well news travels on the application, one thing. And then on top of that, what the stats look like listenership. And then when people then go, okay, well let me check this brand out. When you can really do that, you are in a completely different space. So I think it’s the fear of adoption and this idea of like, I want more data. I, I have corporate overloads to appease.

Jay

Baer:

Yeah.

And I think one of the other issues that I’ve heard from, from some of our clients that convince a convert and, and elsewhere is the, the live nature of a lot of what you have in social audio. And you’ve the same reason why some brands love Facebook live and LinkedIn live and even YouTube live and others are like, no, that water’s just too hot for us. We don’t fundamentally trust our team enough to put them on a live microphone and say, ask me questions and I’ll answer them. And other brands are like, well, if we pay this person all this money and they have a password to our computer network, why would we not trust them on a social media account? Like, you know it, it, it really is almost a cultural perspective from brand to brand, which I find really fascinating. And, and it’s hard cause I’ve been doing this for a long time. It’s hard to talk somebody into it. Right. They either fundamentally believe that there’s nothing to worry about or they fundamentally believe there’s a lot to worry about and it’s, and it’s hard to convince them one way or the other.

Abraxas

Higgins:

No,

and you are completely right there. Right. I purposefully only want to work with luxury brands. Right. I wanna work with brands that have been around for a while and are truly trying to, like, I look at like IWC, I’ve been around for like 160 years. Like that was not an easy conversation. How do you convince a brand that’s been around for world wars and, and you know, 2008, when, you know, the, the, the, the market’s crashed, they have been a, how do I go in there and say, Hey, you know, trust me in this new space, but this is what I say to, well, first of all, I say to not only to clubhouse as a whole and all, all the people that work there, but I also say it to any other input. So you have to be able to talk about the platforms you use.

Abraxas

Higgins:

You

have to be able to better than anybody else. And that’s one thing I pride myself on as somebody who’s like, well, what is clubhouse? And what is social audio? And why would I want to be there when I’m like, well, let’s have this conversation. And I think within three minutes or so, I can tell whether a brand wants to be around or not. But as I said, fortunately for me, it’s been easy enough with my sort with the resu I use to talk to brands that I want to, or when they’ve reached out to me to have a call just like this, I’m like, okay, well, let’s, let’s get into the nuts and bolts here.

Jay

Baer:

Speaking

of nuts and bolts a question about best practices now in social audio, pandemic is theoretically abating. People have more opportunities for leisure now, and more ways to spend their time that being the case, are you seeing social audio conversations and rooms, et cetera, getting shorter, because back in the day, it was not at all uncommon to say, I’m gonna be in this room for, you know, three hours or three days, or, and it almost felt like a badge of honor to see how long you could stay in the room. But nobody had anything else to do. Right? but now people have other things the same way that, that, although TikTok is expanding to 10 minutes, which I think is a huge strategic mistake, but whatever the TikTok is the, is of, of content pieces, right? Shorter, shorter, shorter, which goes all the way back to, to vine, et cetera. But do you see social audio conversations getting shorter?

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

do. I do see social audio conversations getting shorter. And I see the content getting better as well. I think people are starting to realize and look at other creators like myself and all these other phrases out there and kind of say, okay, well, this formula seems to work, right? So there are people that are now kind of all right. My room is only an hour, only 30 minutes. And that is a good thing. In my humble opinion. That’s a really, really, really good thing. Have shorter shows you can jump into and jump out of them at your own ledger. Yeah, the, the change in, you know, what’s happening with COVID is definitely thought about a change in the way people interact with the application. But one thing, you know, and some people have said, well, you know, you know, social audio is dead.

Abraxas

Higgins:

Now

you, the two spaces will be dead and clubhouse will be dead and so on and so forth. I argue that that is absolute rubbish. And this is just an idea, just off the rip. We have Joe Rogan who is, you know, thought leader, complete thought leader, doing brilliant things in, in his own space, controversial in some aspects, but doing brilliant things in his own space. We have Joe bud, who is almost his polar opposite. If you have Joe Rogan for, let’s say like, you know, white community, whatever, and you have Joe bud for the black community, let’s say once a month, just once a month for an hour, they do a show on clubhouse called the two Joes.

Jay

Baer:

I

like that idea that that would be that would be big .

Abraxas

Higgins:

Are

we all not diving in to the two Joe to hear what these two people,

Jay

Baer:

Two

Joe say,

Abraxas

Higgins:

You

can, you could do this so well with a podcast. If you have a big podcast, you can listen to a podcast, but sometimes I wanna talk to the, the host of the podcast. I wanna talk to Anna. I wanna talk to Jay. I want jump in, but once a month, right, start, stop thinking of it as maybe your main and start thinking of it as maybe an accessory, an accessory that everybody can play in, as long as you have that wit and let’s credability.

Jay

Baer:

Yeah.

I think that’s a really interesting perspective that it’s not the, the show every day, but it’s the, it’s the special show. I completely agree. Brexit with your perspective around social audio, as a behavior set aside what platform, but, but it’s not gonna go away. I mean, just now amp just came out right. And amp is amazing, right? It is a combination of, of clubhouse and TikTok and radio and Spotify. If you haven’t gotten onto it, friends, check it out. It’s really, really interesting. It’s it’s the way radio was when I was a kid and I am an old, so I know what that’s like. It, it has real potential. And I think it’s really, really interesting. Again, you’re not gonna be able to fake that. You have to be able to have a conversation and actually know a lot about music to succeed on that platform, but there’s gonna be some real stars on the amp platform. I think it’s the sign of, of new things to come in social audio.

Anna

Hrach:

There's

so much to unpack there. I, I was laughing too hard at Jay’s I’m an old, just just that phrasing, but then also too, I, I not even afraid to say that I’m not a massive fan of Joe Rogan. I would be there for the two Joe’s. I would absolutely 100% be there. And I, I save, I think you need to trademark that. I think you need to pitch it. Everybody heard it here first. It’s a B’s idea. You

Jay

Baer:

Hate

the deal. It’s it’s it’s like maybe every other Friday, but each time it’s two different Joe’s right. So, so now you got bill Montana, the football player, and somebody else named Joe, right? Like every, and then the audience gets to pick which Joe’s are on the show. Yeah, it’s got, it’s got real, real potential. Let’s work on this

Abraxas

Higgins:

Again.

So I think, and this is what I can say. You guys get it completely, right. I think we’ve been looking at this whole ecosystem in a, with old glasses on, right. The same way people have come in and well, you know, I wanna know what my, you know, like whatever weird Instagram metric is. And I’m like, dude, that does not work here. Like there was something here, but people have not thought about, and this is, this is, and this is why, you know, with you two, I can tell you two are smiling. You’re nodding. I can, this is why when I have a conversation with a brand they’re like, all right, cool. let’s do it. Like, says we believe in you let’s go. Let’s get it done. Let’s you know, come on. Let’s go.

Anna

Hrach:

So

I, I am curious. So, because, and we’ve kind of been talking a little bit about this because you have been there really for the epic rise of social audio, and you’ve gone through some of the, you know, I guess we can call it growing pains of social audio spaces in general, where do you see some of the big opportunities coming up and specifically for brands? You know, there’s so much untapped opportunity as we’ve just talked about with the two Joes, but where are some of these untapped opportunities that brands can start to look for with social audio?

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

think there is something to be said about the way news travels in social. It’s very hard to quantify it, but in this case study, I try my best. And whenever I went into a room and said, IWC, there are a portion of people that would then go into another room and say, IWC. And then someone did in that room would then go into a room and say, Ida, and you have, I’ve coined a name for this, but I’m not gonna say it here, but I’ve coined a name for this in the, in this case study when news permeates social audio in a very different way, believe it or not. I know there are people out there when I first worked with Ted baker that didn’t know who Ted baker were or a British fashion brand. And now I get DMS all the time.

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

just bought this piece from Ted, from people that had no idea. Some people may have not even, even they weren’t even in the room, they just heard this name and this thing that I was attached to. And then they did some research or clicked in my buy or whatever it was and became fans of this brand, paying fans of this brand. So for me, I think the opportunity utilize in many spaces, but brands actually have to participate. I think there’s a participation aspect that they’re kind of missing. And I wanna say that, you know, kind of using the Nike slogan, you just have to do it. You gotta do it. You know, put, you know, some of these brands are humongous, humongous marketing budgets, right? I would say be less fearful and start thinking about things in a bit more of a web three mindset.

Abraxas

Higgins:

And

you’ll have ample opportunity and for an individual I’ll say what, what I do when I go on social media, I tell people this, I don’t need any money from you. Any alpha. I have any ideas. I have any, anything I have, I’m willing to share. My one ask is this right? I’m never gonna ask you for money. I’m never gonna ask you for an ebook. All I want is your support comment on my Instagram videos, repost them. That is the transaction I want. I think the old thing is, let me sell an ebook and tell you how to be a social audio influencer. No I’m gonna sell an ebook. What I want is to forge a real relationship with every single person who follows me until it is no longer doable, right? But that is my mindset around this. That is my sort of web three mantra. That is how I believe you build real community that will do anything for you.

Jay

Baer:

Yeah.

There’s a reason it’s called word of mouth. And that the best way to tell stories is out of your mouth. And that’s the great thing about social audio. It combines word of mouth with the network effect of social media. So it’s no surprise that it works. And the kind of stories that you tell about IWC and Ted baker and other brands, it pays off geometrically. As you said, it’s just a little bit tricky to put math against that. And sometimes brands don’t like to invest things that they can’t put a spreadsheet against. And that’s been true since the 17 hundreds. It will be true in the 27 thousands. It will, it will always be the case. some, we’ll get it. And some won’t and that’s why we have a show. And that’s why we’re here. Brexit Higgins is our guest this week on social pros. Brexit’s gonna ask you the two questions. We’ve asked everybody here on the podcast, going back, whatever the number is now 528 episodes or something. First question. If you could give somebody who is looking to become a social pro, if you could give them one tip, what would you tell them?

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

know it’s gonna sound really cheesy. I know it’s gonna sound really cheesy authenticity, be yourself. What happens when you’re authentic is the people that truly are about you and your ism. Cause everybody has an ism. They will be drawn to you, right? And that is exactly what you want. you want people that like your ideas and like you’ll want to celebrate you to be drawn to you. And the people that aren’t well, just, you know, get drawn somewhere else. And that’s fine. So authenticity, if you go onto these platforms and you are a fake, it’ll be very difficult to live up to that for a long period of time. This is easy for me because I’m who I am. Right? So authenticity, authenticity, and more so in this web three climate that we’re going into authenticity will reign to create.

Jay

Baer:

Certainly

agree with that last question for Brexit. If you could do a video call or a social audio room with any living person, who would it be and why?

Abraxas

Higgins:

I

hate this question so much, cuz there are so many people down if it could be one person, okay. My one person

Abraxas

Higgins:

yeah, it’s gonna be cool. Yeah, Joe. Now kidding. It’s gonna have to be Kanye west. Now the reason being is I always, I talk about things or talk about people in terms of, you know, you can have capital but money and you can have what I call like social capital. And if you have enough social capital, you can do very weird things. You can move audiences, you can even move the stock market. Kanye west in my humble opinion has some of the most social capital currently on this earth. And I would love to have a conversation with him about social capital. I don’t think people are having can, how many cars do you have? Can’t like, no, I really want to go into social capital and clouts and all these things that we talk about. Why do people want a blue check so badly, right? this fictitious thing. This is what I want to talk to Kanye about. We can talk about the music another times. Somebody else can question you about the music. And I love the music we can talk about, you know, Kim and another time social capital let’s get into it. So those that, that would be who I speak to.

Jay

Baer:

Yeah,

it it’s a great answer. And if you haven’t seen the Kanye west Netflix documentary absolutely recommend you watch it. Social pros community because it is a real case study in how to manifest that kind of social capital Kanye’s fame, his power his success, his notoriety, his infamy, none of that is an accident from a young boy. He was like, I am gonna be a thing. And you can just watch the, the, the scaffolding and the moves. It’s really, really fascinating and and worth a watch regardless of whether you’re a Kanye fan or not. As a social media professional, it is a documentary worth your time. Absolutely. It’s called genius. On Netflix Brexit, we’re be making documentaries about you pretty soon. I, that is my prediction. Thanks for being here. Congratulations on all the success. It was an absolute treat avenue on social pros.

Abraxas

Higgins:

The

pleasure is all mine. I just wanna say to you every bill, thank you, Jay. And thank you Anna. And to anybody listening, if you have any questions about social audio, if you have any questions about social media, if you are thinking about quitting your job you know, to, to pursue social media, send me in, send me a DM. Honestly, send me a DM on Instagram. I am more than happy to talk through these things. I mean it, when I say I will charge nothing to anybody because that’s not the model I’m building, we are going to be the biggest community of thought leaders of thinkers, of , of humanitarians, of, of, of light. And I cannot wait to help you on your future in depth. So thank you for having me and let’s do it again soon in a year’s time. Let’s do it again.

Jay

Baer:

Yeah.

Well check. That’d be fantastic. Braus Higgins. Thanks so much. Anna, thank you. I’m J bearer from convince to convert she’s Anna rock from convince and convert. We’ll be back with another fantastic episode of what we hope is your favorite podcast on the entire planet. This has been the social pros podcast. Don’t forget. You can get the transcripts, the links, the backgrounds, the answers, the extras of this, and every single episode@socialpros.com. See you next time. Thanks.

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EP 515 – Edited (Completed 05/13/22)

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