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How to Solve the Problem of Measuring Content
Chris Sietsema, Digital Marketing Consultant at Teach to Fish Digital, and Chris Book, Managing Partner at Metrics Agency, join the Content Experience Show to discuss solutions to measuring content and why creators should hold the responsibility.
In This Episode:
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Full Episode Details
Who Should Be Measuring Content?
While content marketing has become a widely accepted idea, we seem to be a little hazier when it comes to measuring content. Collaboration often feels a little less cut-and-dry when we mix creatives with more logically-minded people.
Content is not uniform, and different pieces are created for different purposes—and even for different audiences. Measuring content should happen at the stage in the funnel for which it’s intended and should account for the goals of each piece.
Because of this murkiness, it’s the creator’s job to do the measuring. After all, they are by far the most familiar with the goals and intent of the content, while also being the most invested in fighting for it. In addition, by measuring content they have already created, they can gain far more insight into how they should create their next piece of content!
In This Episode
- Why effectively measuring content is a persistent problem.
- Why content should be analyzed based on the stage of the funnel for which it is intended.
- How to approach content from a leadership position.
- Who should be in charge of measuring content.
- What main factors to consider when measuring content.
- Why content creators should be responsible for measuring their own content.
Quotes From This Episode
The best way to best way to ask about the customer journey is to actually talk to people who are going through that journey. Click To Tweet“If you’re at the top of an organization, you have to make sure that you’re tapping into the minds of the people that are ultimately creating the content. They’re the smart people. You need to find a way to let them do their jobs.” — @ChrisBook
Resources
Content Experience Lightning Round
If you could be a character or live through something from Disney, what would it be?
Anna is a big fan of spooky things! She would love to be the bust in the graveyard of The Haunted Mansion.
Chris Book is fond of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, not so much because he wants to be a pirate, but because he loves how cool and refreshing the ride is in the middle of the summer!
Chris Sietsema says he would love to be Rafiki! He’s a well-rounded character—very wise with a healthy grasp of Kung Fu.
Randy would choose to be Aladdin for his perseverance and undying optimism!
See you next week!
Episode Transcript
Randy: Welcome to the ConEx Show. This is the Content Experience. I'm Randy, Anna's with me, and as always we wanted to give you a little bit of a sneak peek of what's to come on this week's episode. Now, we have Chris, and we have Chris, not to be confused as the same person, Chris Sietsema and Chris Book, and the two of them are great at digging into metrics and measurement and what is the point, as we put it, of all this content that we're creating. And yeah, we actually had some fun debates during this one, Anna.
Anna: Yeah, we had a lot of great stuff to talk about. Now, first off, just as a quick preview, for those of you who are tuning in and looking to get what button do I click on analytics, or what should my average time on page be, that's not going to be this podcast. This is a much more strategic way to look at measurement. It's the way that we should be looking at measurement, and there's so much great advice in here. So even though you're not going to get some of those really tactical, nitty gritty, here's how you measure a blog posts, here's how you measure social posts, this is the absolute foundation for content metrics that everybody needs.
Randy: Absolutely. I think the way we walked through this was even starting with the messaging from leadership, and how does leadership have to set the expectation that the content we create matters? But to me the even more interesting part was in the second half, where we dug into this idea of who is responsible for measuring content. And I just want to put it on the record, I was just being the shit disturber. I fully agreed with the three of you, I never got the opportunity to redeem myself within the podcast. And as you listen in, you'll know what I'm talking about. This is a bit of a long one. Why don't we just roll. Anna, you got to bring in the Chrises. So we'll go live right here.
Anna: Hey Chris and Chris, it's so great to have you guys here. Thanks for being on.
Chris Sietsema: Thank you for having us.
Anna: I love just the combination of people on the call today because we can get real nerdy about metrics. I'm real excited to do that. But before we do so, would you guys mind just giving everybody a little bit about yourselves?
Chris Sietsema: Sure. I'll go first. This is Chris Sietsema. I am a digital marketer with almost 20 years of experience, which sounds kind of crazy. Focused a lot recently in email and analytics and I've worked closely with my friend Chris Book.
Chris Book: There you go, that was succinct, right to the point. I had a little bit of a different path than Chris Sietsema. Chris and I worked together years ago, when when my career was relatively new, right out of college actually, in the agency world of the marketing agency world on the digital side of things, and then I deviated from that. I ended up on the client side working with the Walt Disney Company, and from there started a couple of companies, went into the SCUS world, and then ultimately went on to business school. When I got out of business school I led corporate strategy and restructuring and a variety of other things, and ultimately served as the Head of Expense Management for Sears Holdings Company, which is the parent company of Sears and Kmart. And then following that, Chris Sietsema and I got together and that ultimately is what created Metrics Agency, the company where we collectively work now.
Anna: I have so many questions I want to ask you about Disney, but I won't because that's an entirely separate podcast. So Metrics Agency. You also have a podcast, which is amazing, which I love, which is Mayhem to Measurement, and you guys talk a lot about metrics and content metrics. And this is something, again, as I mentioned at the top of our our our call here, I'm excited to nerd out about because I'm sure you all have seen the statistics and the metrics, no pun intended, but every year Content Marketing Institute releases their massive State of Content Marketing Report and every single year it's the same story, where the number one problem every single marketer is facing is how do we measure all of this stuff that we're doing? Why is this a constant problem? Why is this something that we cannot seem to solve?
Chris Sietsema: I think part of the problem is the origin of the content, and where it's coming from. I think that too often, and I'm just guessing here in some situations, but I've seen this happen in a couple of different organizations that we've worked with as well, in that content is developed from a very specific question that a customer or prospect is asking. But there's not a lot of thought about, all right, where is that customer or prospect in their own personal journey? And how should we measure that according to where they are in that journey?
Chris Sietsema: So a lot of times content gets lambasted for not producing sales or leads or whatever, which is totally unfair in many cases because, depending upon the context of that content, that's not what it's supposed to do. So a lot of times I don't think we really think about what the purpose of the content is. And especially when reporting up to the C-suite for example, they just want to see like, all right, how many sales did we get? How much revenue we're getting from all this stuff you're doing? And depending upon what the content's purpose is, we can't really do that. It's earlier in the journey. It's more upstream. And so aligning the metrics accordingly is really important.
Randy: So I-
Chris Book: Yeah, it's definitely leadership problem from a large organization perspective. And what would I mean by that is people have mortgages to pay, they don't really want to rock the boat, so they want to do exactly what their superiors want them to do. And as a result they get caught in this trap of creating this piece of content, we want to be able to show you x, y, and z, exactly what it did. And the fallacy with that is that you become so focused on justifying your existence within the organization that you lose perspective of what exactly that content's supposed to do. Or better yet, what the customer perspective actually is with that. And so when we start living organizationally on a spreadsheet, rather than in the minds of our customers, we tend to get lost. And that really is where this big measurement issue emerges, at least on the content side.
Randy: So I want to dig deeper in there, but we skipped over something very important right out of the gate here, Anna. Which is, how do people address you in the same office? Like, you guys work together. Is it like a CS versus CB, do one of you just embrace the last name? Is there a Christopher amongst us? How do we do this?
Chris Sietsema: When we're in the same office, he's just addressed as the good looking one, and I'm addressed as ... yeah. If we're in person. Otherwise-
Randy: Very humble of you.
Chris Sietsema: Thank you. It does get kind of complicated though when we're on the phone for sure.
Randy: All right, we'll go CS and CB for today.
Chris Book: There are people to this day that I've known literally my whole life that don't know what my first name is. It's been Book my entire existence.
Randy: All right, all right.
Anna: Love that.
Chris Book: It's sort of become the common vernacular.
Randy: Back to the intro that you guys just set up. And I love it because we're not wasting time here. There's gonna be no BS on this episode. We're not going to waste time talking about how we shouldn't just measure how many views an asset got, but we have to actually contextualize it to, I think as CS said, the stage of the buyer journey that we're in. And I guess my first question is how are marketers even attempting to do this today? Are they not even trying? Or those who are trying, how have you seen them try and hack away at this?
Chris Sietsema: In terms of measuring pieces of content and what their true effectiveness is, on whatever it is that trend is that you're talking about? So how do they ...
Randy: What I liked, your point is, some of that content may be really geared and helping at the top of the funnel versus bottom of the funnel. That's what I, when you said stage of their journey, that's what I'm thinking. So whether it's a consumer product, like I'm looking to get a new iPhone for the holidays, or if it's a B2B purchase, like software, there's different stages in which I might be at in terms of my research.
Chris Sietsema: Sure, so we've all been to marketing school or at least are aware of what the funnel or that journey is, and typically it's explained as attention, interest, desire, and action. Typically I think that's somewhat helpful. I found it actually more helpful to explain it like this: where you have a catalyst or a trigger, something that spurs on an interest in purchasing a product, or at least investigating purchase of that product. Then you move into this passive exploration phase in which you're looking, you're gaining some information, and this is the part where content actually comes into play quite a bit.
Chris Sietsema: You move from passive to active exploration where it's like, all right, I know what I want. I'm just trying to finalize my criteria here and really start to make a decision. And then you move into deciding. So you pick between a couple of options, and then experiencing and advocacy. That's how I view the journey, I'll explain it that way, but depending upon where you're at, whether you're at catalyst or passive exploration or active exploration or deciding or experiencing or advocacy, content has a role to play there. And so number one is understanding what this particular asset does and where it fits in that funnel.
Chris Sietsema: A lot of content that we develop now is primarily to help people answer really specific questions as they're going through that exploration phase. However, how do they even get to the exploration phase? Maybe we can use content as a catalyst or a trigger. And so, understanding primarily where that content fits helps us measure it correctly and fairly. And so that we're not comparing one piece of content or one asset that's supposed to just allow people to investigate on their own, against a piece of content that's really going to encourage sales and drive conversion because it's two totally different things.
Anna: I'm such an advocate for the customer journey regardless of what it is, whether it's in that basic, typical funnel as you described, or even of going way deep into journey maps. But I can say firsthand from being on the other side, and being on the content creation side, that that is definitely not the model that people adopt, and I completely agree with you that people do just ... Unfortunately we get tasked with this thing of, well we need x piece of content to create x piece of thing, and then it's just sort of done. So how do you get organizations tostop and slow down and think about this? Because that's not even just a strategy change. That's almost an organizational shift, which sometimes are the most difficult part, especially for content creators, content marketers. It's just, it's so hard. So how do you get that organizational shift going?
Chris Book: Well, hopefully, the question we ask typically right out of the gate is, can we take a look at your customer journey? Do you have any documentation that says, here's how customers move from point A to point Z? In most cases, thankfully, knock on wood, they they have something, whether it's perfect or not, we don't necessarily know. In cases where they don't, we actually have to walk through that process with them and start asking questions. And not only ask them, the customer, our clients questions, but actually ask their customers questions. Because in my opinion, the best way to best way to ask about the customer journey is to actually talk to people who are going through that journey.
Anna: Word.
Chris Book: And understand what hurdles and questions and purpose they have throughout that whole thing. So, that's the foundation right? Without that, it's very difficult to really understand how to measure content appropriately and accurately without muddying the waters to a great degree.
Anna: For sure. Chris Book, just curious, how did you handle all this when you were at your organization? 'Cause you have so much client-set experience, and I say that because I'm typically agent-side, but you have so much organizational experience, how did you guys handle all of this, and even mapping content and measuring it and looking at journey-flows and the purpose of content versus just sort of at the end of the day what it brought in?
Chris Book: Well, it's a leadership problem ultimately and that's my defact answer for just about everything, I generally fall back on the idea of leadership. From an organizational perspective, at the top you have to be able to set the tone to make people comfortable doing what they know is right. True content professionals know the right things to do, generally speaking. Generally they're thinking about things the right way, and when there starts to be friction is when they are doing things that they think meet your expectations of the way you would like things done, even though they know better. And that frankly is a little bit of a problem, so, one, if you're at the top of an organization, you absolutely have to make sure that you're tapping into the minds of the people that are ultimately creating the content or doing the work. They're the smart people, you need to find a way to let them do their jobs.
Chris Book: Two, depending on the industry you're in, there can be a little bit of a shift in that regard. Taking retail for instance. Retail is an industry that while we're very comfortable with e-commerce now, still has a very archaic and very analog undertone to it all. And so the idea of using content and using things that aren't one hundred percent perfectly measurable from a conversion perspective, and are a little bit [inaudible 00:12:57], and so, if you're at the top of the organization, helping a board understand and educating the rest of your executive team are absolutely paramount to do that. But when it comes to the people creating the content, like I said, they know what's right, and your job is not to tell them what to do, it's to get out of their way and help them do their jobs better.
Randy: Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. When I'm not podcasting and running the team here, which, every one in a while I find some time to do. We actually had this realization, and it kind of came out of nowhere one day where, the term we try to sell to our buyers is around Content Experience, right? Which, it's a buzz word, it's growing, that's the name of this podcast, but one of the things we realized is is that not everyone is searching for that, right? Like I started to have this joke which was like if a tree falls in the forest does it make a noise? It's like, if there's an event and Randy's not there, is anyone actually talking about content experience?
Randy: What we ultimately landed on was that we needed to kind of lead with content that was more on the thoughts and Trojan Horse in our topic. So for those listening, your topic may not be content experience, but, I think the point being put here is sometimes leadership has to step up and say okay, what are we gonna lead with? And then, when do we pull in the right content to get them to consider our actual solution?
Randy: And I think that, to C.S's earlier point, it's what triggers, what is that catalyst up at the beginning versus when do we actually start to inject the content that's more relevant to the topic, or the buying decision that's at hand.
Randy: I'd love to dig a little more into that, but I think we need time for a short break, we'll hear from some of our sponsors, then we'll pick this conversation back up. I'd love to hit on who owns this decision and who owns this measurement inside the organization.
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Randy: We are back here with the Chris's, we are talking about measurement of content, and yes, we have to make sure that our investment is proving worthwhile. The question that we kind of ended off before the break was, who's responsible for all this? Chris Book kind of said that we need to empower leaders, we need those leaders to focus on this. You need to set that tone, but end of the day, who do you find most often on the team is charged with digging into the measurement, is it the content marketer who's often maybe an author?
Chris Sietsema: Absolutely, yep. It's typically people who are on the front-lines. Like, you produced this content, you published this content, you promoted it, now you have to measure it to.
Chris Sietsema: Which is why we say, in terms of folks on the client side and the clients on the agency side that we work with, like everybody should do analytics. Everybody should have the ability to measure.
Chris Sietsema: So in most cases, yeah, everybody's responsible for their own stuff, and their own silo. But that also leads to kind of a bigger problem in that there's a silo to begin with. So when we find that we kind of try to shake that up a little bit, and have someone at the manager or director level ultimately responsible for bringing all those metrics together, so they tell one cohesive story about what's really happening.
Chris Sietsema: But to answer your original question, it's typically somebody who is actually doing the promotion. We don't find too often that the analyst is charged with measuring content. Typically, analysts within the organization have bigger metrics fish to fry, and the content kind of gets left by the wayside, or left for the content marketing people to measure.
Chris Book: What's a really important point, just in the sense that if you're the person creating that content, you need to fight very hard to make sure that people understand the value of it. There's a little bit of an educational responsibility on you to educate up the chain of command to make them understand why this is a vital part, or why it's a vital piece of the puzzle.
Chris Book: And, I don't know that frankly at the higher levels of companies most people even understand what's being done from a content perspective. They see it and they think, "Ah yeah, that's cool, great video," whatever. But I don't think they understand the role that plays. And so, while you are obviously measuring your content and creating more content, you've gotta spend equal time educating people within your organization as to why it's it important, 'cause that's gonna pay dividends for you many times over down the road.
Anna: Totally agree. And that's something that, as I was coming up as a writer, I just had to learn how to do. Because what I've found, and I'm sure a lot of other people, I'm sure you all see this all the time is, you're sort of left with a writer who is creating the content but then has to measure it, but then SCO comes in and says well we did this part so we should get credit for that. And [inaudible 00:18:34] comes in and says well we drove this much amount of traffic, so we should get this credit, and it sort of starts to get picked apart by all these different departments or divisions or roles. So, where do you actually recommend that people begin, and start to look at content more holistically, and start to break down those silos and start to bridge with other teams? Like, where can people just start to learn how to measure content the right way?
Chris Sietsema: Again, I think it comes down to the foundational goal of what that content is supposed to do. Understanding what the objective is. But when you break it down a little bit further, I think content measurement can be viewed a few different ways. Number one, can I find it? Is it easily accessible wherever it's supposed to be easily accessible. And then once you've actually accessed it, or if you're on that page or that experience where you're supposed to interact with that content or download it or hit the play button, whatever that mode is for the content, can you actually do so? Is it merchandised well?
Chris Sietsema: And so a lot of what we do from a metrics stand point is find that, well people got to it. They found it. They just didn't do anything with it, they couldn't find the download button. So the usability component comes in quite a bit too. Then it's the experience part, so that actually, of those people that played with that widget or watched that video, or downloaded that white paper or whatever the mode in that production is, we try and keep track of who those people are, and understand well alright, they experienced that piece of content, then what did they do? And then what happened next? Because if that content is doing its job, typically, like we talked about earlier, it's moving that person along into the next phase of their journey down that marketing funnel.
Chris Sietsema: So typically, it's find it, access it, and experience it. And hopefully, this doesn't happen too often, I don't know if you guys find it as well but, advocacy and sharing content, we definitely want to measure it and look for it, but it's something that doesn't happen in terms of the same volume as we see people experience things. I don't know if you guys find that as well.
Randy: Yeah, first of all, this is absolutely the tune that I love to talk to all the time. This is content experience, and that's something that I think is so overlooked. We're talking a lot about who owns this, it's a real question and a real challenge.
Randy: I'm gonna challenge, and I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree, I'm just gonna be a shit-disturber, just for the hell of it here. So we were saying earlier, and you said people have to learn the analytical side, right? But, is that fair? I mean we always hear people talking about left-brain and right-brain, so these creative people who can write an amazing piece of content, how deep should they be expected to go into measurement?
Randy: So I don't know, maybe Book, you can weight in on this. Do you see people adapting well to this, is it a reasonable expectation, or should we have a different role in the organization to own measurement?
Chris Book: It does depend on the organization, and looking at the truly creative people, there's certainly a faction of them that are resistant to the measurement side of it. They wanna be creative and they almost feel constrained. If you're gonna put this measurement layer on it, it's going to inhibit my artistic process ... I don't know, I'm not a creative person so I don't know what that's like, but, for truly creative people who have had an open mind with this who have come to the measurement side, they're actually better analysts. They really are. And part of it is just because they're able to through their creative genes look at things very differently than most people do and that enables them to get to levels of an insight that those of us that are doing it every day and following a typical analytics process can't do.
Chris Book: And so I guess the takeaway from this is if you're truly creative, take that creativity and apply it to the way you measure things as well because you're going to be very, very effective. Probably better than most people that have been measuring things their entire careers.
Chris Sietsema: Just to add something there too, I agree with everything that Chris just said, especially on the creative side where they become actually really excellent measurement people primarily because those metrics unveil what their next creative piece should be or what it should involve.
Chris Sietsema: And I think, yes, I think we should. I think we should expect that of those folks especially if they want to take credit for the good work that they're doing. Is that fair? I don't know if it's fair or not but if they want to continue doing great work, I think they should have to prove their value and their role in producing materials that encourage action and inspire buy behavior or whatever the objective is, right?
Chris Sietsema: So I think that's okay and that's part of our challenge in terms of how we teach and instruct and consult with people who are new, and a little bit unfamiliar with metrics. Because let's be honest, it can be kind of scary. Like, if you look at Google Analytics, it's like a rat's nest in there sometimes, right. So all that can be very confusing and convoluting and so we try and kind of break it down into very specific and workable pieces that simplify thing and just make it a lot easier. We also try and add humor and levity to the conversation, too, so there's not as much stress and worry and fear involved when it's time to actually jump into those metrics.
Anna: Nice.
Chris Book: If you're a creative person or let's say you're a content marketer, why wouldn't you want to measure? Because the whole reason your role exists and the whole reason you're playing your creativity fist is to influence people. So if that's the goal, you would want to measure. You're not creating content purely to express yourself and make yourself happy, it's an entirely different type of creative endeavor, I think.
Anna: I was actually going to take it a step further and just put a stake in the ground right now because coming from the content creation side, the creative side, I actually absolutely think it's a necessity. I don't think it's an option anymore. I don't think that content creators can just sit back and write content and then have it do whatever and then get their assignments.
Anna: From sound experience, learning all those metrics, knowing how to read them, understanding the pathways that people get to it, I was able to fight for content. I was able to fight for strategy and justify things that other people didn't want to do that I knew was a success. And so I actually am just going to go ahead and take it all away and say, I don't think it's an option anymore. I just think it should happen and needs to happen.
Anna: And Book, I agree with you completely. You know, it's to further their career, and it's to empower them. It's a good thing.
Chris Book: There's no downside to it.
Anna: No. There really isn't.
Chris Sietsema: I'm with you, Anna. I think the content marketer's job is not to ... Or the content creator's job is not to create content; it's to create content that really works. You can't prove that it work without some of those metric and analytics to say, here's what we did and here's why we should continue to do it. So you could make a case especially internally when it's time to get more budget are more time or more resources to create more amazing stuff.
Anna: Yeah, absolutely.
Anna: So now that we've put the stake in the ground, guys, thank you so much for joining us. You guys gave us so much information and so much great perspective. I love that we jumped into this conversation not about, you know, what numbers to look at and what buttons to click in Google Analytics, but to actually start to bring this conversation about measurement up to a strategic level and get everybody on the right path.
Anna: For more in-depth conversations, people can actually follow you on your podcast. Where can they listen to it?
Chris Book: You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play. Pretty much everywhere.
Chris Book: Mayhem to Measurement is the name of the podcast. You can also find us on or find the podcast on our site at: metricsagency.com.
Anna: Nice. So you got double Chris every week on the podcast.
Anna: Guys, thank you so much again for being here. We would love to have you stick around. Now that we've talked about all this great professional stuff, we're going to get to know you some more with a little bit of like silly personal questions and fun facts. So stick around everybody and we're going to be right back with Chris and Chris.
Randy: Alright, so we know that the Chrises are only distinguishable by looks so far. But we want to get to know you a little bit better and get to know the people behind. So I was trying to think of something unique that would cross both of you, and I'm going to pick up on something that Book said earlier which was he worked at Disney and Anna wanted to go there. So I'm going to go there. For each of us, we are going to disclose over the next two minutes one of two things. Either if you were a Disney character who would you be? Right. And if you can't think of that because there's so many great characters, if you could live through an animated Disney film, which one would you want to live through?
Randy: Anna, you could even go first. Like, if you want. So that we give our guests the luxury of having a little bit of time-
Anna: Oh, yeah.
Randy: To really identify themselves for the rest of their lives as Disney characters.
Anna: Okay.
Anna: So, I mean I guess if I were to be a Disney character, I'm a big fan of like all things spooky and scary. So I mean, I'm going to go a little bit off your question and I'm going to go with a ride because I'm much more of like a Disneyland fanatic.
Randy: That's alright. We'll let it slide.
Anna: Okay.
Anna: So I would definitely be in the haunted mansion. Potentially as the bust in the graveyard. I think that's fun because I love that song.
Randy: Or dark. Dark. But okay.
Anna: Yeah.
Anna: Yeah, I think I would go haunted mansion. I'd be like a character in there freaking people out.
Randy: Alright. Cool, cool. Alright, booklets ready. It feels ready. I can see them even though we're doing this podcast through audio, but what have you got?
Chris Book: I would change from where I was at a few years ago. So with the Incredibles 2, which I believe recently came out, I saw a lot of adults dressed up as members of the Incredibles on Halloween and that bothered me because years ago I commandeered a very authentic Mr. Incredible outfit and that was my signature for a long time. It was great for weddings or showing up at random dinners with people you didn't really like.
Randy: Nice. Nice.
Chris Book: So, that was great. But now that everybody's walking around as Mr. Incredible I think that's out. So something on the ride thing a little bit. I would go Pirates of the Caribbean. And the ride, not the movie, because there were plenty of days when I would have meetings down at Disneyland, so I'd drop down from the office in Burbank and go to Disneyland. Anaheim is very, very hot in the summer. You know, traffic in L.A. is bad, so you're up really early getting out of there and all that, so you are kind of tired. So when we would break for lunch, I would sneak across the street and just the Pirate's Ride because it's 65 degrees and humid and damp and very comfortable in there and I would spread out in the back row in one of those boats and do two or three laps and catch a little bit of a nap-
Randy: That's amazing.
Chris Book: [inaudible 00:29:13] in the afternoon. So having actually lived that out, I think that's the way to go.
Randy: Amazing. A pirate's life it shall be.
Randy: Alright, Chris, what have you got?
Chris Sietsema: I have a quick question for the other Chris real quick because I don't think I've ever asked him this before. Did you ever go to the what is that private room in the French Quarter in Disney-
Anna: Club 33.
Chris Book: No, I did not. It is oddly exclusive.
Anna: And swanky.
Chris Book: When I was there, there was the story that I believe, this is the story I was told, I don't know if it's 100% true. But apparently, Kobe Bryant who was still playing with the Lakers at the time, tried to get in there and was turned away.
Randy: Wow.
Chris Book: I don't know how valid that is but apparently it's very exclusive.
Randy: Maybe it was at a questionable time in his career. [crosstalk 00:29:56]
Randy: Chris, what have you got?
Chris Sietsema: I'm assuming that everybody on the call has seen The Lion King?
Randy: Yes.
Chris Sietsema: I would think it would go with that money, that Rafiki guy.
Randy: Nice.
Chris Sietsema: The guy who holds up Simba. I would definitely pick him. He seems like he's pretty wise and he's got a good sense of humor, and I think if I remember correctly, he knows kung fu. So all those seem like pretty fun qualities that I definitely admire.
Randy: Amazing. I like Rafiki.
Chris Sietsema: I'd pick Rafiki, yeah.
Randy: Yeah, that's great. I just took my son to see the Lion King in New York about a month or two ago. It was great.
Chris Sietsema: Awesome.
Randy: It's great.
Randy: Alight, I'll finish off only because I'm excited of this new video to come out in real life animation or whatever it's known as now. I hit that terminology wrong, but Aladdin. Aladdin is just all the perseverance. Nothing set him down, and never stop trying. I love that. I love that mentality. So, I'm going to go with that, and I'm definitely going to be seeing Aladdin when it comes out.
Randy: I considered like Will Smith or something, right?
Anna: Yeah, he's the genie I think.
Chris Sietsema: Yeah.
Randy: Genie. Nice. Nice. That'll be great.
Randy: Well, guys thanks so much for joining us and also for having a little fun with us at the end here. Always fun to talk Disney and metrics in the same podcast which happens all the time.
Randy: If you've enjoyed this podcast, please tune into the rest of our episodes that are everywhere you can find a podcast from Spotify to iTunes and Stitcher. And until next time, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Conex show. I'm Randy. Anna by my side. With two Chrises. Take care.
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