Why the Account Manager Shouldn’t Just Keep the Client Happy

Why the Account Manager Shouldn’t Just Keep the Client Happy

Andi Robbins, Integration Director at Riester, joins the Content Experience Show to discuss account managers and ways to collaborate effectively on content.

In This Episode:

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Full Episode Details

Stop, Collaborate, and Listen!

The customer is always right, right? This may seem like a cut and dry statement, but in reality, the answer can be a little more complex. In the content world, this can often cause tension when you have a content team working to create the best content possible and an account manager whose primary objective is to keep the client happy.

Having a content team and an account manager square up to defend separate objectives is a surefire way to end up with a less than stellar product. When it seems like the client and the content team are suggesting two different things, it’s important to remember that everyone is on the same side. The ultimate goal isn’t just to pacify a stressed-out client or even to create a breathtaking piece of art. The goal of any project is to help the client achieve their business objectives—and the client might not know what that looks like.

Whichever side you may sit on in this scenario, everyone is at the table for a reason. As Andi Robbins of Riester says, “Be a part of the conversation. Don’t dominate it.” You may be surprised at the value of an opinion you might otherwise ignore, and you will certainly set yourself up to create a better final product.

In This Episode

  • How to lead by being a part of the conversation.
  • How to work collaboratively between content strategists and account managers.
  • Tips for effectively selling content.
  • How to approach strategy change with a client.
  • How to create better content.

Quotes From This Episode

“Allow yourself to be part of the conversation, as opposed to always driving and determining the conversation.” — @AndiRobbins

“People tend to see more value when you’re not trying to shove it down everybody’s throat.” — @AndiRobbins

Make sure that you're not wasting the good ideas on the wrong occasion. Click To Tweet


Content Experience Lightning Round

What are you currently binge watching?

Andi just finished The Handmaid’s Tale, and she’s also a huge fan of Billions!

If you had a free ticket to anywhere in the world, where would you go?

Even though she’s been there before, Andi would go back to Paris!

See you next week!

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Episode Transcript

Anna Hrach:Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Content Experience Show podcast. My name is Anna Hrach, and I'm filling in for Randy this week. Randy is unfortunately unable to join us but of course, he is always here in spirit. I'm actually really bummed that Randy couldn't make it for this episode because we really do have a very fantastic guest this week, my very dear friend and former colleague, Andi Robbins joins us. She is the integration director and business development manager at RIESTER, which is one of Phoenix's largest and longest running ad agencies.
Now, I've had the great fortune of working with Andi at two different companies actually. The first was Philosophy, the skincare and cosmetics company. We were actually there at the corporate office together. And the second was at RIESTER, where I was a content strategist, and way back then, she was a project manager. So she has definitely moved up and for very good reason.
Now, one of the many reasons I've been wanting to have Andi on for quite some time is because she just brings so many different hats to the table, and she is a genuinely brilliant digital marketer. She actually has a very solid background in content strategy and creation. But then as part of her day to day job, she actually does account management, and sales, and the entire integration piece. So she has this unbelievably well-rounded perspective, and you're going to hear that today. In fact, some of the things that you're going to hear from our conversation are her perspectives on things like how we can overcome this misconception that what we do every single day is the "just copy", right? You actually, I believe, at one point hear me have quite a strong reaction to Andi just saying it's just copy, or having clients say it's just copy.
Some of the other things that we talked about were her ability in some of the approaches that she has to get buy-in on content from those who don't necessarily understand its full value yet. She gives a lot of really great tips and tricks on how she handles clients, and some of the things and approaches that she uses to really help them understand its value. And of course, most importantly, one of the things that she really touches on, and we spend a lot of time on is really talking about why account managers and project managers really need to have a seat at the table when it comes to content planning and creation. Even if the word content isn't in their title, they really do need to be there.
Working with Andi has really taught me this, that creating content in our content silos is never the best idea, and it really helps to have the right account people in the room, but she also has some tips and tricks for those account managers out there who want a seat at the table as well. So without further ado, let's hear what Andi has to say about content and her thoughts, because I think you all are really going to love just the different perspective that she brings and the amazing insights that she drops in this episode. She really does bring a very sort of yin and yang balance to the other half of our usual content conversation. So let's hear what Andi has to say.
Andi, thank you so much for joining me today. I am so excited to have you on the podcast. I've actually really wanted to have you on the podcast for a long time. Our schedules haven't worked out. You travel a lot, you bounce back and forth between LA and Phoenix, but we have worked together a lot in the past. You are someone that I adore working with, and I'm so happy to have you here because I think you're going to provide an amazing perspective for everybody today.
Andi Robbins:Well, I am super flattered that you would have me on your podcast. Thank you so much for inviting me. This is my first podcast. This is my first time podcasting from a closet.
Anna Hrach:It is really?
Andi Robbins:Yeah.
Anna Hrach:Yeah.
Andi Robbins:So thank you so much for having me, Anna.
Anna Hrach:So fun fact, so Andi just mentioned first time podcasting from a closet. For those of you who don't know, I actually record out of my walk-in closet because the clothes make an amazing sound dampener. So I don't have like this super fancy studio. Every time you hear me every single week, it's actually from my walk-in closet. And Andi and I are hanging out in there now. But so Andi, so you are genuinely somebody I've wanted to have here for a long time because you and I have worked at a couple of different places together. So I know you really well, but would you mind just telling everybody a little bit about yourself?
Andi Robbins:Sure. I'm going to try to make this super interesting, at least less boring, not a long story-
Anna Hrach:It is great. You've worked at a lot of different companies.
Andi Robbins:I've worked for a few companies. So I started out working for Philosophy Skincare, doing e-commerce marketing for them. I worked on their social media, building their Facebook presence, also doing email marketing with our email marketing team, and then as we redesigned our website. It was really instrumental in every design project there. Then moved to REISTER advertising agency where I worked in digital project management for a couple years, overseeing all range of projects from very minor $50,000 website build outs to very large scale websites and mobile apps, so quite of a lot of experience there, left for a little bit, did some tech sales, so selling some technology that was developed for educational institutions, so partnered directly with universities, higher education. That was an interesting little break on life. And then I went to Red Door Interactive in San Diego. I worked for them for a while doing account management specifically in digital work. And now here I am back at REISTER out of our LA office, working on account management again, sort of specializing in digital.
Anna Hrach:So one of the things that I love is that because you've had all this different experience, you wear so many different hats. Now, I don't mean this as a slam against anyone, but a lot of times when you work in the agency field, and writers out there, I know you know how I feel about this, but a lot of times, agency account managers are oftentimes the "relationship" people, and they're very much trying to stay neutral. And they have a really hard job, not to give them any sort of flack, but they're trying to make the client happy, they're trying to make the internal agency people happy. But one of the things that I've always loved about working with you is you have never taken that stance. First and foremost, I think it happens to be because you started off as a content creator with Philosophy, and so you wear this totally different hat. Can you tell us a little bit about how you approach project management, and just how content creation and how content strategy actually fits into your role?
Andi Robbins:I think when it comes down to it in the role of account manager, a lot of times where problems arise, people tend to fall back on, whatever the client asks for is what we need to deliver.
Anna Hrach:Right.
Andi Robbins:So it's more about keeping the client happy, it's not about thinking through what's actually going to be best for the client and what's going to help them deliver on their goals. And so a lot of times people just get a little bit caught up in making sure that we're delivering on what the client's asking for, as opposed to considering the bigger picture and how does this fit into the overall strategy, and if they're asking for it, is that actually what's right for their business objectives. And so that's where there's sometimes a disconnect. And I feel like a lot of times if you go back to take that step back and think, what's the big picture here, what's the problem we're trying to solve, what's the goal we're trying to achieve, and what tactics, and what elements, and what strategic pieces are going to fit that, that's where our value should be as the account management team.
And so it's kind of thinking through that request and asking yourself, does this make sense? Is this the best thing? And then going back to the team and leveraging them and their expertise to help you figure out how we really answer that question, and then go back to the client with a well thought out strategy. So it's not just, "Okay, you've asked me for this one thing, I'm going to go write a brief now against that one thing and deliver it," it's, "Let's go back and think about the question you've asked me and the thing you've asked me to do, and really consider, does that make the most sense to help you be successful as a client, as a brand?"
Anna Hrach:Which is amazing because I think oftentimes, especially working as a content creator, and a content strategist, and a content marketing strategist, we get really caught up in sort of what the best situation would be, which isn't always the ideal situation for a client. And so, one of the things that I love about the way that you approach project management, is that you do have that content background, and so you would always ground our conversations, and not in like a Debbie Downer way, but in a way that was very true, like you just said, to client goals and client objectives. And so, how do you fight for that position in the room when content is being thought of, and content strategy is happening, content marketing plans are being made? Because a lot of times account managers get cut out of that process unfortunately.
Andi Robbins:We do. And so I wouldn't say it's done gracefully, or it's done well, but sometimes you have to fight the fight, you have to fight every battle. We always like to try to pick our battles, and sometimes that looks more like picking every single battle. But I think a big piece of it, though, as opposed to just fighting the battle, is to showing that you're actually providing value to the team. So if you're just coming into the team and you're just sort of saying ... you're giving directives and you're giving orders, they're going to be more likely to push you out. But when you come to the team and you frame it from a perspective of, here's the problem, let's collaborate as a team, and you're opening up the conversation to people, as opposed to just telling people what to do, and giving orders, people are a lot more interested and willing to invite you back into the conversation, and they start to see value.
So when you allow yourself to be part of the conversation, as opposed to always driving and determining the conversation, and sort of just contributing whether it's your anecdotal experience with the client, or whether it's the value that you're providing in terms of expertise in the industry, because you've worked in it for a long time, and you're sort of a specialist in that area, people tend to see more of that value when you're not trying to shove it down everybody's throat. So it's kind of a little bit of a balancing act where you want to come in and say, "I want to bring you guys in, I want to open this up, but I also want you to invite me into the process." Sometimes it's a little bit more of, I'm going to kick the door in, and I'm going to make sure I'm involved in the process.
Anna Hrach:Right. I mean, sometimes you have to.
Andi Robbins:Yes, but if you manage that well, and if you, again, continue to provide and prove value to the team as you're involved, you're going to find that they're going to be more likely to invite you to be part of that collaborative process moving forward.
Anna Hrach:Well, and it's just super interesting too, because we tend to think of just content creators and content strategists as people with content titles, but you, especially, I can speak from experience, have directly contributed a lot of amazing content ideas. And I think-
Andi Robbins:Thank you.
Anna Hrach:No, you really have. And whether you were invited proactively, or you did fight and break down the door, there was just such a different perspective. And I think a lot of times as content creators and content strategists, content marketing strategist, we have this tendency to think that, well, we're the experts, and we're the content creators, and we have the content title, but we're missing a piece. And I think a huge piece of that is that direct connection like you had mentioned to the client, and you're there talking to them every day, and you're also talking to people on the agency side every day. So what is it that content creators are missing? Like, what are things that we should just be keeping our eyes and ears out for as we're coming up with these plans, as we're writing this content?
Andi Robbins:I wouldn't say that it's something that you guys are missing. I think that from the majority of the content strategists that I've worked with, particularly you, I mean, you're obviously one of the best content creators I've ever worked with-
Anna Hrach:Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
Andi Robbins:[inaudible 00:11:12] for you, just the truth, okay? You have tremendous experience, you have tremendous insight into the work that you're doing. You're taking into so many different considerations. You're balancing brand messaging, you're balancing sales objectives, conversion goals, search engine optimization, there's so many different considerations that you're taking into account when you're doing the work. I don't think it's realistic to expect one person to be able to do everything. So when you're already balancing all of those, to have a partner, or to have somebody else you can kind of come and just weigh in on some of those other aspects, being the expert on, I spend every day with the client, or I talk to the client every single day and I know that his hot button is the usage of this one word, or I sat in this brand study that they did five years ago, and I know that this was a finding that came out of it. They're just going to little pieces of information that you're not necessarily going to know.
And that's where I think it comes into just looking at it as a balance, and again, it's this collaborative process where each person kind of brings a puzzle to the table. And when you put it all together, you have a beautifully completed puzzle. But it's kind of understanding that you don't have to know everything, you don't have to have all the questions, or all the questions answered. But when you partner with somebody that can sort of help fill in the gaps, then you can really complete the picture. So maybe it's reframing it from instead of what are we missing, it's figuring out what gaps are there and who can help me fill those in and just understanding that they're always going to be there.
Anna Hrach:That's actually a really good point because I feel like especially on the agency side, there is sort of this adversarial approach to the delivery side, especially with content and creative to the account side, and it doesn't have to be that way. And I love the point that you just brought up about having a partner, and you totally have your eye on the client, and what makes them happy, and their strategy, and their goals. And you can come into those meetings and actually help supplement everything we're talking about, everything that we're planning, everything that we're strategizing, and you can make it a complete picture. So by partnering together, we can actually present something to the client that is a home run the first time, it's not multiple rounds of revisions, it's not going back to the drawing board. It's actually a partnership and a collaboration that is often overlooked.
Andi Robbins:Absolutely. And that's where the clients get true value with working with an agency that has all this experience, but also will invest in having people that really understand content marketing and content strategy because content ... I have clients right now where they don't see the value in content, and we're consistently trying to get that message across them why it's important, whether it's to boost their search performance, whether it's to help create the more complete user experience. I mean, if somebody is going to take the time and they're going to go to visit their website, and then they get there and there's no content to help greet them, or transfer that brand message, or help them understand what's going on, it was a wasted interaction.
And so that's where we really rely on having the specialists like you guys to help us figure out what does that experience need to be. And so much of it is about anticipating the user's needs. And that's why we're not necessarily the strongest, because a lot of times when you're balancing content strategy and account relationships, the account people are pretty much always going to be representing the clients' interest. And then you have the designers and the content strategists who are typically going to be more thinking about kind of maintaining the integrity of the discipline that they're representing. And so there is inherently going to be a bit of tension that arises between those two objectives because they're never going to be completely in line. But what the beauty is, is when you recognize that that tension actually pushes you to create a better product because it pushes you to work together and really understand, if you take the time, to really understand the perspective of the other person and what they're really trying to achieve. That's when I think you really come up with something that's an amazing product.
Anna Hrach:I love that thought. So I would hate ... Well, first off, I think it's a good point to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors because you kind of just dropped the mic. So I feel like it's a good time to take a break, but when we come back from our break and hearing from our sponsors, I want to talk a little bit more about the sales process and how we can kind of help people understand the value of content because that is part of your day to day job. So stick with us, we are going to take a super quick break to talk to our sponsors and then we will be right back with Andi Robbins.
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Anna Hrach:Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Content Experience Show podcast. We are here with Andi Robbins. And right before the break, Andi started to touch on some really cool stuff about selling content. So Andi, I want to pick your brain on what it takes to actually sell content because we know that content is critical, and that even things like having a beautiful design, but having terrible content is a horrible experience, and that can really just fall flat on its face. But then again, content can be expensive, content creation can be really expensive. And sometimes when clients, or even when you were internal at in-house companies, that time and that effort seems like a lot. So when you are confronted with having to sell content, what are some of the tips and tricks that you use? What are some of the talking points that you actually leverage to help people understand just how critical content is?
Andi Robbins:Well, to start with, I would say, it definitely depends on the problem that we're trying to solve. So that's going to definitely impact ... I don't want to say the value of content, because in my opinion, content is always value. But when it comes down to a budget play, and you're talking about dollars to spend, versus what you actually get, you do have to weigh in the cost, the benefit of integrating really solid content. So, for example, if you're going to make an SEO play, SEO can't exist without content. I mean, it can, but-
Anna Hrach:Good point, yeah.
Andi Robbins:It's not good SEO, right?
Anna Hrach:It's not going to be the best experience possible, right.
Andi Robbins:It's not. So if we're going to talk about content to support SEO, for example, we need to frame that from our perspective, a lot of times have a longer term play. So that might be if they've got their website content sort of buttoned up, they've got other areas of their content more buttoned up, then let's start looking at your long term play with some of the more organic tools. But if you're in a more immediate native content, you've got a website that's very devoid of content, a lot of times that means you're probably in a situation where you've got a client that doesn't really see the inherent value and why it's important to use content to create a customer experience, to help create that brand experience with a user. And that can be really difficult to sell in with somebody like that. And so a lot of times where I've found success is through demonstrating good content, and sometimes that means giving good content away for free.
Anna Hrach:Ooh.
Andi Robbins:So spec creative.
Anna Hrach:[inaudible 00:18:38] spec creative is so controversial.
Andi Robbins:It's super controversial, and it can get you into trouble sometimes, for sure. And you're not always in a situation where you can even give away spec creatives. So I find that that tends to be a more effective tool with somebody who already is a client, but they're maybe not understanding what you're trying to sell them in. I have a lot of clients, for example, who look at content and they think, "Well, I can write my own content. I don't need to pay you to do it." [crosstalk 00:18:59]-
Anna Hrach:Literally, everybody just cringed.
Andi Robbins:Everybody.
Anna Hrach:Everybody, yeah.
Andi Robbins:Trust me, I die inside when I hear that, and I pull my hair out and I think-
Anna Hrach:Like, "It's just content, we can write it."
Andi Robbins:And it's not even that, they say it's just copy, "It's just copy on a page, I can write that."
Anna Hrach:Oh, the worst.
Andi Robbins:It's the worst, and the issue is, again, they're not seeing the value. And so what we do in that case is we say, "Okay, great. So you go ahead and write the copy." And then at the same time, we'll kind of go aside and we'll bring in our content strategist, and we'll craft the copying.
Anna Hrach:Wow.
Andi Robbins:We know that we've got the outline of the page, we know what they're going to write, and we'll write it out. And when you show them the content that a strategist has written, and when you show them the value that you get from somebody who actually understands a content strategy in a well thought out plan, and they've got a goal, and objective, and it's written in a way that supports the brand message, but is also going to help guide somebody through whatever sort of funnel we're working with at that time, that's how you show them the value and that's where they look at it and they think, "I never could have written that," or, "There's nobody on my team that could have written that."
Anna Hrach:Wow.
Andi Robbins:And so if you sort of start just showing them bit by bit, the value and what a difference it makes when it's done well, and how well it represents their brand and we can really reflect their brand tone, I think that's a really good way of doing it. But again, you're sort of dipping your toe in that dangerous water of spec creative, which is always touchy, but I found a lot of value and I've actually had a lot of wins by doing that.
Anna Hrach:I feel like that's almost like when you are sort of like car shopping, and they're like, "Yeah, sure, you could totally get the base model, but look at the luxury model, look at the high end." And it's like, once you start looking at the high end model, you're like, "Oh, oh, yeah. Okay, I get it. I see it. I see what I'm paying for." But that's super tricky. I like it. I like that a lot.
Andi Robbins:It is. But I think part of it too, is also when you come to them with that, you also have to have a way to be able to measure success. Because you can say, "This content reads much better than what you've presented," but then the question they come back to you a lot of times is, "Well, I don't think it matters, like it says the same thing. The user is going to get the same information." But when you say, "Okay. Well, what we're going to do is we're going to take a look at the engagement metrics, so we're going to start monitoring time on site, we're going to start monitoring, are they engaging with more pages on the website? Are they now signing up for the email newsletter that's on that page because they're more interested in the content?" So what you have to do is sort of breadcrumb them a little bit, like, give them the pieces where it kind of starts making sense to them. And it's like seeing is believing. They're not just going to believe it because it sounds good. They actually have to see some sort of demonstrable measurement of success.
And so when we can tie it back to data, and we can tie it back to analytics, or we can tie it back to something that's measurable, it's a much easier case in the future. Say, "We did this for you once, we saw this really great performance, now let's keep trying it and seeing if we can continue to grow that success."
Anna Hrach:So have you seen, because you've been doing this for some time now, have you actually seen the adoption of content get better, do people seem to understand it more? Or is it still kind of, we need to see some spec creative first, or we need to see some kind of sample plan first?7
Andi Robbins:I mean, honestly, I would say it varies and it differs based on the client, based on the brand, based on the industry. I'm really fortunate to have some clients that produce incredible volumes of content. And when we go back and look at their analytics, and we look at what's driving traffic to their website, and we look at what their users are engaging with, we can see that it's the content, but there's always again, a balance. So sometimes you have these really amazing producers of content, but they're producing too much of it, and it's not in a strategy, it's not in a well thought form. It's just kind of like this content blizzard, and it's just out there, and it's ...
We're doing a website redesign for a client right now and they have about 1400 pages of like blog content and recipe contents. And so we're kind of going through this effort right now where we're like, how do we boil this down into content pillars, and how do we organize this in a way that makes sense for the users to be able to find? And we also don't want to just dump everything that we don't see perceive to be valuable because that's giving them SEO performance, it's boosting their rankings. So there's a lot to consider when you're trying to call through somebody else's content that they've created.
So it's kind of like a blessing and a curse to have somebody who is such a great content creator because they can create lots of it and it's really good, but it's not always organized well. And again, that's where you really need the support of a really solid content strategist to be able to wrap your arms around everything, and parse it, and make sure that, does it make sense? Are we just creating all this content but it's not actually doing anything for a brand, or it's not actually doing anything to drive that purchase. So again, there's always kind of a balance to figure out, what are we actually doing from a strategic perspective, and how does this support our overall brand goals and sales goals.
Anna Hrach:So I love that one, I love the term content blizzard. That's amazing. I think I'm actually going to start using that. I, like earlier, was kind of working through some content, auditing some content and was thinking it was just kind of a dumpster fire. But I like content blizzard, it's a little bit kinder, and then I think we've all kind of worked on projects like that where to your point, and I love that point that you just made, which is that, it's one thing to have an amazing content creator to create volumes of content, but if that content isn't actually helping achieve goals and objectives, like what is it really worth? It doesn't matter.
I know this is like beating a dead horse here, because the industry now is all about not creating content for content's sake, but I don't think people have really adopted that. And I think from your perspective, like when you actually are working with a client and you do have to sift through like 1500 pages of blog content, I mean, quantifying how much they've spent, but then also trying to tell them that it's better off if we change strategy and create more content in this direction, it puts you in a really difficult spot.
Andi Robbins:It's a hard conversation to have, we get it, but I think, again, that if you, like everything else, if you take it back and you root it in what's true to the brand, what's relevant to the brand, and what makes sense for them to speak about, it's a much easier conversation. It's kind of like telling somebody that their baby's ugly. That's a horrible thing to say.
Anna Hrach:Yeah, I know. I've used that analogy before a lot, yeah.
Andi Robbins:It's a horrible thing to say, and there's got to be a nice way to say it and it's always going to hurt, but at the end of the day, if you say it with love, and you know that you're coming from a good place, and you're coming from a place that, I want to make you more successful and I want to make your customer happier, those are coming from a good place. So it's taking it back to ... We have to think about what messages, what content do we have that lifts up the brand message, that helps our users better align with us, better understand who we are, why we're doing what we're doing, and why we're different from our competitors, but then also what's relevant to our product. Are we talking about political movements when we're not a brand that should be playing in that space? Or are we talking about recipes when it's not really relevant to the content and the product that we're selling?
It's really thinking through what makes sense. I think a lot of times with brands and even with agencies, we get into this sometimes, where we get so attached to an idea that we've just started speaking to ourselves. And we're talking about something where it's this really cool idea, but when you actually take those 10 steps back and look at the idea, it's not at all connected to what's happening with the brand, and it just really doesn't make sense. And it hurts, but sometimes you just have to back away from those ideas.
Anna Hrach:I love that. Yeah, it's really hard, especially being a content creator, and being creative, and coming up with creative ideas where it might be a good idea, but maybe it's not the right idea for this right client. I totally agree. And that's the hardest pill to swallow I think as content creators, content marketers. So in that instance then, to flip the table a little bit, for the final question, what sort of key tips or tricks would you impart being a content creator yourself, but also managing accounts, and managing client relationships, and being a digital strategist? What are some tips that you would love to impart on people to just create better content?
Andi Robbins:Well, one of the kind of themes that's been staying with me lately is just thinking about things from multiple perspectives. So a lot of times I'm thinking about something, whether it's a piece of content that we're creating, or a landing page that we're designing, or a video script that we're writing, whatever it is, I'm thinking about it from the perspective of what's going to look beautiful? What's going to be beautiful? What's going to be quality? What's going to be interesting? What's going to be exciting? And that's not enough. So then it's thinking about it from the client's perspective, and then thinking about what's going to help move the needle? What's going to help drive my brand message? What's going to help people purchase my product?
And then you have to take it further to now think about from the users' perspective, what does it mean to them when they engage with that piece of content? And are they actually getting the right message? Because so much of the work ... I shouldn't say so much, but some of the work that we've been doing lately, when I go back and look at it through that user's lens and through that customer's lens, I'm thinking this isn't making sense, and I don't know what they want me to do with this message. And it's interesting and it's cool, but I'm not actually sure what my next step is. So I think what's really important is to take the time to really think through your message and think through your strategy to make sure that you're considering it from all different perspectives, and also considering it from the different perspectives of the customer journey. So is this something that's truly supposed to be an awareness focus message? Because if that's the case, are we really pushing that message, or are we maybe focusing too much on conversion, when it should be awareness?
So really making sure that piece of content and what you're creating is appropriate for the phase of the funnel that they're in, and not it's going to make sense for them, but again, that it's always reinforcing those brand messages, and that's it's done in a way that's consistent, it's just going to make sense.
Anna Hrach:Nice. I feel like you wrapped up so many ideas and tips. That was like the ultimate tip in tray. I know, but I really do, I love the different perspectives messages, because you're right, I think it's so easy to say, "This is my strategy, this is the direction we should go. So let's go." But then it's like, you're just one person and you're working in a silo, so it's important to consider all of those other perspectives. So no, I totally agree. I think that's amazing.
Andi Robbins:Well, thank you. I think we tend to get a little bit protective sometimes of the work that we're doing and the amazing idea that we've had, and it can be easy sometimes to forget that there're other people to consider in this whole equation, and those people are customers, and those people are clients, and they're important. And so sometimes you have to sort of let go of that really cool thing because it doesn't make sense. But that doesn't mean it's dead, the idea's never dead. You can always sort of like, make it work somewhere else. Hang on to those good ideas, but make sure that you're not wasting the good ideas on the wrong occasion.
Anna Hrach:I feel like there's no greater mic drop than that. So Andi, thank you so much for joining us.
Andi Robbins:Thank you.
Anna Hrach:We have gotten to know a little bit about you from the professional side, we want to just get to know a little bit more about you from the personal side. So if you wouldn't mind hanging with us for just a few more minutes, we're going to ask you just a couple of personal questions.
Andi Robbins:Oh, my gosh, here we go.
Anna Hrach:Okay. Everybody, stick with us and we'll be right back.
All right. So Andi, I know you because we-
Andi Robbins:I'm nervous.
Anna Hrach:No, don't be nervous. Don't be nervous. I'm not going to throw like any sort of curveballs at you.
Andi Robbins:Okay.
Anna Hrach:I mean-
Andi Robbins:I know you can.
Anna Hrach:I mean, I can, but I won't.
Andi Robbins:Okay, all right.
Anna Hrach:I'll be nice.
Andi Robbins:Okay.
Anna Hrach:So I've known you for a long time, but there are things that I still don't know about you. So for example, what are you binge watching right now? Is there a Netflix show? Is there a Hulu show, an HBO Go show? Like, what is the top of your list right now?
Andi Robbins:So that's kind of funny that you ask. Binge watching is a little bit interesting for me because I live in a spot that has sort of ... My WiFi is a little spotty, we'll just leave it at that. And so-
Anna Hrach:That's horrible.
Andi Robbins:... I'm lucky if I can get through a full episode of anything before my WiFi sort of dies on me. And when that happens I kind of just take it as a signal to go do something else more productive. But, so I will say there are a couple things that I've either just finished binge watching, or I'm in the process of watching. Well, I just finished Handmaid's Tale-
Anna Hrach:Yeah, it's excellent.
Andi Robbins:... which we talked a little bit about, which is amazing.
Anna Hrach:Excellent, yes.
Andi Robbins:I also just finished up the latest season of Billions, which if you're not watching Billions, you need to watch Billions-
Anna Hrach:I have not.
Andi Robbins:... like watch Billions. You need to watch Billions.
Anna Hrach:Is that Showtime?
Andi Robbins:It's Showtime.
Anna Hrach:Okay.
Andi Robbins:It's unbelievable. It's everything that you want. It's-
Anna Hrach:Os that the Meghan Markle show?
Andi Robbins:No, that's Suits.
Anna Hrach:Oh, sorry.
Andi Robbins:No.
Anna Hrach:Okay.
Andi Robbins:That's every once in a-
Anna Hrach:Okay, okay. [crosstalk 00:31:02]. Oh, no, Billions is Paul Giamatti-
Andi Robbins:Yes.
Anna Hrach:And then ... Yeah. Okay.
Andi Robbins:It's so good, oh, my god. It's amazing. If you're like into fin.... You don't have to be into finance. If you're into drama, it's just great. And then of course, there's Shameless because that show just like never ... You can't guess what's going to happen and it's just always good.
Anna Hrach:I'm always surprised at how long that show has actually been on. Isn't it like seven or eight season now?
Andi Robbins:Yeah, the ninth season is coming out in September.
Anna Hrach:Nine? Okay.
Andi Robbins:Yeah. So it's good.
Anna Hrach:Okay. So I need to update my Netflix and my streaming cues.
Andi Robbins:I'll share my Showtime password if you need it. Don't tell Showtime.
Anna Hrach:I would appreciate that.
Andi Robbins:I hope no one's listening.
Anna Hrach:No, no one from Showtime is listening, I don't think. Okay, so last question here. If you were handed a free ticket to anywhere in the world, like you could literally just show up at the airport and get on and go anywhere in the world, where would you go?
Andi Robbins:I mean, this is going to sound super lame, but I mean, top of my head, I would probably say Paris. And it's lame because-
Anna Hrach:Why is that lame?
Andi Robbins:... I've already been there. I just feel like it's a little cliché, but I just think it's one of the most beautiful cities in the world. The food is amazing, the wine is just incredible.
Anna Hrach:Fair.
Andi Robbins:I mean, whether you're going to get an amazing authentic Burgundy, or a champagne from the champagne caves.
Anna Hrach:Oh, you actually like know wine from the region?
Andi Robbins:Yeah. So there's like incredible wine to be enjoyed, the art, the culture, the architecture, the museums, the music. I feel like there's something for everyone in Paris. And just everywhere you go, it's beautiful. I mean, you have the beautiful lights, and just the environment, the romanticism of the whole thing is just ... It's a little bit cliché and cheesy, but I just love it.
Anna Hrach:No, it's not cliché and cheesy. But did you actually hear that there're sort of the syndrome, and I'm totally blanking on what it's called, but like tourists go and they basically become disenchanted with Paris because movies, and music, and TV, and books portray it in one way, and then when you get there, it's sort of just like another kind of massive, big city, and people become like really depressed?
Andi Robbins:I think it is what you make it. I mean, I could see that you could go to Paris and you could have your expectations set really specifically on a very unique experience. And if maybe you don't have that experience, you could be disappointed. But if you just go to Paris, and you just open yourself up to like let the experience be whatever it's going to be, don't over plan it, don't set your expectations, just go there and just be in Paris, you're going to have an amazing time.
Anna Hrach:I think that is fantastic advice, and I couldn't think of a better way to close the show. So Andi, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
Andi Robbins:Thank you so much for having me.
Anna Hrach:It's been fantastic to have you.
Andi Robbins:That's been super fun.
Anna Hrach:And thank you, everybody, for joining the Content Experience Show podcast. We are available wherever you listen to podcasts, including iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, all that good stuff. Until next time, I'm Anna Hrach from Convince and Convert, and Randy Frisch from Uberflip will be joining us next time. Thank you so much, and we will talk to you soon.
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