Why Smart Marketers Are Embracing Experiential Content

Ryan Brown, Head of Brand Strategy at Ceros, joins the Content Experience Show Podcast to explore why today’s consumers crave experiential content.

In This Episode:

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Full Episode Details

Ryan Brown - Instagram

The Shift Toward Experiential Content

As every marketer knows, today’s consumers have sky-high expectations for brand content. They demand relevance, authenticity, and personalization. They also value experiential content more than ever—and no, that doesn’t mean tacking a quiz on to the end of a blog post.

According to Ryan Brown, Head of Brand Strategy at Ceros, consumers crave content that takes them on a journey and sparks a meaningful connection. It takes more than a branded PDF to entice them, given how content-saturated most digital spaces have become.

What might experiential content look like for your brand? Ryan walks through the possibilities, offering insights into what kinds of experiences tend to succeed and ideas your brand can adapt to suit your unique audience.

In This Episode

  • How experiential content differs from traditional content marketing.
  • Why successful brands are already shifting their focus from generating static content to crafting experiences.
  • How consumer expectations for brand content have evolved since the early days of the content marketing boom.
  • Three in-depth examples of experiential content in action.
  • Ideas to jumpstart your marketing team’s experiential content brainstorming.

Quotes From This Episode

“The experience that a lot of companies are creating with content is largely similar. You take the blogs, PDFs, ebooks, and whitepapers, and reports. You could swap out a logo and the colors for one to another, and you still have a quite similar experience.” – @_RyanBrown_

More and more people have an expectation for brands to make a connection or make them feel better. Click To Tweet

“It’s right that innovation goes to this experience lens. When you do that, you up the quality of the interaction, up the quality of the content, up the quality of everything that will resonate better with people.” – @_RyanBrown_


Content Experience Lightning Round

Tell us about your favorite experiences visiting “speakeasy”-style cocktail bars.

Ryan has visited speakeasies hidden within barbershops, toy stores, and other surprising places! He loves being transported by an experience and taken on a journey.

See you next week!

What Great Brands Do That Good Brands Don't in Content Marketing

Okay content is easy. Killer content is hard. This nifty eBook shows you the difference, based on our real-world work with dozens of brands. A must-read!

Episode Transcript

Anna:Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Content Experience Show Podcast. I am Anna Hrach from Convince & Convert and I am joined by the always amazing, Randy Frisch from Uberflip. Now, today on the show, we have a really interesting topic and a great guest. So we have Ryan Brown who is head of brand strategy at Ceros. Now, Ceros is interesting because they focus on experiential content. And Randy, I have to be honest because there's a little bit of competition between Ceros and Uberflip. Content experience, experiential content, they go together but-  
Randy:Yeah, they're not really the same. And it's funny, some people on my own team were like, "You're having him as a guest?" And we probably compete with them for shared wallet with some of our customers. But as you unpack this episode, I would suggest you should be looking at a company like Ceros or there's other companies that do stuff like them too. SnapApp is another good one out there. They'd allow us to take this content experiences that we direct people to and make them more interactive.  
Randy:Where Uberflip comes in is more ensuring that journey continues but this is like how do we make that one asset stand out which I think now more than ever is crucial. There's so much content out there that it's our opportunity to engage in that moment and we're seeing that coming everywhere. I think you and I have talked about Bandersnatch like that Netflix show-  
Anna:Yeah. I haven't ... No spoilers, I haven't seen it yet.  
Randy:But that is experiential content. Clicking where we're going next like that's the world we're living in so why won't we be able to do that in a piece of content?  
Anna:Yeah. Even something ... That's a pretty grand scale of experiential content but even all the way down to ... For example, I'm going to Japan soon and we, of course, as part of that having never been there before, my husband and I are doing like volumes of research. And like everything you get when you look at itineraries for Tokyo or things to do in Tokyo, they're all kind of the same. But one article that really stands out and I literally have bookmarked and gone back to a million and one times is this article from Parts Unknown, Anthony Bourdain's site about the perfect day in Tokyo.  
 The thing that is the most amazing piece of it is that it's a hand-curated itinerary and it breaks it down hour by hour but as you scroll down the page, the clock moves so it shows you where you are during the day-  
Randy:Oh that's cool.  
Anna:... that piece of content and it is like mind-blowingly cool for the simplest little reason.  
Randy:Absolutely. That's what we're all looking for, is we're looking to be engaged. And we didn't really talk about this in the podcast with Ryan but I was thinking about how a lot of those needs for us on a content marketing perspective are also probably coming from the social experiences that we can create at our fingertips these days. I watched my kids and even myself on Instagram. It's not enough anymore just to post my video or my story or whatever it is. I have to add some animated effect. Otherwise, I'm pretty much lame in my kid's mind. I don't know about the rest of the people tuning in.  
 But for my kids, it's like if I don't have like some sunshine shining down like the real sun is not enough.  
Anna:But also too, I feel like for you once you have cataloged in real-time the boat fire, then you can't like go back to the normal just like, "It's a great day today. Here's my cup of coffee."  
Randy:Sure. I will never live down this boat explosion like I walked by the street and people would be like, "Wait, aren't you that guy who escaped death?" My wife is so tired of it. She's like, "Can you stop blogging about everything we do in our lives?"  
Anna:Yeah. But you didn't blog about it or post about it. Did that boat explosion really happened?  
Randy:It's true. Yeah, if a tree falls, it doesn't make a noise. Let's bring in Ryan before this goes completely in a strange direction. Ryan was a ton of fun on this episode, really helping us understand what is experiential content including some really cool examples of it and we'll bring in Ryan on that note.  
Randy:Hey, Ryan, welcome to The Conex Show. I am really excited to have you here. And for everyone's benefit, you are the head of brand strategy over at a company called Ceros. But a lot of people don't know probably what that means in terms of brand strategy because that can mean so many things these days. And second, what is Ceros? Maybe you can unpack that for us.  
Ryan:Yeah, sure. Well, first I'll just give a quick overview of what Ceros mean as a company. We exist to help businesses transform any piece of content into experiential content. And really what that means is the ability to create like bespoke digital content, things that you would normally hire a web developer for in agency. Ceros is a platform that essentially enables like marketers and developers to create that kind of custom content.  
 But yeah, as head of brand strategy, I've had a really like fun ability in my career to always be in the realm of brand experience. And coming to Ceros, I'm largely focused on how can I help the company evangelize both the experiential content message and vision, how can I support employees internally. But the other piece of that is how can we have a focus on our own brand experience both in the digital space and in the real world and work closely with like our creative director and CEO in how we visualize that and bring that to life.  
Randy:That's great and you guys do a great job at that. I think you and I going into this podcast had some email back and forth because you guys just did some pretty kickass videos that help people understand what you guys do which I thought were really well done. We're doing some fun videos right now ourselves. And even sometimes, I think people have confusion as to what's a content marketing solution and then even when you get into content experience solutions, there are some confusion because your company and my company, Uberflip, we don't really compete but there's naturally confusion.  
 We'll try to unpack what I think you'd like to call experiential content. Is that the right term?  
Ryan:Yes, absolutely.  
Randy:All right. So what the hell does that mean, Ryan?  
Ryan:I think, so a little just about my background has helped me when I talked to others about it and to explain what this is and what's that idea. Early on in my career, I worked at HubSpot and the early days of inbound marketing when you have inbound marketing and content marketing like defining. There's obviously a lot of overlap between what those are but I got to see firsthand working with a number of small and medium-sized businesses as they were responding to this whole digital change.  
 I even worked with like plumbers on how do they take their business in the digital world and like teach them how to blog for the first time. It was really interesting. It was very different then. I left after being at HubSpot for like three and a half, four years and went and worked for a couple of experiential marketing agencies for about five years and had the ability to work on some really cool stuff with TV networks and film studios. And we were doing like stunts in Times Square and big activations at Comic Con and music festivals and a wide range of stuff.  
 And then I came back about a year ago to the marketing technology space at Ceros, and I was fascinated to kind of see a few things like one, there were some cool innovations and things that were changing in marketing. But by and large, a lot of the principles and things that were working on when I was at HubSpot like didn't change dramatically. And one of those things was the type of content people were creating which is largely like blog posts and PDFs. Having spent five years working with these brands that are obsessing over, how do they bring their brands to life in the ways at which people are engaging with them and going to great lengths when they activate sponsorships or they do in-store experiences or they're creating special customer and fan experiences.  
 It struck me when I was coming back to the digital space like the experience that a lot of companies are creating with the content itself is largely similar. You take the blogs. You take PDFs, ebooks and whitepapers and reports, you could swap out a logo and the colors for one branch to another and you still have a very quite similar experience. That got me thinking a lot about how in which we in the experiential world thought to create meaning and emotion and make moments for people. And there's a lot of powerful ways that you can do that in the digital space.  
 In many ways where experiential marketing isn't a thing, it could be how you show up at a trade show or event. It could even be how you do things in store is largely a strategic way. It's a way that it's kind of a mindset more than a tactic. When I think about experiential content, it's that same sort of thing. We're creating content for social. We're creating content for blogs, for lead gen, for customer education. I think experiential content is a similar sort of mindset which takes it from a passive static written driven format into way that actually is much more active and purposeful in the ways that brands can actually create this digital experience in which you engage audiences, pull them in. And leverage the fact that you're using devices that have inputs. You're using devices that can trigger things that happen when you get to different moments of the experience itself.  
Anna:One of the things that immediately pops to mind when you're talking about experiential content is the famous Sally Hogshead quote which is, “Different is better than better.” And I know everybody out there has heard that but why is it so important to deliver experiences versus just looking at things from a content marketing perspective because there is this evolution happening where people a few years ago was like, you have to create content. Just go create content. Create content marketing. It's going to be amazing. Everything is going to be fixed. We're going to solve world peace with content marketing.  
 All the way now until like, "Well, actually that's not enough anymore. We have to provide experiences. It's different now." How do you help people understand the benefits and why they need to make that shift, because it is an evolution.  
Ryan:Yeah. I think it's two things. One, like “content is king” has been a phrase that I've heard for like the past number of years and it's true. There's like a deluge of content. And when I came back into it as I heard it and sort of paint what was happening, the space was becoming harder and harder for people to connect and engage with people by just creating new content the way that they've done before. That sort of creative the shift.  
 And what I heard from other people and some of the talks even just back, the folks at HubSpot were talking about how they even made the shift with the way that they approach content from quantity to quality. I think that's the precursor that sets up the importance of experience as well. Outside of just content experience, what's happening in the customer experience space and the experience economy that we live in. There's just convergence of which experience is super important.  
 When I think about experiential content and even what you're just saying. For us, one of the things that we talked about is the shifted mindset, shifting from this mindset of, "I'm going to great content," to actually, "I'm going to create experiences." And I think that's a whole sort of psychological approach that you can take to when you're trying to solve for whatever initiative you're trying to do in the digital space as well as people have been doing in the physical world for a while.  
Anna:Yeah and ... I'm sorry, go ahead, Randy. We probably have like the same thought.  
Randy:No, it's so interesting. Like I'm not even lying. I'm looking at my text. I have a buddy who is not even in marketing at all. He's the COO of this pharma company and he sends me a text. This is just yesterday. He says, "I'm at a pharma marketing summit. The presenter just now says the following: Their biggest costly mistake is too much content." And then he wrote to me, "Are you livid?" I wrote back to him. I'm like, "No, that speaker is absolutely right."  
 And I think that's what you're hitting on there, Ryan, is that we've been trained to think we have to create a certain quota of content versus perhaps as you're saying it's about no longer even just the quality of the content but the experience in that content.  
Ryan:Yeah. I'm super passionate about like ... Because for me, when I left the inbound world, I went to the experiential marketing world. It was super focused on this world in ways that companies think about how do we want people to experience our brand? How do we want them to interact with that? And so again, whether that is I'm showing up to the lobby of your office. I'm walking to your retail store front if you happened to be at B2B space that has that, or I'm receiving your product and I'm unboxing it, or I'm seeing you at an event, or you're sponsoring an event and I'm showing up.  
 The ways in which companies think about how important it is to treat those moments as products of the brands, experiences of the brand, I think there's this whole opportunity in the digital space to actually take and craft the experience that people have with our brand. So whether that'd be how we're serving them up appropriate content to the content itself, I think there's this radical opportunity today that people aren't quite viewing it through that mindset. Like in marketing, I feel like we've gotten so conditioned to like, "Oh, we have our website and in our website, I have a blog. And then I create some ebooks that I linked to a call to action and I do webinars, some emails." It has become so formulaic.  
 And even if we take those practices and apply it even with like ABM which I think is a really smart approach to marketing, we're still applying a lot of that same framework to it. I think it's right for innovation that goes to this experience lens and I think that's where when you do that, you can actually up the quality of the interaction, up the quality of the content, up the quality of everything that will resonate better with people.  
Anna:Well, and it's crazy too. Going back to your original comment about swapping out the logos and people not really being able to tell the difference. Even the stats on your site are insane like only one in four brands stands out to consumers, and that 98% to consumers are more inclined to make a purchase after an experience. It seems like there's more than enough data and evidence there about people, it's not enough to just be there and be present. It's really about differentiating yourselves from everybody else.  
Ryan:It's so true, and I don't have the stats in front of me. Just I geek out a little bit over this experience stats since it's the world that we live in. And it was something by this other experiential agency put out today, this report and had a bunch of fascinating stats about just the change even in experiential marketing which I think again is just indicative to consumer's expectations of brands, and more and more people have an expectation for brands to actually make a connection or make them feel better.  
 I think it has implications across the whole board and I think about it too and it even comes in the B2B space. A lot of the digital content world, B2B companies are creating a lot of that content like it's one thing when you focus on like brand experience and you're deciding to choose between like a Coke or a Pepsi when you have an even bigger decision in the B2B space which is often are, like they feel good, they feel comfortable. They feel connected to that decision that you're going to make where you're signing a year deal and you're spending thousands of dollars? I think the importance of what you create from a brand and the experience you have there is super valuable in making people feel confident even in that purchasing decision as well.  
 Sometimes, the more complex decisions can be made simpler by just feeling like, "Wow, this company gets me. They're serving me up the right information, the information is great." All of that go a long way, I think, in being able to help them instill like a confidence. And there's other stats that Walker had is by 2020, customer experiences are going to take price and product as a key brand differentiator. And I think a big thing of that is what people are doing in particular from the content that they're creating and putting it online.  
Anna:Nice. Yeah, I absolutely agree. So, Ryan, we've had a lot of great conversations so far about what is experiential content and why does it matter and the impact of it. Let's talk about some examples. But before we do, we're going to take a super quick break. So everybody, hang in there. We just have to hear from our sponsors real fast, and then we're going to come back with Ryan and we're actually going to give you some very tangible, amazing examples of what this all looks like.  
 So stick around and we will be right back.  
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Randy:All right, Ryan. So, we unpack what experiential content is and if you don't know what it is and you probably weren't listening to the first half of this podcast, so just rewind and then get back to this point. And now, what we're going to do is make sure that people can visualize it because I think you even said to me once, understanding this conceptually versus visualizing it, it just goes to that next level.  
 Maybe what you could help us do, what I'd love to understand is the different ways in which we can create experiential content, maybe even the different stages of the buyer journey or different ways because I know it's not just with a blog that we can do this or PDF. It's different ways that we're using those forms of content.  
Ryan:Yeah, totally. As I mentioned before, it's very much a mindset. And I think you can even think about it in this like buyer's journey and you can even think about in the digital space. What all companies are doing is we're trying to take people on this journey from awareness to advocacy, and throughout that process, we're like courting them and educating them and hopefully, they're purchasing and then even after they become customers, delighting them to the point that they're recommending and advocating us to others.  
 Along that digital journey, there's a ton of touch points that a company has with them as a brand and you've got a lot of different opportunities and the digital space to create these moments or inject content as well. And as I was saying before about experiential content, it's not a thing. It's not a tactic. Deliberately, we aren't referring to it as interactive content. BuzzFeed has interactive quizzes, people are like, "Oh, I should just have quizzes to all my blog posts because that's what BuzzFeed does on their content."  
 And I think that's a very sort of tactical approach where was ... We were talking about earlier is how do you have that whole sort of mindset towards it? So, oftentimes, I explained to people that experiential content can be anything from a piece of microcontent all the way to a microsite or even your website. But like all those things that fit in between it.  
 So I could probably answer it in like three quick examples of what a piece of microcontent might be. So, taking what you're already doing, if you have a robust blogging strategy that you're doing, within the framework of that blog, you're already used to embedding a video or imagery in some cases. But one way that you could take that blog post and make it more experiential to help people better understand what that brand is, is take that theme and maybe animate key elements to it. As people scroll through that blog post and hit different moments, elements of that story were actually animating and unfolding.  
 Or if you're trying to bring to life some different data visualization, different stats, allow people to contextualize that, charts or graphs, and allow them to actually interact with it and click on different elements of it or hover over a map of the country and show them what's happening in different geographical regions. Bringing in some of those elements that might be inactive, might be animated but allow people to take that story which you're already creating from a blog post and feel more connection to it is one example.  
Randy:That's a great one. Let's keep going through the bio journey.  
Ryan:Yeah. Another one is ... All right, so then from there, a lot of people are used to creating whether it'd be whitepapers or ebooks or reports, as marketers, we produce a lot of these but once people get to our landing page and download it, we have no idea. Like I often joked that like I collect PDFs and hope that they'll be worth something someday and I don't open them but they're just stored on my hard drive somewhere. And people wouldn't really know.  
 The ability to take what was an ebook and suddenly, I reimagine that as a piece of experiential content, something that lives digitally. You take that same content and as I sort of mentioning with the blog post, it can unfold before you. So, you reach key points of the story that you're trying to tell and as people are journeying through it, pieces are animating on which is pulling them a little bit more deeper emotionally into the content itself.  
 And then you can use interaction in smart ways. You might be looking at data. You might be looking at maps or you might be saying, "to help you better understand this, we want to set up a little bit of a quiz to see did you retain this or going into this where you're starting from?" There's a number of things that you can do and by keeping this on a digital thing that lives online, you're able to also get all the analytics and things that happen there. You can get really fun with this too. It's like start integrating like a chatbot so like Drift or whatever that you're using for like conversational marketing.  
 Now in real-time when you're engaging with that piece of content, you can be chatting with the authors in the brand that created it in the first place, and rather than having to put it behind like a gated landing page, if you're actually creating something that's of value that's worthwhile, the people let them get two-thirds, a third of the way through that piece of content and then gate it from there. Then allow them to unlock it with a form that's like embedded half way through rather than being like, "Hey, trust me. This is going to be awesome, like download this. Give me all your information first," provide a little bit of value upfront.  
Anna:I like that. I was just going to say I feel like especially PDFs are one of those things that marketers and content marketers just like create and they're like, "Ah." And then it's just like yeah, like you said it, just we have like 95 million PDFs on our hard drives that we don't ever, like maybe we go back and revisit but it's not actually like useful like long-term or there isn't really much, there's no interaction beyond that. So, I love that.  
Randy:Yeah, Ryan. And I think this is one area that Uberflip and Ceros both have philosophies around and I think we're aligned on them. I think that the challenge with PDFs, I often say also is that they're dead ends because they're downloaded. We are going outside of the browser, technically, sometimes we may open up as a tap within the browser but we're going outside of the browser that can keep us a next piece of content or on through that journey, which is such a problem when we think about this idea of wanting people to binge and consume more and engage more with us.  
 We got one more if I'm counting right. I think you've hit on two types, and I think you promised us three.  
Ryan:I'll give you three examples. The last one is we move through the journey. At very top of the funnel, we had like the conversion point when you're downloading like a PDF. But another place where we've just seen people see like massive results is with proposals. So sales decks, sales enablement, sales proposals and people converting. It's astonishing. The point when you're trying to get someone to purchase from your brand, so many companies take a word documents, transform that into PDF and that's what they send along as a proposal, like that's what most companies are doing.  
 But instead of reimagining that proposal, so we've had customer of ours that we'll take those proposals that are putting together, let's say in this like design space and you're putting together a proposal for an office redesign. And these would be things that would be like 20, 30, 50-page like static proposals that people are like flipping through instead imagine that's one experiential piece that people can journey through of interactive floor plan of the office that they're proposing, clicking into each of the areas and seeing specifically what's the furniture, what's the design of that are going to look like. Go down and then delve deeper into each of the aspects of the individual furniture itself.  
 There's a section where you get to meet your team in a fun way of animating each of the different people they'd be working with, a timeline of what this sort of like working like looks together and you can roll over each aspects of that timeline to get more detail. Same thing being it's in a digital space, you can easily have a menu that says present. And so if you are pitching to a large team, no longer are you making people flip through 30 pages to find that one thing that they're specifically looking for within the proposal, they can jump right to there and go there instantly.  
 And then on the other side, you're creating something that stylistically just beautiful. Two things that we've seen, the companies that we've worked with that have sort of reimagine that not only have their conversion rates gone up but some of the companies in particular have done this by offering services have been able to charge more for the same services because the way in which the proposal reflects their brand of the surfaces that they can provide.  
 So, there's a real tangible like financial ROI to this as well as all of the other intangible stuff that I think comes along with the brand experience with ability to be able to just track and see how our people engaging and sharing this. Like same thing with the PDF and a proposal. You don't know if they're opening it. You don't know if they're sharing it around. This just gives marketers much more insight not only into the data that's happening but the ability to create a better experience and share that.  
Anna:Well and I think what's crazy too is like some of those things that you mentioned don't even take a lot of effort but have such high impact. Like the video of the team member like somebody could record a quick 30-second like, "Hey, I'm Anna. I am so excited to work with you. I can't wait, like this is my role, this is how I'm going to work with you, can't wait to meet you." Like that somebody could do at their desk in 30 seconds and the value and impact of that just took it beyond just a static piece of content. Yeah, it's insane. It's awesome.  
 Ryan, those were amazing examples, and I think everybody's gears are probably turning and they're probably thinking about how they can start to make their content much more experiential. If they want to learn more about experiential content, where should they go?  
Ryan:Well, there's a couple of places that we've created just to help people just understand it and get inspired. A few things I'd point out is like ceros.com/inspire. It's kind of like Behance, so Adobe. If you're looking for that cool visual designs, we created a space that has like over a thousand examples of just beautiful examples of experiential content that you can sort by industry, sort by type, so you're looking for ebook or proposals or microcontent as well as like different elements there.  
 That's a great place just to go and kind of get inspired by. If you're looking like, "Hey, how do we operationalize this within our organization?" We've got ceros.com/inspire. And that's a place where there's just a bunch of resources that we offer to people and then obviously, if people are looking for solutions to do that, that's the bread and butter what Ceros is.  
Anna:Awesome. All right, everybody. Go and check it out and get inspired. Ryan, thank you so much for being on. We got to know the professional side of you. And what we like to do is also get to know the personal side of you. So, stick around with us for just a little bit longer because Randy has some fun questions planned for you. So, everybody, stick around we are going to get to know Ryan a little bit more after this.  
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Randy:All right, Ryan. We've talked all about these unexpected experiences, not just navigating through a blog post to knowing what we're coming to you. Something else that I learned about you that I find intriguing is that you like to go into bars where there's like hidden indoors. Most of us call these speakeasies. And you just never know what's coming. You think you've walked into a bar or some sort of store front and then all of a sudden, there's that trap door. This is going to be a question to all of us, where is the best speakeasy you've been to that's got that cool vibe, that place you'd want to go that you would recommend our listeners to check out? And is there a key word to get through?  
Ryan:Such a good question. And I know I was sharing that about it before. It's funny, there's a bunch of them in New York like where you can go through a barbershop or go through the front of it is like a toy store. And candidly, here in New York, it's probably been a year or so since I've been to one of my last ones. But there's something from me being like an experienced guy that just loves that idea of being transported and the name of the place I'm thinking about is escaping me. So, I'm butchering this question but what I love to say like sort of stay true to that era serving you beers and like even inside of it and sort of like paper bags and it's all like this cool Victorian stuff. So, I just love the idea of like being transported on a journey or experience. I'm going to go off topic just for a moment because you're in Toronto, right?  
Ryan:I haven't been to speakeasy there but I did go to when I was last time in Toronto, there was a bar that specialized in experiential cocktail. So, it wasn't like a speakeasy as well, but they have this whole menu of cocktails that like will serve with food that had been like flash frozen or came out with dry ice. It was like this cool epic cocktails that made it more than just a drink and presented you think this whole experience of having a cocktail. That plus the speakeasies turn me, like get me super fired up, but I unfortunately don't have any good tips for your listeners.  
Randy:It's okay. There's a cool one in Toronto, to your point, that has that. It's actually a barbershop as well. I think it's called The Gift Shop though, if I remember, and basically walk through a barbershop. It's a fully functioning barbershop, like there could be someone getting a haircut and you go into the back and it's this great small experience. They almost like a little bit ask to you at the door in terms of what nerve do you have coming in so you have to enter with confidence is more than the key word. I don't know, Anna, you got any speakeasies that you frequent?  
Anna:No, but I think there's another one in Toronto that ... No, in Cleveland, the one at content marketing road. I was thinking it was in Toronto because I saw you there with the doughnuts. There's like a cool doughnut shop upfront and then in the back there's like a whole cool bar.  
Randy:Yeah, you think you're going through like a freezer door or something, something weird like that. That was a cool vibe. The Convince & Convert party was there last week.  
Randy:That's what it is. All right, well, I think the key takeaway from this podcast today, Ryan, is make sure that we surprise people. There's so much content out there. There's so many bars out there. We're going to make sure that we have that trapped door, that experience is going to stand out. And I really thank you for challenging our listeners on that today. For everyone who's joined in, again, check out ceros.com/inspire. It's been Ryan Brown with us. I'm Randy from Uberflip with Anna over from Convince & Convert. This has been the Conex Podcast and we thank you so much for tuning in.  
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