Clowns, Charlatans, and Social Media Name Calling

What's interesting is that it's really only people with very little business skill, who hire consultants with very little business skill. There will always be the blind leading the blind. I love your commentary on this Mr Baer. I believe, however, that Gary Vee should be able to pull off calling people clowns. Surely people get that he's just kind of spazzy. It's one of the reasons we love him :-)

I think that it is comes down to giving people what they paid for. However, if that does not happen, to me it could be seen as cheating the client in the case where the service provider promised more than he/she could actually do.

Jay, I think you nailed it when you said 'the goal is to be good at business b/c of social media.' There are lots of influential people in this space that don't come from a business background and are scrambling to monetize their wealth of information. At the same time they're seeing others, who they consider to be 'less involved' and 'less understanding,' profiting from social media. They get angry, take the fight onto their turf, and write some over-the-top blog post attacking these 'clowns.'

Social media needed a heavy hitter to step up and address this issue for a while now. I’m glad you were the one to do it.

I don't care that Gary V. called them clowns. I am upset that he took the easy way out. There are so many more colorful words that he could have used.

Great points Jay! I've got a background in international business development across a wide range of businesses and I have to say that one of the first things I notice is whether the social media "consultant" or "expert" has a business background or not. People with real business expertise really stand out. But I also notice that different levels of business expertise are called upon for the different ways you can use social media.

Good job, Jay! I spent far too much of my brain cells on worrying about people this type of experience or that type of offer and frankly it doesn't matter. I'm with you, this is about business and the very reason there is push back from prospects who want guaranteed success is because we are in the early days and there is much more to social channels than broadcast and cash register. We are going through a shift in job functions and internal customer service while research and listening have become new disciplines many companies are not used to embracing. There are snail oil salespeople in every discipline, industry and walk of life and social media are not immune or unique.

Thank you, Jay, for standing up for everyone in the social media business. Everyone is doing the best they can in this moment with what knowledge they have right now. You're right, social media is still new and many people are excited about what ROI it can bring that they are getting caught up with putting $$ signs on social media. And maybe some of them have come up with a formula or step by step approach. In the long run, social media is about marketing and marketing involves brand management and customer service, among other things that include sales. I agree with you that a lot of people only see the sales part of social media. I hope that through the leaders of social media that they will become more aware of the other parts that go into a social media campaign. And for those who are looking for social media experts, should read the information the "expert" has on their page to know where they stand and what they believe in when it comes to social media.

I learned in my own experience that when a person is ready to learn, they'll get out of that narrow box and will find new learnings on their path to greater awareness. It's harmful to call people clowns. It's much better to educate and put out good content to help those who do not understand get exposure to what they can learn and grow from. At least, that's the way I have learned that works the best with educating people. When they're ready to learn, they'll notice the information.

What a treat it has been to read this post and the comment thread! Jay, I already had a lot if respect for you, and after reading this post, it grew exponentially. I want to second the notion of social media professionals focusing on a nich. Companies looking to hire a social media professional should also try and recruit people with experience in their industry.

Great post, Jay. I think that this is a great point. Not everyone is going to have the same experiences and backgrounds, but that doesn't mean that some people are charlatans while others are masters.

I would say that I have less of a business background than a lot of people, but does that mean that I'll be bad at my job? I don't think so. I just bring something different to the table. I have a background in PR training and in many jobs where I had to deal directly with people. That's what I bring to the social media table... I bring people skills. The social aspect of social media. Does that mean my business decisions are bad? I don't think so (and thankfully neither does my boss), it just means that they may be different than some other people's. I got lucky that my company saw what I was capable of doing and took a chance on me despite the fact that this was my first "real" venture into the space. Everything seems to be working out so far.

Sometimes these people who can look at things from a different perspective are the ones who wind up coming out on top.

I do however think that there may be a an excessive amount of people who claim to be "social media experts", but who am I to say that they're not? If they're doing their thing and it's working, then good for them. There are a few whom I wish wouldn't call themselves "experts", but again that's my experiences and backgrounds looking at it from my perspective. If companies can find a social media expert that meshes well with their brand and produces results then no one should be able to say anything about them.

That's my take on the matter anyways. Sorry about the novel, I just started typing and all this happened to come out.

Cheers,

Sheldon, community manager for Sysomos

Nice post, Jay, and I agree with you that there are different levels of sophistication that are appropriate for different brands. There are small restaurants that may or may not be able to hire a "name brand" but can still benefit from getting help from a smaller consultant. And there are companies who will need an in-house expert AND the help of an agency or consultant, because their social media presence is so complex. In short, I too don't care for name calling as it hurts our profession as a whole and then no one wins.

Wow, this is such a mature attitude if ever I've seen one Jay ... "there is enough room in this business for everyone." True, some people are more knowledgeable than others in every business but should that be a justifiable barrier to entry. Everyone has to learn at something and in my view, the best way to learn is to either train or do it for someone else.

Hi Jay, I agree, but I do think it behooves anyone in social media to also look at getting a more well-rounded perspective on business so they can explain how it applies to business. It's fine and well if you're a social media enthusiast, but not so good if you can't help a business succeed with it.

Hey Jay, I totally agree. I tweeted about this last week noting how trendy it had become to beat up on social media "experts." Sad really. I mean "experts" are what people are looking for. Just from an SEO perspective, if you're in social media and you're not calling yourself an "expert" you won't be showing up in searches. Gary V and others are protesting too much, methinks. Just got done reading Gary's new book, it's a great book... had it been written in 2008.

Jay

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I have been following this conversation and see your points as valid however there is a very fine line where we see businesses hiring someone whether that be an agency, consultant or in house "expert" and spending their marketing budget and being taken. Sure, there is room for everyone and I am not a fan of name calling as it is so shallow. However, to that end, Gary has some points that we need to consider minus the name calling.

This conversation goes deeper than "I can do it better." You have captured the essence of this conversation here in your vid with discussing how social media is new and we are all still learning. To that end, we see miscues, we see where people are taking advantage of companies who are not as well versed in this medium as others are. Getting 5K twitter followers in 6 months without any direction in targeting them and identifying them as connectors, communicators, community building is a lot of what we are seeing. How can we say there is room for this? A company listens and trusts when they are hiring. Should they do a bit more of due diligence and ask around; well sure but who are they really going to ask of they do not have an online presence? Referrals of the business (really now?).

As someone who is committed bridging the gap in advertising and marketing to tie in social media, it infuriates me when I see companies taken. I want to rid the industry of this as yes there is room for all of us; us that are committed to the industry and not flying by the seat of their pants and not either caring or understanding how the tools are beneficial to each industry and how they can help to grow a business.

Thanks for keeping this discussion alive and bringing in a different POV.

I have to agree. There are still folks in the legal profession, from which I escaped/was chased, who believe (and are vocal about it) that there's no such thing as "social media best practices" -- or "social media experts." They maintain with a perfectly straight face that no such animal can possibly exist because it's not an established "field" yet -- that it's too new. Of course, they make these arrogant and nasty comments on social media sites. I've always wanted to ask how that logic actually flows in their minds, but I'm not about to engage mudslingers on their own level, and they've refused to step up to any other level, so I just ignore it and move on.

For a while now we "social media consultants" have been taking any and every job that comes our way. I believe that this is where a lot of the problems are coming from. I believe that we need to start distilling consultants into niches. Before doing what I do now, I spent 20+ years in the restaurant business. I know how it works. For this reason, I am trying to push my business towards a food service based social media consulting specialty. I have worked with a variety of businesses from a hair salon to managing the social presence in a political campaign. While both were successes, the learning curve on each was steep. There is so much to know for each individual type of business. There are the basics that translate across the board but each have component unique to themselves. I can see a very different need and job description for a political social media consultant than one for the food service industry.

I think you gained plenty of brownie points for this one Jay.

The people out there that need to name call and talk down to those who put out social media advice are those who are insecure about their own advice.

This playground-like attitude about name calling and putting people into groups (less knowledgeable and experts) seems a little elementary to me.

Hooray!! I agree 100%!! I have some terrific social media trainers @Gina Carr, @Dawn Gartin, @Gina Schrek, @Dawn Jensen to name a few and we collaborate instead of tear each other down! There's enough for everybody, and no one can possibly know it all on their own!

"Buyer beware" is not unique to the social media industry...any time you're going to pay someone to help you with business strategy of ANY kind, it behooves you to do your homework and ensure that they know what they're talking about. No one else can do your due diligence for you. Then, if someone is presenting credentials that they haven't earned, it will be apparent, and you can move on to someone else.

Well put Jay. Coming from the email marketing industry that is a few more years mature than social media, I would have to echo the sentiment felt by most of my colleagues. There is more than enough business to go around and you don't need to bash your competitors to prove your worth.

I'm with you Jay. There certainly is room for everyone. It's fun to remember we're all still learning, everyday. I really like how you're recognizing the fact that we all have different brain networks, based on experience and the way we process social media. Big deal.

The real problem with Gary's comment is not that he said it but that it is very close to true. Because it's true, it merits being said. Too many businesses think they can have instant pudding, and the only reason they believe this is because there is an entire industry selling instant pudding instead of doing what you are doing. You practice what you preach, as goes Gary, which makes you well qualified to give advice to others.

Hi Jay,

You have such a good heart :)

I watched both videos and it inspired me to write a post called "It's time for Social Media to grow up." Now, you might think that's me agreeing with the whole clown thing, but actually, the points you raise aren't really what concern me per se. I agree that if you see bad advice flowing it can drive you nuts, but that could (pragmatically) just be good news for you.

My concerns are about truly clownish behavior on Social Media sites that are preventing people from seeing the business value of the tool. Is offering bad advice clownish? No. Is getting into a fight on Twitter clownish? Yes. Is missing a few dots to connect in a marketing plan clownish? Not usually. Is perpetually checking into coffee shops and then saying how busy you are clownish? Yeah, to me it is.

I believe Social Media is at a point where it must come of age. It's in its very rocky teenage years, and unfortunately, a lot of the folks who are using Social Media also seem to be reliving their rocky teenage years. There is so much rumor generation, gossip, disrespectful behavior, plain and outright bad manners (and I'm talking just on a human level, not good online etiquette), and ridiculouslness that sometimes I am ashamed to be a part of this online world. People I don't think would ever act the way they do online if they were in a client's conference room. Whether you've ever run a business or not, you have been raised, most likely, on what decorum and respect is. Those traits seem to be lacking, and the uproar over what Gary said, and the fact that he said it, perhaps, are just more proof that we are going down a path that will not lead to better business. It will lead to mass drama, more trolls, and general unpleasantness.

We have a great opportunity to use this technology to help society and businesses grow. We also have a great opportunity to squander all of this and use Social Media to hurt people, even destroy people. I don't know that that would be clownish. It would be darned tragic though.