How to Squeeze the Boring Out of Your Social Media

Andrew Pickering and Pete Gartland, Co-Founders of Andrew And Pete, join the Social Pros Podcast to discuss how a unique and consistent content stamp can launch your brand to new heights.

In This Episode:


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Full Episode Details

Be Better Than Better

The quest for better content has claimed the sanity of many social media marketers. With so many platforms and so much noise, it is hard to know how to be the best.

Andrew and Pete know that it takes more than being the best. It takes being different to get noticed.

Standing apart from the crowd means embracing and sharing that which makes you uniquely you. People talk about what (or who) surprises them and somebody who is simply better at social media is not worth sharing. But somebody that has a unique voice on their blog? Now that’s worth talking about.

Getting to that likeable shareable point will not happen by chance. Success is not stumbled upon and viral status doesn’t have to be an accident. Andrew and Pete have literally scheduled the boring right out of their brand and made success a task in their calendar.

Their deceptively simple approach to engaging and motivating social through scheduled difference has rocketed this duo to the top of their game.

In This Episode

  • How being a little bit more human leads to less of a barrier between you and your customers
  • Why creating standout content means being better or being different
  • How a schedule for success actually leads to success in half the time
  • Why tripling or quadrupling your click-through rate means moving content with chatbots


Quotes From This Episode

“Let’s face it, most content is a little bit boring, a little bit dry, a little bit dull.” —@AndrewAndPete

“You’re going to talk about the different thing because it shocked you. Whereas if it’s better, you might tell people if they ask but you’re not going to go shout about it.” —@AndrewAndPete

“Consistency in brand aesthetics is very important because no matter where people come across us, they know instantly whether they want to work with us or not.” —@AndrewAndPete

If you want success, don't just wait for it to happen. Schedule it in. Click To Tweet

“The moment that we started to incorporate more of our brand into our blogs, that’s when things started to happen for us.” —@AndrewAndPete

If you can deliver and distribute your content through a Messenger bot, you can get instant interaction. Click To Tweet

“The more content that we create, the bigger our business grows.” —@AndrewAndPete

“If you’re not doing something a little bit better than everyone else, then it’s going to be really, really tough.” —@AndrewAndPete

“The cost of failing is always tiny, but yet it puts people off.” —@AndrewAndPete



See you next week!

Influencer Marketing Mistakes Great Brands Don't Make

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Episode Transcript

Jay: Welcome everybody to Social Pros, the podcast for real people doing real work in social media. I am as always Jay Baer from Convince and Convert, not today joined by my friend Adam Brown from Salesforce Marketing Cloud. He is off on vacation. I am flying solo today ladies and gentlemen, but that's fine because we have not just one, but two guests on the show today. They are Andrew Pickering and Peter Gartland, also known as the dynamic duo from across the pond, the content marketing and social media superstars from the UK. It is Andrew and Pete. Gents, how are you?
Andrew: Really good. Thank you. Really good.
Pete: That's a great intro.
Andrew: We're going to double team you on this episode.
Jay: Okay. I like that. I like how you coordinate your woo hoo's. That's impressive. That's good.
Andrew: We got that down by this point.
Jay: You guys are spending too much time together.
Andrew: Yeah. Way too much time.
Pete: That's what his girlfriend always says.
Andrew: Yeah.
Jay: I'm sure that's true. How long have you guys been working together now?
Andrew: We have been working together now for six, seven years now. We met in 2011 though. No. 2008 actually we met.
Pete: Yeah. It's 2008.
Andrew: 2008.
Pete: Almost our 10 year meeting anniversary.
Andrew: That's crazy. We graduated uni in 2011 and that's when we kind of set up and got ourselves going.
Jay: I love it. That is the exact same time that Social Pros started as well. We are on the same timeline.
Andrew: Perfect.
Jay: Tell us a little bit about the firm and the things that you do. I know a lot of people who spend time in the content marketing and social media universe are aware of the dynamic duo of Andrew and Pete, but for Social Pros listeners who haven't had the pleasure, give them a little background.
Pete: We love to help companies create better content, okay? When we say better, we mean more remarkable content. We look to help people create highly engaging, highly shareable content. Because let's face it, most content is a little bit boring, a little bit dry, a little bit dull. There's so much content out there these days that how can anybody who's just starting out or getting into this game, how they possibly smash through that barrier of all this content? How can they make their name for themselves? How can people make a difference, get their content seen? Why should people come to you as opposed to someone else that has been doing it for 10 years and they're probably much better than you anyway? I think it's really tough for people in this day and age how they can create great content that's engageable and sharing so that they can grow their audience. That's what we look to do. We do that one-on-one and we do that with our membership site Atomic as well which is our kind of pride and joy. That's where we look to help people the most.
Jay: Your membership community Atomic, people join that and they've got monthly webinars and Q and A calls with you and amongst themselves and that kind of thing.
Andrew: Yeah. It's actually weekly content so it's either a weekly training or it's one-on-one time with us or it's like a group call mastermind. Weekly stuff to help them do all what Pete's just said.
Pete: Weekly awesomeness.
Andrew: Yeah.
Jay: One of the things that people like about your content and your approach is that you don't take yourselves too seriously. That's evident in all the things that you do. Do you think that's the secret to breakthrough content is by being kind of loose and fun with it or is that your style of breaking through with content?
Andrew: I don't think every single person has to be exactly like us. Not everyone has to be. I think a lot of people maybe call us a little bit crazy sometimes, a little bit mad. We definitely don't want to think everybody has to be that, but I think just being a little bit more human. If you can drop a joke here and there, I drop a little bit of the barrier that you put up behind this logo just a little bit to kind of let people in and let people get to know you a bit more.
Pete: I mean where we always start with companies is developing their brand and their brand values, their tone of voice, who they're trying to reach, what's unique and special about them. Once you can kind of set that down, then every other decision becomes so much easier about what to do not just in business, but with your content specifically as well. Part of our brand is that fun element, but for some other people that's totally not the case and that's fine too. The way we want people to be more remarkable and different and standout, there's two ways that you can do that. There's one is to be better and the second way is to be different, okay, or remarkable. If you're better, that's really hard with content, right? How can we make a better podcast than Social Pros Podcast, right? You've been doing this for years.
Jay: Inconceivable.
Pete: Right? You've got all the tech. You've got it all organized. You've got some great guests clearly. How can we make a better podcast than you, right? That's tough, but we could make a completely different podcast. It can be completely different to you. That's something that we're actually looking at, but the idea is what digital brand allow you to do and that's where we start with everybody. It's a complete game changer when people start to think of it like that.
Jay: Sally Hogshead who's a fantastic speaker and author of many best selling books says the different is better than better, right? The different is always better than better because different is inherently more memorable than better.
Pete: You're going to talk about it, right? You're going to talk about the different thing because it shocked you. Whereas if it's better, you might tell people if they ask. It's a good reputation, but you're not going to go shout it out about it, right?
Jay: Yup. That's a good distinction. One of the things that is interesting about the work that you do on your website and your social media, it's for listeners who want to follow along if they're listening and you're a computer, is you have a very specific and consistent design aesthetic that you use in all of your different things. You have a color palette, a thought palette, a layout approach that is unusual and consistent. How did you develop that?
Andrew: It's funny because that's kind of where we got started when we first graduated. It was we were doing a lot of kind of design work and that's kind of how we got into this marketing industry. We were kind of designers first. What things kind of looked like has always been really important to us. I feel like it was really good at the beginning because our stuff would always look amazing where people wouldn't think we were a startup.
Pete: When we first started out all those years ago, we looked about 12.
Jay: You look about 19 now.
Pete: I look 13 now.
Andrew: 18 and a half maybe.
Pete: It was like how are people ever going to trust us. That's where the brand aesthetics kind of came from. We really pushed that a lot. We've got some great photography. We designed everything to be immaculate and consistent, but also the consistency is very important as well because no matter where people come across us, they knew instantly whether they want to work with us or not. Again that's coming from our brand values. Like I said, everything comes back to that. Now when people come on to our Twitter page or our website or our landing page or our Facebook page, they instantly know wow, these guys are amazing. I love them or oh god, no. I'm not going to work with them ever.
Jay: I think that's a really important point, right, to stand for something because if you're trying to serve every market, you're not going to serve any market sufficiently. You're very clear about who your target market is and who your target market isn't. That manifest itself in all the things that you do. Having frankly the courage to say, "Look, we're not going to be the right cup of tea for everybody and we're perfectly okay with that," I think is admirable. Most people especially younger business people don't have that courage. They're just like, "Well, maybe we could do this and maybe we could do that." You end up kind of being flabby and mediocre across the board.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly. If you don't like emojis, you're not going to like working with us.
Jay: If you don't like emojis, you're going to hate Andrew and Pete. I love it. That should be the headline of the website right there.
Andrew: Yeah. It's pretty what we've got.
Jay: The home page should just be a one question survey. On a scale of zero to nine, how much do you like emojis? If it's like eight or nine, they actually get to the second page. Anything less than an eight or nine, the site just ... It disappears. It goes away. It crashes their browser.
Andrew: It just like sends them a ton of emojis. Sad face emoji. Sad face emoji. Sad face emoji.
Jay: Send them a petition. How do you guys decide or how do you split up the work between the two of you? Do you sort of say, "Okay. Somebody writes and somebody designs or somebody does Facebook and somebody does Twitter or somebody does the blog and somebody does the video?" How do you decide who works on everything or do you just staple yourselves together and you both work on everything all the time?
Andrew: Pete uses his left hand. I use my right hand.
Pete: I sit on my ass all day and do nothing. No. It's a great question actually. It's really important because with a lot of business owners it's the number one issue that kind of holds them back from success which is productivity. For us it's a blessing and a curse that there's two of us, right? We've technically got twice as much time because we could be working on different things, but realistically that doesn't work. We have to make twice as much money in that time so we have to be more productive than the average person. We have better creativity and ideas and brainstorming. We can come up with better ideas together, but there's also twice the amount of distractions. I'm looking at you, Andrew. That's something to overcome, but the way we work is we have this motto. It's called schedule for success. If you want success, don't just wait for it to happen. Schedule it in. We know that it's really, really important to work on your business. We always plan out exactly what we want to achieve in our business. Figure out how we're going to do it. Break that down. Then actually put those tasks in the diary on a certain day, time, et cetera and assign it to each person. The moment we started doing this, we started doing this in 2016 probably, the beginning of 2016, 2016 to 17 we did more in that year than the previous five years combined easily. Hands down. It was amazing. We split things up quite a lot, but any like creative brainstorming, we love to do that together. That's like our thing.
Andrew: I don't think necessarily one of us has a specific skillset either. I feel like we can both do everything. It's just maybe some of us enjoys different things more than others, but like social media is a great example. It's like we're both on everything. If you're talking to us on social media, it could be Andrew. It could be Pete. Only the ones that know us really know who's actually talking.
Jay: It's great. You're doing approximately weekly blog posts that are now also videos. It's a YouTube episode that then gets put on your site and then transcribed. Has the blog always been like that? Is has always been sort of a video that becomes a blog post or did you have a traditional sort of written blog at some point?
Andrew: We started with the written blog back in the day. I think we have been doing the YouTube videos consistently for about a year now I would say, weekly YouTube videos that then goes onto the blog. I think video just matches our brand and our personality. As soon as we started doing the videos compared to the written blogs, I feel like that's when things really started happening for us. I feel like that's when people really found out ... Like we were talking about the brands, started really finding out who we were, why we were different, getting a feel for working with us. Got a ton more speaking gigs from people. People or listeners that hadn't even seen us deliver a speech, but they were watching our YouTube videos and just thinking, "God, these guys must be able to speak if they can do those videos." Video for us has been a huge game changer.
Pete: Especially for like gaining fans as well. When we very, very first started writing blogs, god, they were really boring now looking back at it. Just like walls of texts and not even that long. It's like a little bit embarrassing to go back, isn't it, sometimes? Then we started to get better and better and better because we didn't get like anything from blogs for a long time. It was like disappointing, right, because everyone says, "Write a blog and you get business," but it's not. It's not that at all. In fact, it doesn't even work for you after a year, right? I think that's a fantasy, a myth, that content marketers often spout. It's a long-term strategy. Well, it's going to be even longer if that content sucks, right?
Jay: Infinite disappointment.
Pete: Infinitely, right? Infinite strategy. You're never going to win. Honestly, the moment that we started to incorporate more of our brand into our blogs, that's when things started to happen for us. That's when we started getting comments and shares and people like replying to us saying, "Oh, I love your blogs," and all that kind of thing. That's when we started to get excited about it. Then we set it up again with the YouTube videos and that's when people just started to really just crazy fans. We get stuff sent to us like all the time from like people that watch our videos. They send us cards and sweets and God knows what else.
Andrew: Stuff we can't mention.
Pete: Stuff we can't mention. All these fans that we have.
Jay: Your burgeoning bra collection. Now you're doing live video too, right? You're doing YouTube Live and Facebook Live. In fact, you're doing webinars on YouTube Live. Tell us about that a little bit.
Andrew: It was actually we were talking about this. He's actually helped us with our YouTube strategy quite a bit. YouTube Live was always something that ... When we were doing Google Hangouts and Air back in the day and we got quite excited when it integrated with YouTube Live and then we were really unexcited where it was like really, really bogey and just never seemed to work, but recently we've got back into it. At the time of recording we've only done one YouTube Live to our audience, but that went down super well. We were amazed by how many people showed up live. I think YouTube's actually encourage more creators to go live on the platform. I think we got a bit more reach on that video as well with YouTube algorithms.
Pete: We just put on a webinar today. We have not really pushed it, but we just literally did one Tweet about it to talk about messenger bots on our YouTube channel as our webinar which is going to be really fun on the first of August. One of the first people that that signed up to that was you. That was quite nice.
Jay: I will be there. I will be there.
Pete: That's the kind of people that subscribed.
Jay: I will be there on the first of August. I want to talk about that. It's actually great timing because my next question was about Facebook Messenger and you've been using Messenger as a way to get sort of new fangold subscription permission from your audience and to deliver interesting content to your audience through Facebook. It's actually much, much easier than people think. I'll have you talk about that a little bit. I don't want to give away the whole webinar, but kind of talk a little bit about how you're using it to drive content and relationships with your audience?
Pete: Yes. More and more people are going towards these chat apps to talk, right? That's where people are spending so much more time than on social media apps or websites or anything like that. They're actually spending an increasing amount of time just messaging and messaging in groups. It's this whole private kind of social aspect that is really interesting. As we know, email marketing is getting harder and harder and harder to get results from, okay? Open rates are always decreasing, click-through rates are always decreasing, unsubscribe rates, the promotions tab. Oh god. It's the stuff of nightmares, right, for marketers. Some people are dubbing Messenger as like the new email. I don't know if that's true as such. I don't think that's quite there yet.
Andrew: I feel like we still have to cautious. It is Facebook.
Pete: It is Facebook. It's not your own private property there.
Andrew: Let's wait to see how long it lasts before they make it impossible to do anything with it.
Pete: At the moment it's working incredibly well. Open rates for when you do broadcasts from your chat bot to your Messenger subscribers, the open rates are insane. Like 80% to 100% open rate. The click-through rate is like 30 to 50% on average. This is incredible at the moment, right? That's unheard of with email. If you send an email broadcast, I think the industry average is like between 10 and 20% in the advertising industry, marketing industry. 30 to 50% click-through, not even open rate, is stupidly high. That's why we're excited by it. Also, it's incredibly easy to get our subscribers to it. Incredibly easy. I mean it's really easy to set up as well. You might think that all these experts are like, "Oh, Messenger bots and it's all this AI and all this coding what not," but actually there's tool out there like ManyChat for example that make it super, super easy to do.
Andrew: Free. You can ManyChat for free for up to 500 subscribers I think it is.
Pete: Yeah. Something like that.
Jay: It's funny you mention that. We're working on a whole new version on the Convince and Convert site which is not an insignificant circumstances that it's been around for so long and it's so large. We've got thousands and thousands and thousands of pages on the site. It's a little tricky to do a redesign, but our plan is to use ManyChat, which I want to ask you about it, to do podcast notifications. When there's a new episode of Social Pros, we'll ping it to you in Messenger and we just think that's just going to be a good way to kind of stay on people's radar.
Pete: I love that. Maybe an emoji or two on the new website as well because ...
Jay: I'm going to hire Andrew and Pete as the official emoji consultants. Okay. All right. It's funny you say that. Not because of you, although I'm going to give you credit. We changed our email system a week ago where we have a weekly email and we talk about what's going, whatever. Well, for a long time, many, many years that email was sort of written by the Convince and Convert team and now it's written by me. I literally personally write it every Sunday. Here's what I think is cool. Here's the stuff that we made that I think is worth your time and here's stuff that other people have done that I think is worth your time. It comes out Sundays, but every headline in that email includes an emoji now just because we think it's fun. Courtesy of Andrew and Pete and their desire to emojify the world. I have fallen into your clutches of emojis.
Andrew: I want to see a double emoji on the next one and an emoji Andrew and an emoji Pete.
Jay: I'll talk to editorial team.
Pete: All right. Going back to the bots though, I think ...
Andrew: Back on topic.
Pete: Back onto that, yeah. People are using bots for customer service. I don't think that's great, but there is this whole opportunity for more of a content marketing view of that. If you can deliver and distribute your content through a Messenger bot, you can get instant interaction with that, instant interaction, instant opens. When we do this, it's one of those things where you press refresh and instantly you've got 10 people that have viewed it and then 20 and then 50 and then it's like wow, what are these people doing with their lives? They need to be more productive and turn their phone over.
Jay: They're getting on that list. You are giving them the opportunity to "opt-in" for that through some sort of click on your site.
Andrew: Yeah. You can do clicks from the site. You can do clicks within Messenger. It's very similar to kind of email marketing systems where you can target different subscribers. One subscriber might be on like the daily message. One subscribed might be on the weekly message or just message me once a month.
Pete: If you were to send out a piece of content that maybe indicating of potential buying or interacting like that, then you can tag them quite easily and send them follow up sequences all automated. You know what might be also quite cool for you? If you have a Facebook post, you can set it up so that if people comment on that post on Facebook, your bot automatically sends them a message which can get them to subscribe.
Jay: That's cool.
Pete: Which is really awesome. What you could do with the podcast is you could stream your podcast live using Facebook Audio Live, Facebook Live Audio, which is like a new thing coming out, and then you could say, "By the way, if you want to subscribe to this, just type in the word sub in the comment."
Jay: It will automatically do it in the Messenger. Yeah, that's cool. I don't know if I can do this show live, although we don't edit it that much, but I don't know. That scares me. We'll see. Maybe.
Pete: You could play it live after.
Jay: That's right. The old fake live. Exactly. You are also a fan, because I saw your blog post about this and video, of using Facebook videos to promote blog posts, right, so that you really shouldn't do anything other than video in your Facebook content. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Pete: Yes. Facebook obviously is pushing video a lot more. If you use video, then you're going to get more reach pretty much all the time. That kind of works consistently. When you post a link that just goes straight into your blog, obviously Facebook doesn't like that too much because it wants all the attention on itself. It wants to keep people on the platform. In general, people don't really like to keep going back and forth on Facebook to a blog on this website and all that kind of stuff. A start actually that we've seen used which we think works quite well is rather than writing a message with the link to your blog and maybe including an image, if you actually produce like a video about that blog first and then post that, you'll get more reach because obviously it's a video. That works quite well and we've seen quite a few companies do that.
Andrew: That's actually how we got started with Facebook Live when it kind of first came out. Just testing it. We went back through our old blog content and just thought, right, which one of these will make a great Facebook video and we just went live. We talked a little bit about the content. Dropped in the link for them to go check out. If you haven't done a Facebook Live yet and you're thinking what would I talk about, you probably got it already on your site somewhere.
Jay: If you stop believing that you can only talk about whatever you published today and instead talk about whatever the best thing you've ever published is, it becomes a whole different story.
Pete: Yes. That might help as well because a lot of ... kind of Facebook Lives that look really boring and dull. If you have some content ready to go that you know isn't going to get some kind of engagement anyway because it's already got engagement in the past, then that's a great way to overcome that.
Jay: It doesn't even matter what channel it is. We're in an era now where what you're trying to do is produce hits whether it's a hit podcast episode or a hit blog post or a hit video or a hit whatever. Some of your content is not going to be hits. They're not all going to be hits the same way that every Beatles song wasn't a hit, but you're trying to create hits. When you see evidence of disproportionate success, you've got a blog post that does better than you usually do, you've got a Facebook post that does better than you usually do, you've got a video that does better than you usually do, what you need to do is then double, triple down on that to take that minor hit and make it a major hit. What everybody tries to do who isn't thinking clearly about this is trying to make everything decent instead of saying, "Look, some of it's going to suck and that's okay. Let's take the things that are decent and make them really, really good by amplifying, by redistributing that content, by repackaging that content, by reposting older content, evergreen things," all that. It's this idea that everybody has to have a participation medal at the content level is just not a good strategy.
Pete: That's perfect. I think do more of what works.
Jay: Yeah. No doubt.
Pete: If that's performing well, make the most of it.
Jay: Let me ask you about that. You don't have a massive team. It's mostly you guys and you have some freelance help as well. If you had more time, if you had more resources, if you had more elasticity, what would you guys do more of?
Andrew: That's a good question. I feel like I would make more fun content. We'll do like the odd or really just ... Not even about marketing. Let's just have some fun this week like we've done like the marketers 12 days of Christmas or what the brats of marketing buzzwords and those kind of videos always go down so well, but they are a massive kind of time suck. I feel like that would be a great way to invest in some extra time into. We've got a few more up our sleeves that's just been on the back burner for a while. I don't know. What do you think, Pete?
Pete: I think again the more content that we create, the bigger our business grows. I think that's what we do. Not just more content. Better content. I think that's what we're always trying to do.
Andrew: Different content.
Pete: Different content. Yeah. Well, we've got something pretty exciting coming up at the end of this year which I know you're going to be involved in as well, Jay.
Jay: I am indeed. You've got a brand new podcast of your very own.
Pete: Yeah.
Andrew: It's going to be a different podcast.
Pete: Oh yeah. That's going to be different. Prepare yourself, Jay.
Andrew: I don't know if we'll let you in on everything that's going to happen in that podcast.
Jay: No, I kind of agreed to it more as an experiment more so than a certainly of success, but I am all in.
Andrew: Just don't wear your matching suit. That's all we'll say.
Jay: Oh great. Okay. That could be a problem. The idea of the show, The Andrew and Pete Show, is that there's going to be recurring bits, right? Recurring segments in each episode. I'm going to have some sort of segment about some sort of TBD topic. Maybe a tequila section at each episode would be great. We could just do like a tequila tasting or whatever you want to do.
Pete: That sounds good. This is the thing. We were thinking we couldn't make it better so let's make it different. We've taken inspiration from radio shows and the fun things that they do on there because that's purely what their selling, entertainment. If we were going to do something, could we take some of those elements and kind of put them into a podcast show so people get ... They don't only just get advice and help and those golden nuggets they need, but they're also going to have fun listening to it.
Andrew: That's something we do quite a lot. A lot of people take inspiration from the industry. Well, we often look at like just the medium as a whole. If we want to do YouTube videos, it's like who should we be looking at? Other marketers or we're going to just end up exactly the same if we do what other marketers are doing. While looking at like the top YouTubers, what do their competitors look like, how do they keep the engagement going throughout the video and take inspiration from the leaders of the medium rather than the industry that you're in.
Jay: I think that's really terrific advice. Even the consulting side of our business, I find that most of our clients want to benchmark against other companies in the same industry and that's fine, but if all you care about are averages, you're never going to be anything other than an average market. If the averages that you are using or the average is in your own industry, you'll only be as good as the best guy in the mattress industry or whatever it happens to be. That may not be all that great really.
Pete: Exactly. You can't get to the top following what people did to get to the top because you're always going to be one step behind.
Jay: Well, and what they use to get to the top ... Yeah, that's right. Yes. We need a sunset. Frankly, what they use to get to the top may not work anymore. I mean look, I have the following I have partially because I started blogging when I started blogging. If I started today, I'd have to do it a totally different way, right? I wouldn't have books and speaking, all the things that I do now or even the show. I was able to do it because I used the tools of the time when I started which is before when you started. You didn't start with video then because nobody could watch video because they didn't have the bandwidth speed on their phone.
Pete: Exactly.
Jay: Before you had 4G, you can only watch video on your laptop. That's a different world.
Pete: Exactly. It's so right. People actually still follow the advice from like 10 years ago. It's not going to work. Similarly as well, this is really what we want to push and get into people's minds that content marketing isn't novel anymore and in pretty much every industry people are doing it and have started it. If you're not doing something a little bit better than everyone else, then it's going to be really, really tough especially if you're just starting out. You really do need to make that unique twist with your content and we call that your content stamp. It's what makes your unique mark on your content. Why did people come across that in a timeline and want to click on it? Why did people want to engage with it? Why did they want to share it? Why did they want to most importantly subscribe and come back? I mean call that your content stamp.
Jay: Is that always one thing for the organization? You have one stamp or you have a different stamp per type of content?
Pete: It's kind of like that's what you're known for if that makes sense. For example, John Lee Dumas. He's known for his daily podcast, right? Daily podcast interview. That's awesome, right? You can easily spread that message. That's his kind of content brand. That's his content stamp. If you look at pretty much all companies that have a really successfully company because of their content, they always have that unique little thing about them. It runs through almost every temple that we've ever seen.
Andrew: It is hard sometimes to try to have multiple content stamps. When people are working with us, it's like we come up with like so many ideas and they'll feel like, "Oh yeah. Let's do them all." We always try to like push them down. "No. Let's just like nail this one thing first and then we can kind of expand from that."
Jay: Do this one thing well and then do a second thing well and then do a third thing well. That's good advice. Hard to follow, but it's good advice.
Pete: It is. It is.
Jay: Speaking of good advice, our friends at Salesforce Marketing Cloud who employed Mr. Adam Brown who's typically here on the show but off this week, have a new eBook that you should download. Go to Of course, you get all the links and show notes at for all 275 episodes. This particular eBook however gives you 50 standout best practices for social media marketers pulled from all of Salesforce Marketing Cloud's thousands and thousands of corporate clients all around the world. Some really interesting ideas and tips and advice there. Grab it at Other sponsors this week include our pals at Yext. Yext has an interesting new white paper that I helped create called The Everywhere Brand. It's at and it's all about the fact that look, we spend less time on websites and less time on company mobile apps than ever before. We're spending more and more time at all the other places online, social media, YouTube, all the different rating and review sites, directories. Those are the places where your brand is really represented and you've got to have your data and your story straight in all these places. There's a whole new job title coming guys called knowledge manager inside the enterprise. This eBook tells you what it's all about and how to make it happen. Go to to learn more about that. What would you guys say is the biggest mistake you've made so far?
Andrew: Good question. Biggest mistake we've made so far. I wish we had gotten to video a lot of earlier than we did. I wish we have been doing it for the past like two or three years rather than the past one year because I feel like that's where we've definitely seen the biggest interest in our content.
Pete: I think just putting more of our brand, our personality into our content sooner as well. I think in the very beginning we just tried to overcompensate I think. We didn't have pictures of ourselves on our website or our content really. We just had like cheesy stock photos and we were trying to like be all corporate. Our professional photos eventually were in really bad suits.
Andrew: Not an emoji in sight.
Pete: Not an emoji in sight. It was just awful.
Jay: Embrace the emoji sooner. If we just sort of embraced emojis two years earlier, it would all have been easy.
Andrew: Can you imagine we would have been like the emoji innovators?
Jay: You would have been the new fangled Seth Godin.
Andrew: Yeah, exactly.
Jay: You interviewed Seth a while back. What did you learn from Seth when you interviewed him?
Andrew: It wasn't just us interviewing him unfortunately. It was like a Q and A event. Like quite a small Q and A event. That just kind of blew us away. That was in 2015, wasn't it? He's always been a huge inspiration for us. I think like the Purple Cow was probably one of the first business books that we had read. I think the biggest takeaway from that specific event was the cost of failing is always tiny, but yet it puts people off. If you do a video and nobody watches it, so what? If you do a video and loads of people watch it, amazing. Why are we put off by the fear of like nobody watching it or two people leaving a negative review? The cost of that is tiny.
Pete: I got a review yesterday and it said ... It was on an Instagram post and it said, "Your laugh is annoying." I was like what? What?
Jay: You're like, "Mom, I didn't even know you're on Instagram."
Pete: This was like a 72 posts down as well. I don't know why he didn't unfollow us either. They followed us. They must have enjoyed 72 of our posts. He clicks on one of them. No other comments.
Jay: It's a tipping point. Everything has a tipping point including your laugh I think is the lesson there. It's more of a Gladwellian lesson than a Godin lesson around tipping points, but yeah, it's true.
Pete: I'm not to laugh now. Sorry.
Andrew: Really irritating everyday.
Jay: It's amazing you're still partners really.
Andrew: I don't know. It was me. It was me on my Instagram post. I couldn't tell you to your face.
Jay: It's his stalker account. I love it. Tell us how people can get notified about the new podcast when it's ready.
Andrew: Well, it's going to be an audio podcast and a video podcast. If you just go to our video channel, yeah. It's going to be on our YouTube channel as well. If you go to, subscribe on there, you should get the notification when that comes through.
Pete: For everywhere else, It's the word and as well. You can all of our social links on there. We'd love to hear from anyone who has been listening to this podcast. Why don't you come at us with your favorite emoji?
Jay: Yes.
Pete: Tell me if my laugh's annoying.
Jay: Yeah. That's it. This is a very American reference, but with the whole March madness basketball tournament every March obviously, I feel like you should have an emoji playoff, right, and sort of have poop versus smiley face final four kind of a thing. That's my content idea for Andrew and Pete is the emoji battle.
Andrew: I love that. We should make that part of the podcast. If that ends up on the podcast, Jay, then we'll have you to credit.
Jay: There you go. Fantastic.
Pete: The final inspiring question of the podcast, what's your favorite emoji?
Jay: Your favorite emoji. I like it.
Andrew: How to do an emoji on a podcast?
Jay: You have to draw a picture. It's like Pictionary. You got to draw and hold it up.
Andrew: You know what? I love the game where you have to do the emoji face yourself and someone else has to guess the emoji. We might get you doing that, Jay, now.
Jay: I'm going to need practice. I'm going to need some work. I'm going to ask you the questions that we ask every single guest here on the show now six and a half years strong. First question is what one tip would you give somebody who's looking to become a social pro?
Andrew: We would say get inspired by what other people are doing in your industry, the ones that are doing it really well, but don't copy them. Find your own way and find your own twist or your own stamp as we put it and be a little bit different.
Jay: I love that. That's a great way to frame that. Thank you very much. The last question for Andrew and Pete,, if you could do a Skype call with any living person, who would it be?
Pete: Immediately our first response here was Beyonce, but then we know listening to your podcast, I feel we always put insensible answers here.
Andrew: I still think I would choose Beyonce.
Jay: I think Beyonce is fine. I really like that idea very much.
Andrew: I really want to know who "Becky with the good hair" is.
Jay: I think who invented the emojis. That's who you should go with it. I'm not even sure who that is. That merit some research actually, who invented emojis. Somebody did. If you know out there, somebody, I'm interested to have that answer, listeners. Guys, thanks very much for taking the time. Congratulations on all the success. Looking forward to working with you on the big podcast later this fall. Again go to Appreciate you guys being on the show.
Andrew: Thank you so much for having us.
Pete: Thank you.
Andrew: We had fun.
Pete: Woo hoo.
Jay: It was a blast. Ladies and gentlemen, next week Mr. Adam Brown will be back, as well we have two incredible guests that we're going to record next week. Don't forget. Go to iTunes, wherever you get your podcast to subscribe to the show if you haven't and of course, every single episode of this show is at including links and full transcripts and all that stuff. Until next week, I am Jay Baer from Convince and Convert and this has been Social Pros.
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