Nobody Cares About Your Sales Funnel Except You

Todd Berkowitz, Research Vice President at Gartner, joins the Content Pros Podcast to discuss using ABM and buyer-driven content to boost conversions, close deals, and make marketing shine.

In This Episode:

Please Support Our Sponsors:

Huge thanks to our amazing sponsors for helping us make this happen. Please support them; we couldn't do it without their help! This week:

Full Episode Details

Content For Buyers, Not Sellers

Sales funnel. Account-based marketing. Marketing automation. Content marketing. Content curation. Social media marketing. All of this and more feeds into our day-to-day lives as active, busy content marketers. But you know who doesn’t care? Buyers.

A focus on supporting the sales team and staying on top of marketing trends can inadvertently move the focus off of the customer’s needs and wants. At the end of the day, your buyer wants content that answers their questions where they are, right now.

Your job is to make content that fits the buyer so the seller can help them read it (more or less).

Account-based marketing (ABM) can help you to not only tailor your content to your buyer’s interests, but also use content to figure out where they are in the funnel and what they need from you to move forward.

Buyers don’t care about your sales process. They only care about their personal buyer’s journey and getting help from you to become an owner.

In This Episode

  • Why measuring success of ABM means revisiting your marketing metrics and your definition of success
  • How understanding the buyer’s journey means understanding that you can’t dictate the process
  • The customer doesn’t care about your sales funnel
  • Why the effectiveness of marketing automation and ABM means a close look at the when/why/where of content personalization
  • How the right ABM and content marketing leads to an empowered and enabled sales team

 

Quotes From This Episode

“There’s a lot of variation on how sophisticated people are from a demand gen perspective, how they use content, what works, what doesn’t.” —@toddberkowitz

“You end up having to do a lot of things at the beginning that won’t work, and that’s by design.” —@toddberkowitz

Many clients will conflate how they want to sell with how they expect people to buy. Click To Tweet

“You should have content that meets the needs of the different buyers you’re going after, the different roles, the different individuals and also the different stages where they may be because ultimately you start to figure out where they are.” —@toddberkowitz

Sometimes personalization for the sake of personalization actually leads to poor results. Click To Tweet

There’s a lot of interesting things that you can do just by putting a personalized approach around how you send out content.” —@toddberkowitz

“Content needs to be used in different ways at different times. Especially when you think about the more complex buying processes.” —@randyfrisch

“Everybody thinks about, ‘how do you help the hunters be more successful?’ But it’s all these other people, the account managers, the CSMs, the SDRs, the consultants, the solution folks, they all need content too.” —@toddberkowitz

Resources

 

Content Pros Lightning Round

What’s your type of external activity outside of work that keeps you busy on a weekend? I play softball, and my kids are competitive swimmers.

You ended up getting to know someone with the same birthday and became pretty fond of the person. Can you piece it all together for us? I started talking to someone, a mom of one of the students in my kid’s class. I had recently gotten divorced, and we started talking about the fact that we were both about to turn 40 and how that was bugging us. It turned out we had the same birthday. Same birth date, same birth day and we were both dealing with the same thing. We ended up actually having a joint birthday party together and eventually ended up getting married.

Transcript

Randy:Welcome to another episode of Content Pros. I am Randy Frisch from Uberflip. As always I’ve got Tyler Lessard with me from Vidyard. This is Content Pros. We are part of the Convince & Convert family of podcasts. Today we are going to really dig into understanding how content is being strategically used. To do that, we actually have an expert with us in Todd Berkowitz. Todd comes from Gartner. Tyler, you’ve gotten to know Todd too. Tell us a little bit about him and then let’s have him join this conversation.
Tyler:Well, we’ve got another tremendous guest here with us today. One of the things I think that’s really exciting about what Todd brings to the table is he spent years as a practitioner in various marketing roles, various companies, but has spent the last four years as a research vice president at Gartner working with a range of technology clients and B2B to understand what they’re really doing out there across these different markets, what’s working, what’s not and what the latest hot topics are across these different companies. Without further adieu, Todd, why don’t you continue maybe introducing yourself a little bit and maybe share with the audience what your focus is in your life at Gartner?
Todd:Yeah. Well, thank you Randy and thank you Tyler. Appreciate you guys having me on your podcast. Great to be here. As you guys mentioned, I spent about 15 years kind of as a practitioner then decided to jump over the dark side and be an analyst. It’s a lot of fun because I get to see what other people are doing, look at their problems, look at what’s working, what’s not working and give advice and share that sort of insight with actually more than about 500 different companies a year, if you can believe it. What we generally have been covering a lot lately has been around the company’s market that seems to be sort of the default go to market model. Excuse me.

Our clients range from very small little clients that you guys would probably never hear of up to the likes of some of the largest tech vendors in the world. What we find is there’s just a lot of variation on how sophisticated people are from a demand gen perspective, how they use content, what works, what doesn’t. What I do on a daily basis really varies pretty significantly. As I was mentioning ABM, that seemed to be the hot topic for me lately.

Randy:Yeah, I know. Absolutely, Todd. We’re like right in the heat of marketing event season, right? It’s like every other week there’s a marketing event to go to. I found exactly what you’re saying. You walk by the exhibit halls in these companies and no one has a booth that doesn’t have that buzz word ABM. There’s no session to attend. It’s not drop an ABM term in some sort of way. I think it’s exciting because it’s a new way to think about things even though maybe it’s an old school way with a new twist. What are some of the challenges when people come to you at Gartner and they say, “Okay. We want to figure out ABM,” how clear are their questions or is it literally that high level at this stage?
Todd:It really depends. If you think about the traditional ABM, some of the larger clients who maybe doing ABM for 10, 20, 50 of they’re largest existing clients and it’s very personalized and it sort of seems to be an extension of account based selling, but then we also have others that really want to do ABM specifically for new customers. They want to do it at scale. Eventually get to a thousand or 2,000. We’ve got some that have been doing it for a year or more which for the new version of ABM is kind of … That’s like dog years. A year is forever. The types of questions that they’re asking really will vary. I mean some are just trying to ask us what does this thing mean? How do I run a program?

How do I think about everything from the accounts I select to what kind of data I need, to the engagement channels, to the level of personalization and even to how do I figure out the metrics to tell me this thing is working or not. Others will come just with maybe very specific questions within that to say, “Okay. How do we get better data for this country? How do we figure out specifically what kind of content do we need for this particular channel that we’re running to this particular set of accounts or for this particular level?” It’s really all over the map. Maybe more so than any other topic that I’ve dealt with over the four years I’ve been at Gartner.

Randy:Yeah. It’s interesting. I remember about a year ago actually a guy, he’s been a guest on this podcast, Brian Miske at KPMG. He’s the CMO there. He had talked about how they were starting out by just investing in knowledge for their teams. People were getting certified in ABM. I think there’s probably and you probably see this as you mentioned earlier this idea that some of your clients are small companies you never heard of and some are behemoths. I wonder if there’s a balance there between small companies just rolling up their sleeves and saying, “Okay. Let’s start this thing,” and the big companies saying, “Okay. Let’s learn about this thing first.” I could tell you even at my company we’ve kind of got almost two personalities, right?

We’ve got our VP of revenue and sales who wants to just start and our VP of marketing who’s like, “Okay. Let’s figure the strategy first and then we can start.” Are you seeing a balance of dig in versus plan?

Todd:Yeah. It’s all over the place maybe for a couple of reasons. On the one hand you get somebody, let’s just say it’s the chief revenue officer or head of sales or maybe even the CEO who basically … They show up at a conference whether it’s ours or somebody else’s or they read something and they’re all over ABM and they say to their CMO or the head of demands, whoever it is, “You got to go and do this.” In other cases though it’s the marketing folks trying to get it and understand they want to do it, but it becomes a very scary proposition for them because I think what we would tell you very often is that you end up having you do a lot of things at the beginning that won’t work and that’s by design.

It’s also just when you sort of think about the traditional world of demand generation and thinking about how everything basically leads to a marketing qualified lead and a lot of marketers are still unfortunately measure specifically on that metric. Then you get into this ABM world and suddenly realize leads per se don’t really matter as much, that accounts, that engagement, ultimately how do you drive, how do you turn that engagement into opportunities and deals and faster sales cycles. It’s a scary proposition for a lot of people which does cause people to want to slow down. Then as I said you get others that want to push ahead really fast.

We even get believe it or not people who are trying to deal without having a marketing automation system in place or without having an actual marketer to orchestrate things. You can imagine that that raises some red flags with us and we have to sort of calm people down a little bit I guess would be the polite way of putting it.

Tyler:Let me ask you something about that Todd because we hear … We try to do this and we get into an account-based mindset. What we start to look at are these different types of accounts that we want to engage with and we go down part of this the planning and mapping exercise of trying to really think about what is the buyer’s journey that we want to take these different accounts on. Something I always struggle with personally as a marketer, but also as a very practical marketer is recognizing that each of these accounts end up being very different when we end up dealing with them.

I like to imagine that there’s this consistent buyer’s journey and I’m going to create 10 pieces of content and they’re all going to follow the same path, but the reality is when you start working with the sales team in an orchestrated way, you find that the playbooks for each one tend to change. Somebody’s at a different level of understanding than the others. Somebody has a different competitor in place. The whole dynamic of what kind of content is going to work with them changes. It might not be any different with broader marketing, but it seems amplified with ABM when you start thinking about how do you try to build a single buyer’s journey and create a content strategy around it. I’m curious if you see that.

Others are struggling with that and what’s your take on kind of the buyer’s journey and building a content strategy around it.

Todd:I think you’re right that it probably extends beyond ABM into traditional demand generation. A lot of our clients I think unfortunately will conflate how they want to sell with how they expect people to buy.
Tyler:I love that.
Todd:If you’re a buyer of anything, you don’t care about how anyone wants to sell what their process is. We’re looking to put in new windows in our house and I don’t particularly care that the sales guy from a particular vendor says the price is expiring tonight so we better go ahead and do this. I will buy the way I want to buy and I will sort of ignore the sales process. The same thing happens with our clients. I think the hard thing is that people believe that they can really truly dictate how this journey is going to go and use content to kind of guide that. I don’t know if you guys know Hank Barnes. He’s one of my colleagues on the team. Pretty active on social media.

He’s led up a lot of our research kind of around the buying cycle and the owning cycle specifically for tech companies or people buying I should say from tech companies. What we found is this buying process it’s not linear. It’s not predictable. You never know when someone’s jumping in. Even when they do progress down a particular path, someone comes along with a new piece of information whether it’s a different vendor, it’s an analyst, it’s someone they know. Then they can end up going sort of backwards or forwards. The research we’ve done has really found that you have this emergence of buying teams. Even the individuals on a team start to act different.

Our guidance is generally like you should have content that meets sort of the different needs of the different buyers you’re going after, the different roles, the different individuals and also the different stages where they may be because ultimately you start to figure out where they are. As you progress through your own sales cycle, things get a little more predictable. I guess I’d say that in the ABM world because you’re so hyper focused on particular accounts you should have better knowledge and you should be able to understand, “Okay. In this account, we found a couple of champions, but we realize they have to convince someone else, someone in a different group that this should be a priority over the seven other things they’re doing and what kind of content can we give them to help them evangelize, to help them convince those other people that it’s now. Can we give them case studies? Can we give them ROI? Are there other things to help them see that whatever you’re selling now should be at the top of their list?” That’s the knowledge you start to get as you get more insight into the accounts and really the content strategy kind of has to flow there. I know I kind of rambled off topic.

Randy:No, that was great. That was great. That’s something that I’m out and Tyler, the two of us are out there talking about so much is this need to personalize, this need to give these authentic experiences to the people that we’re relating to. It brings up a good question out, at least one in my mind, and it’s one that I think some marketers have been struggling with lately is we’ve grown up the last 5, 10 years as marketers and you pointed this like a lot of time using a marketing automation tool. I often say I hate that term, marketing automation, because it makes us think like it’s just all going to be automated.
Todd:That’s why by the way we have still not used that term in our research. We call it CRM lead management by the way. We are maybe the only ones who do that.
Randy:Oh, interesting.
Tyler:Good for you guys.
Randy:Interesting. Getting into the weeds of where I think some of the technology out there is going or at least some of the desires of where people want technology to go is people are almost excited about this idea of AI and personalization and recommendation engines. I’m wondering what your thoughts are on like is that the way to go because as you pointed out, just because it worked for the last person, is it really going to work for this person? When we think of lining up these journeys of content or the buyer journey as you described which is unique for everyone, should we really be looking at using mass customization or should we be dealing with this more manually? Then how does that work at scale?
Todd:Let me try to unpack that one because I think there’s a couple of interesting things there. Sort of on the AI front and maybe also brought in prescriptive and predictive analytics and other things that use data science, we’ve seen a lot of good use cases for that particularly as it comes to defining the types of accounts you want to go after whether you’re talking about an ABM or a more traditional demand gen or prospecting. We’ve also seen it being used to help sort of understand where an opportunity is, the likelihood of it closing, even the likelihood of a lead converting. We’ve seen some very interesting use cases there. We haven’t seen it as much kind of on the content side yet. Now I’ve seen a few vendors start to try to think about that.

There’s still a pretty big problem in being able to have a big enough data set to say, “Should we use this piece of content here or should we do this now?” You have to be able to turn it back to some sort of conversion to say, “In other customers that look like this, this is what worked and what didn’t work.” We’ve actually seen it happen a little bit downstream on the sales side kind of with some of the, we call them digital content management for sales platforms. I would say we’re not quite there yet. It’s just happening in pockets now. What I would also say though is that if you think about this more on ABM, the element of personalization becomes important. How much do you personalize? Do you personalize the ad? Do you personalize the call to action?

Do you personalize the content below? That often becomes kind of a resource issue as much as it becomes whether or not you should do it or shouldn’t do it. We’ve seen people try to really go and personalize these things and it turns out it doesn’t work. That isn’t because of automation as much as they just find that sometimes personalization for the sake of personalization actually leads to poor results. It didn’t take a machine to tell you that. You just had to look and see that the campaign you run wasn’t as effective.

Randy:That makes so much sense. I want to dig deeper on this. We’re going to take a quick break. Hear from a couple of our sponsors and we’ll be right back to dig into how we accomplish this at scale.
Tyler:Todd, let me follow up on the points you were making around kind of the effectiveness of content and personalization. One of the things that I’m really passionate about these days from a content marketing perspective is of course not only building great content at the top of the funnel, but is building a great content strategy through the mid and bottom part of the funnel and really aligning with the sales team. I think this also ties back to of course ABM. Thinking about what content are we creating to service that actual sales life cycle, not just bringing the leads in, but how can we create content and deliver it in a way to our sales team that they can deliver it in a more personal fashion?

That’s actually one thing that I think gets missed in the idea of personalization is actually the manual personalization and equipping your sales team to say, “Yeah. Based on this, I’m going to pull this piece, this piece, this piece and deliver them kind of the custom content that I think they need in a packaged up way.” I’m interested in your perspective on that. Again do you see more focus on mid funnel, late stage funnel content and how marketing and sales teams are aligning on that strategy or what’s your take?

Todd:We’ve definitely seen more of that I’d say over the last year. It’s something we’ve been riding about I would say with finance. ABM is maybe one of the reasons for this, but I’m not sure it’s the only reason. It has been pushing people a little bit more in that direction. When you really get back to it, you can be a CMO and you can generate all the MQLs you want and you can have all the best top of the funnel content. If you’re not closing deals, if the company isn’t making its number, isn’t growing as fast or deals are being perceived as taking too long, the marketing team’s not getting a pat on the back and no one’s going to say, “Great job.” Eventually it’s going to come down to say, “You’ve got to do more to help sales out here.”

I think as the buying cycles have gotten more complex there has been this push there. I talk to a lot of clients kind of on the sales side. Often they’ve got some bottleneck somewhere. Maybe to say, “We do a demo. We’re doing a proof of concept,” and then it kind of goes dark after that. We start to figure out why and it turns out that they don’t really have a strategy for sending content out after they do something. They just sort of have it as normal … Well, sales is getting engage and ask people if they’re ready to move forward or if they need anything else. I think there’s been a realization that content can play an important role. Sometimes there just is no content to send out and that’s when we have to say, “Okay. You guys need to create some more mid funnel content.”

In other cases they’re just not using it. I’d also say that you can always reuse certain things. We come back to case studies a lot because they can work in so many different contexts. I mean they’re a great way to build trust at the beginning and get people to engage. Everybody wants to see a case study. At the same time it’s also a great thing to throw in down the funnel and say, “Okay. Here’s some example of where somebody else got some pretty demonstrable ROI.” You send that out after doing a demo. It doesn’t even have to necessarily be that you’re creating a bunch of new content.

As you talked about with the personalization, the sales person uses that, puts a personalized note around and put some context around why they’re using this and even suggest that they forward it on to those other people who are part of the buying team. I think there’s a lot of interesting things that you can do there just by putting a personalized approach around how you send it out.

Tyler:I remember I had this really funny moment in our company a little while ago where we were increasing the price of one of our packages. Immediately the team said, “Amazing for us because we’re going to bring in just as many leads and opportunities, but if the average deal size goes up, all of a sudden that’s way more pipeline. We’re going to crush our pipeline numbers.” I turned to the team and said, “Yeah, and our close rates are going to go down unless we focus on helping the sales team sell. The win is only if those close rates stay the same and the revenue goes up.” Of course, the eyeballs light up and I said, “Guess what we’re going to do the next six months? We’re going to focus on late stage content, but not only the content, but how we empower the sales team with it to have the tools to actually use it.” The last piece was how do we actually help the sales team crate content on the fly with things like videos and what not which of course is part of our life, but how can we turn them into creators. It’s not about them writing a big eBook, but even the simple thing of them recording a quick personal video and then adding to the playlist a little micro demo that they did a screen capture. Those sorts of things matter and they work. We found it’s a really fun environment to be in when you’re thinking at that level about your content strategy and how marketing fits all the way through to the sales process.
Todd:Right. Just real quick to add on that, we’ve also seen I’d say a big recognition that sales enablement in general is an area that a lot of companies need to do better. Content is certainly one piece of that. There are definitely various platforms out there that really can help people either create content or understand when to use the content and what context and what to do around it. I might even sort of think about it as a bit of the return of product marketing here where product marketing was just so buried and basically being demand gen monkeys for all intents and purposes. Now it’s suddenly like okay, really putting their expertise in the back to helping sales do what they need to do through content and training and other things.

That’s been a big push lately. ABM just makes that that much more imperative. I would agree with you that the laws of math by the way and reason would dictate that you had to do it.

Randy:It’s actually interesting though. I fully agree with what you guys are talking about, right? We have to enable sales. It’s funny as you describe this. I mean a lot of our customers struggle with this. We help them solve some of these problems. What’s also interesting though is how it flows in beyond sales, right? We had one of our customers who uses our platform to a do a lot of what you’re describing in terms of bundling content and especially case studies. It’s interesting that brought up case studies because I was … We were at one of these events recently and one of the customers came over and they’re like … They were talking about their customer success teams, the teams that start to work with the customer after the initial purchase.

They were talking about how at that stage those case studies are actually almost more important than some of the very product heavy how to articles that they send to people. The question was, how do we bundle together a case study with the technical how to documentation because it’s one thing to see the documentation, it’s another thing to see what the output of that is. I think this is what we’re all talking about here, the three of us, is that content actually needs to be used in different ways at different times especially when you think about the more complex buying processes. Different buyers or sorry different context may come into the picture at a later stage who weren’t involved in the purchase.

Todd:Exactly.
Tyler:Yeah. One of the things that I’m seeing Randy, is that in that life cycle and you talk about success because those of you in subscription business or what not, customer retention and upsell, is often as a bigger part of the business than new business generation. It’s something that I know I’m hearing more people talk about is the role of content marketing even post sale and helping customers. The idea you gave Randy I love which is, “Here’s a case study about how another one of our customers is crushing it and by the way, here’s very specific tips and best practices about how they did that. You, other customer, we want to help you replicate that.” It becomes a great upsell potential when the customer realizes that.

I think that’s as much a job of product marketing and content marketing as is it of customer success and the sales team.

Todd:We’ve had a lot of not just with a growth in inquiries, but also as we talk to some of our vendor clients too that are in the space. The two places where when you think about use of content and you think about enablement have really grown in recent years has been on the front end, the SDRs, but then on the back end of it, the CSMs. Both of them are part of your sales team. You have to think about how does anybody who’s going to be involved in the sales process or sort of the owning process, right, how do they use content? Everybody thinks about how do you help the hunters be more successful, but it’s all these other people, the account managers, the CSMs, the SDRs, the consultants, the solution folks, they all need content.
Randy:The inspiring thing here I think as we’re talking about this is our customers and marketers as a whole they want to learn about how to do more of this. It’s taking this concept offline. I’ve been at a couple of these events we’ve been talking about recently where we end up doing like case study presentations. The cool thing, as much we’re in many ways there to find and attract prospects ourselves, sometimes in the room, half the room are customers. They’re existing customers and they just want to come to in because they want to learn how other people are using technology in different ways at different stages. I think there is this thirst of customers out there, oh sorry, marketers rather …

I’m calling them customers right now, but of marketers out there to figure out how to leverage content. When you think about this, a lot of it comes back to I think some of the pressures we should start to expect as content marketers. That’s the idea that we have to now start to prove ROI of all that content we created. For awhile it was enough to say, “Okay. We’re going to figure out content marketing by creating content.” Now it’s, “All right. Well, I give you that budget to create content. How are you going to leverage this? How are you going to make it impact the buyer journey, the conversion, everything we’ve been talking about?”

Tyler:How you can help people close deals honestly.
Randy:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Todd:It all comes back to that at the end of the day.
Randy:Todd, before we wrap up here, we always like to get to know our guest. We’ll start with an easy one. We just want to get to know you outside of work. We were actually talking before we went live on this and we found out that both Tyler and I are dance dads, meaning the both of us have dance recitals for our young daughters and we are performing in it. What’s your type of external outside of work activity that’s not dancing that keeps you busy on a weekend or outdoors as we start to switch seasons here?
Todd:There’s a couple things. Softball has started for me, but inevitably I seem to injure myself every time I play which is no good. I’m the youngest guy on the team too and I still manage to have the most injuries. My kids are not into dance thankfully, but they are competitive swimmers. I may have you beat for how long I have to spend kind of doing that. Just swim meets can go on and on and on and on, but it’s fun. I like it. They like it. You guys are fathers. You know how your whole life seems to revolve around your kid’s activities.
Randy:Absolutely. Another interesting fact we were able to dig out about you is your birthday. You actually ended up getting to know someone with the same birthday and became pretty fond of the person. Can you piece it all together for us?
Todd:There’s a pretty funny story there. This was a few years ago. I think it’s about four, five years ago I was at school. My kids were in elementary school as I’m doing pickup and I had just … I started talking to someone, a mom of somebody who our kids were in the same class. I recently gotten divorce and we started talking and we actually both … We’re talking about the fact that we were both about to turn 40 and how that was bugging us. Turned out we had the same birthday. Same birth date, same birth day and we were both dealing with the same thing. We ended up actually having like a joint birthday party together and ended up actually getting married. Now I get to give her grief though because she’s 11 hours older than me.
Randy:Man, that’s got to be pressure on the birthday. It’s not like you even have months to figure out was the gift equal? It’s on that day, right? Did each of you do well enough? I would not want to be in that position.
Todd:You can buy joint gifts. Sometimes that’s the way to deal with things the best.
Randy:That is a good way to do it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Todd, this has been awesome. For everyone listening in, if you want to follow Todd, Todd Berkowitz at Gartner. I think we’ve learned a lot about this idea of how do we not just create content, but how do we think about leveraging that content at every stage of the buyer journey, but not trying to do so in a prescriptive way across the board and really think about the different buyers and the different needs that they may have at each stage and how unique those could be. Todd, if there’s somewhere for people to follow you and get more insights on Gartner, where you would point them to?
Todd:Well, certainly come find me on LinkedIn or Twitter. My handle is @ToddBerkowitz or certainly you can come to the Gartner website and search for me. Okay if I mention a conference or is that …
Randy:Go for it. Go for it.
Todd:We have our one conference a year that we do not for the end users, but actually for our tech clients specifically. It’s the Gartner Tech Growth and Innovation Conference coming up just about a month from now, so June 19th in Huntington Beach. I will have a panel on ABM. I will have a panel on sales enablement and then a workshop on ABM too. Lots of other great, great, great content to be there. If you’re looking for one more show to go to, it’s on the beach. It’s going to be a great event. You can come find me and I will buy you a beer.
Randy:Amazing. Look at that. On a beach, content and you can even oversee a swim meet all at the same time. Todd, this has been awesome. This has been great. Thank you for everyone for tuning in. We know you have a lot of choice when it comes to podcast. Content Pros again is part of the Convince & Convert family of podcasts. Just a reminder that if you’re looking to learn about content marketing from Convince & Convert, they have the content marketing class at ContentMarketingClass.com. Jay Baer giving you a ton of insight in terms of where to start and how to raise your game around content marketing. Until next time, please tune in with us on Stitcher, iTunes, Google Play, wherever you get your podcast.

Let us know what’s working for you. Let us know where we can help in the feedback and we’ll be back with the next Content Pros.

What Great Brands Do That Good Brands Don't in Content Marketing

Okay content is easy. Killer content is hard. This nifty eBook shows you the difference, based on our real-world work with dozens of brands. A must-read!