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How to Rescue Content Marketing From Its Ivory Tower

Authors: Jess Matt Heinz
Posted Under: The Content Experience Show
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Hosted By

Anna Hrach

Convince & Convert
About The Content Experience Show:

Welcome to The Content Experience Show where content experience is the new content marketing. It’s not only about reaching our audiences where they are, but engaging them with a personalized experience of meaningful, useful content that they’ll take with them over time. The guests on the Content Experience Show share strategies, tips, and real-world examples of how they’re taking their content marketing to the next level and providing their current and prospective customers with a true content experience. This isn’t just a trend. It’s a movement.

Apple Podcast Reviews:

It doesn't get any better for content marketers. They present a balanced, insightful discussion of current trends and ask all the right questions. Their guest list is a "Who's Who" of content professionals. Outstanding.

Jared Johnson Piano

I love listening to marketing podcasts and this one is on my must-listen to list. Very knowledgable hosts and topical discussions.

The Marketing Book Podcast

Matt Heinz, President of Heinz Marketing, joins the Content Pros Podcast to discuss the increasingly intertwined relationship between marketing, content, and sales.

Matt-Heinz-InstagramScaling for Sales

Scaling your marketing plan is not about gadgets or gizmos. It isn’t dictated by platforms or fads. It comes down to keeping your perspective straight.
Content is not about the product. It’s about sales and, more importantly, it’s about the individual consumer.
In today’s overly connected world, the definition of content has stretched beyond blog posts and white papers. However, many marketers refuse to recognize or don’t realize this new reality. They stay in their ivory towers of content while their sales department flounders and potential customers leave before closing a deal.
Matt Heinz is well versed in getting marketers out of their tower and into the trenches with the sales team. He has found that a collaborative and cross-functional approach to content that brings the sales team into the conversation at a strategic and creative level leads to, quite simply, content that works.

In This Episode

  • Why the reality of marketing today means that even one-to-one conversations count as content
  • How content marketing has become the new sales department
  • Why cutting through the clutter means making your customer feel human again
  • How not properly arming your sales team leads to an email bruise


Quotes From This Episode

I think of us as sales pipeline people. Click To Tweet
“Marketing may still generally own the top of the funnel and sales may own the bottom, but there is much more integration and alignment along multiple stages than there used to be.” —@HeinzMarketing
“We forget that one of the biggest roles of content across an entire addressable market is to get, earn, and keep someone’s attention.” —@HeinzMarketing
“You can’t assume that all pieces of content are going to apply equally to every prospect and every individual situation.” —@HeinzMarketing
Closed deals are great, but what about lifetime value? Click To Tweet
“Sometimes faster and cheaper is not the best way to go. Sometimes it is. But sometimes you get what you pay for.” —@HeinzMarketing

“The more you can systematize, the more you can create consistency and scalability of your good ideas, the more it makes those things happen faster, easier to deliver consistent results and it gives you more time to be creative. And more time to innovate whatever comes next.” —@HeinzMarketing

“Start somewhere, don’t assume you’re going to fix your golf swing in one thirty minute lesson but start to make some process.” —@HeinzMarketing



Content Pros Lightning Round

What’s your drink of choice? I’m a beer and whiskey guy. So for me, a good red ale and a really nice bourbon, a nice smooth bourbon.
Tell us about how farmland plays into your life. About two and a half years ago my wife and I bought a little over a half an acre outside of Seattle with a 110 year old farmhouse on it. We’ve got two bunnies, ten chickens, we’ve got a little orchard corner of the property. Sort of our own little corner of paradise.
Do rabbits really eat carrots all day? Our rabbits are nine weeks old and so we’ve got them on a combination of timothy hay and baby rabbit food. They will eat, carrots for sure, but from what I can tell the crack for rabbits, the food they cannot get enough of, is oatmeal. You put a little bit of oatmeal in front of a sleeping rabbit and it will wake up and devour it.


Randy: Welcome to another episode of Content Pros, I’m Randy Frisch from Uberflip as always I’ve got Tyler Lessard joining me from Vidyard. And today we’re going to talk about things that Tyler and I actually deal with all day long. And literally five minutes before we started recording this podcast I was in a meeting with my VP of Marketing and my SVP of Revenue and we were trying to figure out how we get marketing and sales more aligned as far as targeted direct, if you want to call it ABM sales are concerned. And I’m sure that a lot of people listening to this podcast are struggling with these same challenges. No matter how small or big your organization there’s huge complexities, and we’ve got the perfect guest today to talk all about sales and marketing alignment. Tyler why don’t you bring him in.
Tyler: So I’ll echo that. It’s something that I live and breathe everyday. And Quantity vs. Quality, how are we giving content to our sales team. Are we building programs to help them or hurt them. Things I think about everyday, but I know my friend, Matt Heinz from Heinz Marketing not only thinks about this for his own company but thinks about it for clients. So with that, I’m going to let you introduce yourself Matt. Give a bit of background on where you’ve come from and what you do at Heinz Marketing.
Matt: Thanks very much guys, a pleasure to be here. My name is Matt, started Heinz marketing about eight and a half years ago. Yeah, I think of us as sales pipeline people. Which I think is sort of germane to this conversation. We are a bunch of marketers that think in terms of full funnel sales pipeline contribution. You know you can’t really buy a beer with a marketing qualified lead, so we prefer to sort of put more focus on pipeline contribution, close deals. And that requires marketing to work more closely and in a more integrated way with the sales organization. Not always an easy thing to do, but it’s a required thing to do to make sure marketing is getting what they want out of the equation. So we help, you know, growth mid-market companies sort of manage that and improve that and create that scalable or repeatable system from the marketing perspective moving forward.
Tyler: So I’m going to get the buzzword out of the way. This is going to be a buzz wordy podcast everybody. So brace yourselves for it. But there are going to be some very tweetable quotes from Mr. Heinz, so stick with us. So the buzzword I’m going to get out there is sales and marketing alignment. And Matt from your perspective what does it really mean right now and what’s changed in the last three to five years that are making companies think more, if they are, about how to get these teams working together, and what is the role, that really, content is starting to play in that?
Matt: Yeah, I mean, I think in general for far too long, and still this persists in a lot of companies today. You’ve got a marketing organization that acts like the arts and crafts department. And I think in an age of increased transparency and requirements of attribution, of what’s impacting what from a business standpoint. You know there’s a heightened- there’s a brighter light on what marketing is doing and what impact it has. So thankfully that is translating into marketers that are putting their money where their mouth is. That are embracing revenue responsibility and that are- you know, look, they may still- marketing may still generally own the top of the funnel and sales may own the bottom but there’s far more integration and alignment along multiple stages than there used to be. And I think content is at the core of that.
You think about- you know Ann Handley talks about the fact that everything the light touches is content. This isn’t just blog posts and white papers, this is the way the sales team addresses prospects. This is the way that your BDRs respond to your webinar leads. I mean the last thing you want to hear a BDR say is thanks for attending the webinar would you like to see a demo? Right? I mean the nuanced way that you approach that prospect to have the right conversation is in and of itself content, right? And I think we forget that the biggest- that one of the biggest roles of content across an entire addressable market is to get and earn and keep someone’s attention.
Tyler: Right.
Matt: And ultimately get them to think differently about their status quo. And there’s many different formats that can take and there’s different versions that should take for different personas and different roles in the organization based on the buying cycle. And so you know where we’re seeing more and more companies invest in content. Too often it’s not created with that nuance in mind so it’s just more and more crappy blog posts that aren’t necessarily having an impact.
Tyler: Well, and you know the one thing that I’ve learned here that you mentioned, and I’ll double click on is the- as a marketing organization we have a bigger responsibility throughout the buying journey than we ever have before because of all the changes in buying behavior and community and such. And as a result, you know, my team has a pipeline target and we have a revenue target for marketing sourced opportunities. But as that started to happen we- I certainly personally realized the need to say: well, if I’m not only responsible for top of funnel leads, if I’m responsible for qualified pipeline and revenue, I sure as heck better get my sales team effective at follow up. And I better start building programs for outbound campaigns that those guys can go and run to help us fuel actual in market results.
And it was actually a change for me as a marketer thinking about actively, how do I create campaigns that support both inbound and outbound. And how am I creating opportunities directly for the sales team to go out. And that’s kinda started to fuel things like ABM and others. Randy maybe, just to toss it over to you. Are you guys thinking in that same light at Uberflip, and do you see the same in your client base?
Randy: So yeah, I think Tyler you’re like always on my headset or something like that. You know we do these podcasts in this way and that meeting I referenced that I was in, literally twenty minutes ago was exactly on this big debate. And I think you nailed it, it’s a big shift that we’ve had to think about as marketers. We’ve had to go from thinking top of the funnel to thinking about that entire buyer journey. And one of the things that I always contrast is you think about all the thought and effort that go into our drip email campaigns. Now I don’t care if you’re a marketer who uses something fancy like Marketo or a la carte Pardot or if you’re just using something as simple as MailChimp. It doesn’t matter what you’re using, you’re really thinking about every message that goes out. And I think that the big debate is, is the sales team thinking as critically about each email that they’re sending. And if they’re not, maybe that should be marketing’s responsibility to help bridge.
You know Matt, maybe over to you. How do you see the ownership of the cadence of messages coming through the sales team? Should that original copy before it’s personalized live with marketing or should that live with sales?
Matt: I definitively believe that lives with marketing. I think that there’s been a bit of a debate on the sales side. You know we get involved in a lot of the inside sales conversations. And even in the sales community there’s a debate of should sales be creating content. Even if you have sales people that can write a compelling piece of copy, is that really why you hired them? No, you hired them to sell. And I think marketing needs to be the champion and the owner of the personas and the buying stages and what people need to hear at different points. And it is certainly up to a good sales person to customize that and personalize that to each unique situation but I think the consistency of what’s going to work more appropriately and more actively at each stage needs to come from marketing. But I also think that marketing has to understand and realize that there is going to be that level of customization at the ground level. That you know you can’t assume that all pieces of content are going to apply equally to every prospect and every individual situation.
That’s where we ended up in the situation where ninety percent of content created for sales doesn’t get used. It’s not because sales can’t find it, it’s because it doesn’t work. And I think too often marketing sits in an ivory tower and says well here’s how we should talk to sales people, here’s how we should talk to our prospects. And what I would encourage a lot of those marketers to do is take your copy, look yourself in the mirror, and read it while you look at yourself in the mirror. And if you can do that with a straight face then maybe it’s good copy. But nine times out of ten, the what we write that we expect sales people to say or what we expect to deliver, people don’t talk to each other this way. Right, I mean you’re not writing to a building, buildings don’t write checks. So I think there’s a level of precision, there’s a level of comfortability, there’s a level of just realism that needs to go into content that is going to make it easier for sales people to use what they’re getting from marketing.
Randy: So Tyler, maybe a question back to you or Matt. You know, who’s responsibility is it in marketing. Like what’s the job title these days, that you’re seeing, of the people who are helping to author the cadence of communication. Be it, you know, phone calls to your point Matt, or emails that are going out. Who’s owning that on the marketing team?
Tyler: So I’ll take it first on what we see here at Vidyard and what I’ve seen some clients doing. And product marketing for us, because they own the personas, to your point Matt. They take a very outside in view. They try to really understand the value drivers the business drivers and they take a first cut at building that framework around what that messaging should look like. But again it starts with the value to the persona not with the product. Which is also a problem we see with sales owning messaging, is they tend to start with product not the value drivers. So we’ve started there with product marketing as building the core content and the templates and then we actually have our demand gen team who works hand in hand with our sales development reps to actually take those and nuance them into those individual campaigns or nurturers. And we found that to be effective because those- the demand gen folks are actually sitting really close with the sales development team, and they have a little bit more day to day feedback from them on what’s working and what’s not. So they tweak what comes from product marketing and- but make sure that they’re actually sitting with the sales team and getting feedback as they do it.
Matt, does that contradict what you’re seeing out there?
Matt: No, I think that works really well. I think the only thing I would add to that is that, you know, not every- I mean we talk to a lot of earlier stage companies that don’t have a well defined or mature product marketing team. And so there isn’t that natural home for the personas. What’s more important is that someone is assigned to own that. And that it becomes an active tool. It’s not something that you create and you put up on a wall and it’s done. Especially early stage companies that are changing what they’re selling, changing how that’s pitched. Learning about the buying process while they execute it. And then are able to translate that into appropriate content. Sometimes that is in certain ways, managed in a group format that someone has to be the owner. And it can be any number of people, you know on the marketing side, but you know- someone even in an early stage company to embrace that.
Tyler: So we recently, I was very proud of my team, because recently we won an award for one of our content campaigns. But the award we won was for sales enablement. And it was because the way we designed the campaign was one hundred percent around the needs of the sales team and to generate more qualified opportunities for them. And the one thing we did that I thought was super interesting, and I can’t take credit for this, this was the smart people on my team, but what they did was they built this maturity assessment tool that almost effectively asked the qualifying questions sales would typically go through. And it gave the results back to a sales rep but we actually created content that was held back so the sales team had a very specific follow up. They knew that if somebody came in and had answered these questions there was an exclusive video or an ebook that they were to share back that helped them understand, hey here’s- based on your responses here’s how I can help you get from A to B I’d love to have a conversation.
And what was interesting about that program, and it was the first one where we had really locked up with sales when we designed it and said: What questions would you ask here? How well does this qualify somebody? But it was super impactful and worked really really well. But the most important thing was the sales team was excited. Right, when they got leads from this campaign they were excited because they knew exactly how it was orchestrated. And they knew how to follow up, it was very prescriptive.
And on that point, again Matt, are you seeing people do this in the real world other than companies like us? And you know, is this something that you’re really advocating with clients to build marketing campaigns with sales involved in the whole process?
Matt: Oh my gosh, yes, I mean I think the more you can do that the more sales is bought in. If you’re creating campaigns like in a vacuum, and then you know, the day before you forward the- you know sort of a draft version of the campaigns. Like oh here’s what you’re going to get tomorrow. Like they’re not ready, they weren’t part of it, they made a- so even if a sales leader was involved, there needs to be some expectation of what people are going to get, why they need to follow up with it.
You know your point about sales enablement programs is really important. And I think it- if you as a marketing organization are measured on pipeline- on lead generation. Right, if you’re measured on the MQL’s you generate. What incentive do you have to invest resources in giving your sales team materials that are going to improve conversion rates opportunities that you may or may not have had anything to do with, right. And so like that- I think sales enablement content, the content you give to sales that helps them, not only accelerate velocity of deals but increase their own efficiency, help them work more deals and increase their active selling time. That’s one of the most effective, most high leverage things your organization can do to help with sales. And if marketing isn’t measured based on marketing influence on closed deals at least in some way, there isn’t a natural incentive to do that work.
So I mean some of this comes back to just alignment, right. This is making sure that you’ve got these teams aligned around objectives, aligned around incentives. To make sure that they are thinking in the same way. Like I want a marketing team that is going to forgo their cheapest lead source if it’s not converting. I want them to triple their spend on leads if it’s to a target that is showing a propensity to convert higher and/or you know give higher lifetime value once they’re a customer.
Right I mean, these are the metrics that matter more. It’s great that we’re looking at pipeline contribution and closed deals. Increasingly whether we’re talking about account based marketing or not I’m seeing those same marketers start to say: closed deals is great but what about lifetime value? Like who are the customers, who are the organizations that are staying with us longer that are more likely to be land and expand success stories. Like that’s where we need to go spend more of our effort because it has a greater revenue impact on the business overall.
Randy: I love that angle Matt, and you know, absolutely that’s the goal that’s what we’re all striving for. I want to take a quick pause here, hear from a couple of our sponsors. Both Uberflip and Vidyard who you’ll hear from, Tyler’s company and my company, we actually do a lot in this space in terms of enabling sales. We’ll come back and we’ll talk more about some of the formats of content. You can arm sales people with.
Randy: So as we said we’re going to dig in a little bit more here around the types of content that you can use to really arm sales people to close these deals, to engage at a higher rate. And you know, Tyler, I’m not just saying this, I was, as we talked about, I was having this meeting earlier today. And one of the things that I was debating was what are the personalized content assets that people will actually notice when you send it to their email or you follow up. And I think too often people these days, in my opinion, were focused on okay well, we’ll change this one word in this document or we’ll put a different cover page on a document for you. Right, and you know all of a sudden people are going to believe that we’ve really created a personal piece of content for them. And I just don’t know if that’s cutting it. I think the standards are getting raised really quickly around personalized content. And I was actually suggesting you know, the way you guys help people drop videos that are truly personalized with a frame or two that puts their name in in a cute fun way. Maybe you can tell- I’m having a tough time explaining, but can you tell us one of those types of campaigns your clients have done?
Tyler: Yeah, there’s two types of things that we’re seeing with video to really take that personalized touch to the next level. One is the automated personalization. And what we mean by that is, you know you’ve got a video that’s ready to go, that’s going to go out to a lot of people or be sent one to one, but automating pulling in that individual persons name, their company name, their title, you know something else relevant to them into the flow of the video content itself. And you know what happens there is you generate a thumbnail and somebody sees it and they’re like, oh my gosh, that’s me in that video that’s my name this must be very relevant. It’s a very interesting play. And it’s working really well because people understand the connection there of okay I can see that this was specific to my roll or to my business. And there’s also the vanity of us loving seeing our names and things like that. So it creates a sense of intrigue. That’s working really well on some account based marketing programs and sort of broader campaigns where you want to get people’s attention.
The other one though, that I’m kind of more excited about, and you know Matt I’d love for you to talk about this is the personal video messaging. Which is really the idea of authentic, genuine, you know video that I can record and share with somebody. So instead of typing a big long email using a template, we hit the record button and we actually get on camera and we say: Hey, my name’s Tyler and I’m from Vidyard and I’ve got some ideas about how we can help you do A, B, and C, I’d love to chat more. Click send. And doing a personal video like that, that actually shows your face, that humanizes the process. We’re finding to be super successful for sales teams. And you know marketing has a role in helping to prep and equip that, but it’s something we’re seeing to be really effective. And so those two ways of using video to really personalize and humanize the experience is become really really interesting.
You know Matt, I know that you’re a fan of some of these ideas and not a fan of bad prospecting emails so you know bad whiskey and bad sales prospecting, what do they have in common Matt?
Matt: Well, they leave a bad taste in your mouth, right. I think you know it may feel cheap. You know I think a lot of people you know when they’re mailing their sales team they prioritize and optimize space on what’s going to be the lowest cost. Like well this is fast, this is cheaper, this is a short cut. Well sometimes faster and cheaper is not the best way to go. Sometimes it is. But sometimes you get what you pay for.
Your point about videos and emails is spot on. I don’t know if this- it probably isn’t meant to be a commercial here but I’ve been using Viewedit, that tool that Vidyard provides and I love it. I think it’s a great way to differentiate, I mean I don’t use it in every plan of communication. One of my favorite ways to use it is if I’ve kind of stopped hearing from someone and don’t know why, you know haven’t heard from in a little while, sometimes just you know breaking up the monotony of written emails, just clicking that button, and one button away I’ve got a little casual video I can send off to someone. I can see when they watched it, I can see when they watched it again. It’s really cool. And it breaks things up.
And I think one of the things that we really have to be cognizant of as marketers is what’s going to set us apart. I mean, everyone is creating content now, everyone is writing blog posts, so what are you going to do that’s different? Like everyone has trip campaigns, every- you know most people- many people have adopted SalesLoft and Tout and others and loaded them up with these follow up emails. Some of which are just plain awful, right. Some of them have these animated gifs that are make- are apparently supposed to make me feel guilty for not reporting- not returning some sales guys phone call. I mean I literally get people to- I got a- a subject line that said: You haven’t called me back that makes me sad. It’s like, not my problem friend! And we’re not friends, stop calling me buddy. So you know the- I think when you want to differentiate and show that you’re not treating someone like a number and you record even just a fifteen second video for someone. It stands out, and the response rates are there to prove that it’s worth it.
Randy: Yeah, I got one of these actually in the mail. Sorry, one of the good ones I should say. I get probably twenty of the bad ones a week at least in my email. I got one and I’m ninety nine percent sure, Tyler, they were using your platform. Because it caught my attention. First of all it was a screen cap in the email it showed my website, right. It had someone’s face over it, and they were essentially pointing to something on my website and like, how do I not look at that, right? And those are the- these are the types of things that I think we need to be doing going back to the point. As marketers we need to arm our sales teams with creative ways of breaking through.
Sales reps are very creative, but we need to find ways that we can do this en masse on scale so that they can actually go out and reach multiple prospects on a daily basis without having to wait for us as a marketing team to do it on a piece for piece ad basis.
I’m wondering, Matt, can you tell us about any clients that have truly accomplished some of these ideas on scale? And how is that happening vs. going at it you know for one or two special clients that we may want.
Matt: Yeah, well I mean, this is sausage making, this is not always pretty, it’s not easy. And my best examples both among clients as well as other companies I see. You know those companies and the individuals leading those efforts will be the first to say well, we’re still figuring this out, we’re still working on trying to make this work. But I think, you know the- you know we’ve been talking a lot about content, right, and creating content is one thing, and enabling the right kind of content is one thing, but providing the tools and the processes and systems, not only to execute this better, but to scale it, is a critical part of this. And I think smart marketing teams and sales enablement efforts are prioritizing those systems and processes.
So let’s take Viewedit, right. I mean you know you can get an entire sales team of five people, fifty people, five hundred people you know using these video tools, but what do you do to not only enable them to do that. What tools and what processes do you give them. How do you teach them how to do it? How do you teach them how to do it in a way it integrates with CRM. How do you teach them how to watch for and follow up on when someone actually views that. And how do you reinforce that behavior over time. This isn’t just, well here’s a tool, knock yourself out. I explained it to you in three minutes at the- SKO a couple months ago that you totally forgot about. So you know providing real process and system behind this is really, really important.
And I used to be more of a detractor when it came to process and systematization of things. I felt like it got in the way of being creative and of being agile. And I’ve learned, in some cases the hard way, that the exact opposite is true. The more you can systematize, the more you can create consistency and scalability of your good ideas, the more it makes those things happen faster, easier to deliver consistent results and it gives you more time to be creative. And more time to innovate whatever comes next.
Randy: It’s so dead on and you know it’s funny, that’s really what we’ve been talking about all day today. Is how do we handle scale, how do we handle arming sales people at scale to go direct, right. And the funny thing is, as you put it, when you don’t, it’s actually really scary what happens.
And you know I’ve spoken about this before, people may have heard me say that it’s really funny to watch what sales people do when you don’t give them a process. And I’ll give you an example. Just embedding a piece of content into their email, right? Now we all assume that we have somewhere that they’re pulling these resources from but the scary thing is they’re often searching Google for their own content. Right? It’s like, I need a PDF that my company created in the last twelve months, I’m going to jump onto Google and I’m going to search something like: site is, type is dot PDF. Now the problem with that, which the three of us are very well aware of, is that, Google itself is indexing what’s relevant over time not what’s relevant today. Not what my marketing team actually wants me to go out and use, right.
And you know beyond there we see other tragic flaws that happen. All three of us know one maybe two call to actions, right? That’s what we want to drive, one outcome. But how many emails have we all gotten from sales reps that have like seven hyperlinks. It’s like click here, then click here, then click here. I call- I personally call it the black and blue email. It looks like a bruise. It just looks like blue hyperlinks and black text, right. It’s like what my wife tells me I can’t wear together, black and blue. And it’s just like- it’s because we’re not arming them. We need to arm them with better ways to find content, to embed content, to you know create content on the fly that’s going to resonate with the audience.
Tyler: Yeah, and I couldn’t agree more, and I think the real challenge there is, you know what do you do that’s prescriptive vs. allows them to be flexible with it and customize it based on their needs. And I still struggle with that myself. So I could create a portal of our top ten assets and say here’s what you should be sharing and here’s the place to find them, but the feedback is often, well but I only want this one, that one and this video and this PDF. And so I think that fine balance is empowering reps to have that flexibility but giving them a framework to do it. Which is, you know I know something is near and dear to your heart Randy at Uberflip and again Matt are you guys seeing this in practice where marketing is empowering sales with a bit of a framework but the ability for them to customize what’s being shown where and maybe creating custom helps for them and things like that?
Matt: I mean the short answer is yes, we’re seeing that but I think the execution can sometimes be bumpy.
Tyler: Right.
Matt: So how do you actually balance making sure someone has the flexibility to customize something A) so it’s relevant to the prospect, B) so that the sales team feels comfortable using it, without like neutering the value of the message, the offer, the angle that you’re using, right? And so finding that balance is difficult. And I tend to think of that balance as the eighty/twenty rule right. You put the principle in place and say well listen, like some sales reps are going to abuse this, some are going to go a little too far, but if they do that it probably means I haven’t taught them well enough. I haven’t taught them where the guidelines are and what the opportunity cost is of not getting that right. You know that training and education is on both sales and marketing to do. And that is not something that you’re going to do in a five minute conversation in the SKO.
So this is complicated, this takes time. But I think if this becomes part of the culture in the organization. As marketing has an active role in enabling the sales team with the right content, tools, and processes. As the sales team embraces that and makes that part of their culture, makes that part of not just marketing’s half hour at the SKO, but part of the daily, monthly, weekly, rhythm of training and reinforcement. And part of the sales teams’ process not marketing’s push into the sales team process. Then it starts to work a lot better.
And so this is- I think for people listening to this, that might feel a little intimidated by: boy, how do I actually climb this mountain? You know, find base camp, right. Find the first step. How do you actually create better content that’s sales team is going to use. What kind of tools can you enable the team with? How do you develop a better cadence of communication at least with sales leadership, if not the entire sales team on why better content matters. And why focus on personas at different stages of the buying process matters. I mean start somewhere, don’t assume you’re going to fix your golf swing in one thirty minute lesson but start to make some process.
Randy: I love that thinking, and that’s a great way to kind of summarize a lot of what we’ve talked about today. We’ve got like a minute or two left here Matt. And I think people have gotten to get a bit of a taste of your passion for this space, but now let’s get to know some of your passions outside of this space. So we talked about whiskey, is that- is good whiskey your drink of choice? What’s your drink of choice? And I should know this because we’ve been at a enough conferences where we’ve had a drink together, but you know. What’s someone going to order you to get your attention?
Matt: Yeah, I’m a beer and whiskey guy. So for me, you know, a good red ale and a really nice bourbon, a nice smooth bourbon, like a- those are the two drinks that I’ll usually go for. If you put a Manhattan in front of me I’m not going to object at all.
Randy: Fantastic. All right, so bourbon, you start to think like, you know bourbon is coming back strong. But I still have thoughts of like farmland and things like that. Tell us about how farmland plays into your life.
Matt: Boy so, about two and a half years ago my wife and I bought a little over a half an acre outside of Seattle. So not a huge plot of land but you know on that half an acre is a hundred and ten year old farmhouse. Literally an old farmhouse. That used to be on- that used to manage a lot more of the land around us. So we’ve just kind of converted it into sort of our own little plot of land. We’ve got two bunnies, ten chickens, we’ve got a little orchard corner of the property. We’ve got a bunch of- built up a bunch of garden beds that we do all kinds of sort of fruit and produce over the summer. And you know we’ve got three young kids and it’s just this awesome place. Sort of our own little corner of paradise that is still very much within, you know, metro area circles to get to work and to get to everywhere else we need to go.
Randy: I love that. So we’ll finish with a myth that you’ll dispel for us one way or another. Are rabbits really- like do they eat carrots all day long is that true? Or what’s their go to food?
Matt: Well, they can. So our rabbits are nine weeks old and so we’re- we’ve got them actually on a combination of timothy hay and a little bit of sort of baby rabbit food. You know they will eat, carrots for sure. From what I can tell the crack for rabbits, the food they cannot get enough of is oatmeal. Like literally you put a little bit of oatmeal in front of a sleeping rabbit it will wake up and devour it.
Randy: Wow.
Randy: Did that happen by accident? Like one of your kids left their oatmeal or this was intentionally planned.
Matt: No we were told this. As you kind of learn what does it take to actually have rabbits. I mean they’re pretty low maintenance animals but they just love their oatmeal. So, we’re told that and I can tell you definitively that is true.
Randy: That’s amazing. Awesome. Matt this has been great as always. I love your passion. And both Tyler and I always rely on you for helping us in our companies in terms of how we scale and how we educate people. I encourage other people to reach out to you. What’s the best website for people to find you at?
Matt: Well you can just find us at it’s Heinz like the ketchup, H-E-I-N-Z . On Twitter @heinzmarketing and I’m just directly at Matt M-A-T-T .
Randy: Amazing Matt. I’m Randy Frisch from Uberlip, I’ve been having Tyler Lessard with me as always from Vidyard. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast check out all the other great podcasts we have at . Again this is a convince and convert podcast so there’s a whole bunch of other great content available at convince and convert. If you enjoyed this leave us a review where you download your podcast, be it on iTunes, or Stitcher, or Google Play, let us know what you like. Let us know what you can make better. And until next time, thanks for listening to Content Pros.

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