What Marketers Can Learn from the Evolution of Podcasts

Jay Baer - What Marketers Can Learn from the Evolution of Podcasts

Closing out the final episode of the Content Experience Show Podcast is Jay Baer, Founder of Convince & Convert, with a look at the evolution of podcasts.

In This Episode:

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Full Episode Details

Jay Baer - What Marketers Can Learn from the Evolution of Podcasts

An Expert’s Retrospective on the Evolution of Podcasts

It’s a bittersweet day for the Content Experience Show Podcast. After over 200 episodes, Randy and Anna are taking a hiatus. Helping close out this final episode is guest (and Convince & Convert Founder) Jay Baer with a look back at the show’s history and the evolution of podcasts as a medium.

Having been an engaged member of the podcast community since its early days, Jay has seen podcasting grow from a niche interest to a cultural movement. More and more businesses are beginning to accept podcasting as a valuable avenue of content creation. New trends are emerging every day, and smart marketers are keeping tabs on what podcast audiences expect from their programming.

In this special episode, you’ll get an expert’s take on the past and future of podcasting. You’ll hear Jay’s reflections on the show’s most memorable interviews, plus what Convince & Convert has done to grow an engaged fanbase for its podcasts. It’s a fitting farewell—and be sure to watch this space for the next evolution of the Content Experience Show!

In This Episode

  • Origin stories from the early days of Content Pros, the Content Experience Show’s predecessor.
  • Why podcasts have succeeded as a content form, according to Jay.
  • Stand-out guests and moments from the show’s history.
  • The four major trends emerging in podcasting right now.
  • Why the “TV season” approach to content creation is taking off at this point in the evolution of podcasts.
  • What’s next for Randy, Anna, and Jay, including details on upcoming Convince & Convert programming.

Quotes From This Episode

“Think of your podcast like a show. You’re competing for attention against actual celebrities and super high production value.” – @jaybaer

You can listen to a podcast while shoveling snow or doing any number of other things. You can't watch videos while shoveling snow. Click To Tweet

“Eighty-five-ish percent of the people who appear on Social Pros have a different job within 12 months of being on the show.” – @jaybaer

Resources

Content Experience Lightning Round

If you had a podcast that had nothing to do with your professional life, what would it be about?

Without question, Jay would want to host a podcast dedicated to reviewing tequila!

Thanks for listening!

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Episode Transcript

  • Anna

    Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Content Experience Show podcast. I am Anna Hrach, with Convince & Convert, and here with the always amazing Randy Frisch from Uberflip. And I got to say, it’s a little bit of a bittersweet day. So if you had heard some of our earlier episodes, the last part in the marketing specifically, we had kind of previewed that the Content Experience Show, in its current form, is going to take a bit of a nap for a bit. Randy, I don’t want to say it’s going away, because there are other things that we preview, but let’s say it’s taking a nap. It’s going to take a quick break.

  • Randy

    I think it’s evolving, right?

  • Anna

    It is evolving.

  • Randy

    That’s the way I like to think about it. I mean, I’m going to miss working with you, because you’re going to have your own podcast off on the side, having a great time.

  • Anna

    Hey, you’re going to have your own podcast on the side, having a great time. I’m going to miss working with you, too.

  • Randy

    It’s true. But you know, I really mean it’s an evolution. You think about this podcast itself, and you can go back and listen. As we’ve said, there’s over 200 episodes, now. I think 225, or so.

  • Anna

    244? Oh, I don’t now. We’re all over the place. Oh, no, 224. 224.

  • Randy

    224. That’s what I thought. So you know, when you think about that, if you go back to the first season, it was actually 12 episodes over about a year. So it was a monthly, right? And then it evolved. That’s when I got to join. We went to a weekly podcast. It was called Content Pros, back in the day. We spoke specifically to content marketers. And as contents become more mainstream, we said, “Okay.” Well, when we changed it to Content Experience a couple of years ago, it was this idea … Well, it’s not just content marketers who weigh in, it’s all marketers. And I think what I’m seeing out in the market, is that content can either be seen as extremely strategic, or not at all. And that often has to do with the lens of the senior marketer on that team. And that’s that next journey.

  • Randy

    So the way I see it is we’ve continued to see content become more successful in organizations when it’s done right. I can’t wait to talk to those senior marketeers who see that. And that’s something that all of our listeners are going to be able to take away with them, in terms of how they advance their career, or how they talk about content in their org.

  • Anna

    So really … Okay, I revise my earlier statement. It’s not that it’s taking a nap; it’s a Pokemon that’s evolving into its next form.

  • Randy

    You know what? Absolutely. I still have to see that Pokemon movie. But from the previews, I could not agree more.

  • Anna

    Right. It’s just … It’s the next iteration. It’s like going from … I can’t even … Charmander to Charizard. I probably got that totally wrong, and I’m going to get hate mail.

  • Randy

    If you had hit me with Transformers, I would’ve been like, “Right, of course. More than meets the eye. Robots in disguise.” Right?

  • Anna

    Oh, that’s another good one, too. Yeah, we’re like the little car right now. We’re going to transform into a big robot.

  • Randy

    So on this episode, just to give everyone a bit of a teaser of what they’re going to get, we invited Jay Baer, who invited me and you to come together on this podcast. How many episodes ago, now? I don’t even know that number.

  • Anna

    I don’t even know. I didn’t even look. I mean, I’ve been co-hosting with you for almost a year in a half, now.

  • Randy

    Almost.

  • Anna

    Over a year and a half.

  • Randy

    I was going to say close to two years.

  • Anna

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    So you know, we’ve had a great run together, and we’ve felt it was only right that the last episode of this version, we should have Jay on, just to talk about how podcasting has evolved over the years. And he’s been running Social Pros, which he talks about, which is now nearing 400 episodes. He’s got a whole bunch of other podcasts that take different forms, where you’ll hear just different perspectives. And I think it’ll get you excited about where podcasting has come from, and where it’s ultimately going. So with that in mind, should we hit the play button?

  • Anna

    Yeah, let’s bring him in.

  • Randy

    Here we go, with Jay Baer.

  • Randy

    Welcome to the Content Experience podcast. Jay, this is fun because you kicked this whole thing off. You gave me the opportunity to join this podcast, and many other cohosts who I’ve had, including Anna, who’s here with us, of course. Maybe talk to us about how you came up with this idea to have the Content Pros podcast, which is what it was originally called.

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    And Social Pros was obviously growing, in itself.

  • Jay

    Yeah. I mean, I wish I had some grand vision that came to me in a fevered dream at night with tequila. And certainly, you and I have enjoyed tequila, as recently as a few days ago at Conex, the Content Experience; the amazing event that you and your team put on in Toronto, and thank you for that. Those of you who were there can certainly also acknowledge how amazing it was.

  • Jay

    But as you said, the podcast that I host, and have for, geeze, eight years now, Social Pros, had been rolling for a little bit, and so I said, “Okay.” If you go back to when we started Social Pros, Eric Boggs, who used to run a company called Argyle Social, is the one that sort of got me involved in this show. And he literally just called me one day, we were friends, and had done some co-marketing, and said, “How about we start a podcast?” And I said, “Why would we do that?” And he said, “Because it will allow us to interview our future customers.” And I said, “Tell me more.” And so the whole idea was, well, if you want to be somebody’s social media strategist, or their content marketing strategist, or their content experience vendor; in your case, it’s easier to say, “Hey, man. We’ve got this great podcast. Would you like to be on the show?” As opposed to, “Hey, man. Would you like to buy some software from us?” Or, “Hey, man, could you pay us to do a strategy?”

  • Jay

    And Eric was exactly right. So we started Social Pros, and have always tried to have people on the show, at least most of the time, who are great social media practitioners for big companies, which, ironically, are the same kind of companies and in the same circumstances that we serve at Convince & Convert.

  • Jay

    And so once Social Pros had become at least modestly successful, we thought, “Well, what else do we do in this company?” And in addition to doing social media strategy, we do a lot of content marketing strategy for brands, as well. And so we thought, “What we need is a companion podcast. We need a spinoff.” I don’t know, whatever the million Game of Thrones spinoffs are going to be. Right? So Khaleesi on the Coast, or whatever. That’s what Content Pros-

  • Randy

    Right. Go Call Saul, or Call Saul.

  • Jay

    Yeah, the spinoff, right? And here we are, 225 episodes later, and the spinoff is a powerhouse. That’s mostly because of you, Randy and Anna, and your great work on the show.

  • Randy

    I thought you were going to tell me that that person who came to you in your dreams with tequila was Chris Moody, and that Chris was trying to get you to do a podcast where he could share some of his thoughts. He was one of the first cohosts that I got to have, and he was here even before me.

  • Jay

    Yes, Chris Moody was the originator of the microphone here, at what is now the Conex podcast. But the way it worked was, when we started this show, our company was a lot smaller, as well. And we’re like, “We don’t want to necessarily pay the freight on this thing so low,” so we actually pre-sold the show to Oracle, where Chris was working at the time. We said, “We’re going to start a show. It’s going to be called Content Pros. Here’s what it’s going to feature. And by the way, we want to have one of your people, i.e. Chris, on the microphone.” And so we actually had the sponsorship figured out before we recorded an episode, which certainly reduces your risk. So that’s how Chris got on the show from the beginning.

  • Randy

    Gotcha. So when you go back to when Social Pros was on the rise, and then coming up with Content Pros … I mean, not to say podcasts hadn’t taken off at that point, there was … I’m pretty sure season one of Serial already existed, as an example. But that’s kind of that benchmark. It’s like BC or not. Right? Before Serial, BS. But what have you seen, in terms of that shift in podcasting, as a strategy? Not just at Convince & Convert, but with a lot of the companies that you chat with on a day-to-day. I mean, what percentage of them have started a podcast, or at least talking about it?

  • Jay

    I mean, it’s … Let me say it this way: I always believed it would work. Because my only thing I ever kind of thought that might be considered smart in the podcasting area is, look, people are going to be besieged by content eventually. And content experience is going to become the most important thing. To me, that’s where podcasting really shines, is that it is the only multitask-able content experience. Right? You can listen to a podcast while running. You can listen to a podcast while commuting. You can listen to a podcast while shoveling snow or doing any number of other things. You can’t watch videos while shoveling snow. At least, you shouldn’t try that. You can’t read blog posts while you’re commuting. At least, until we get driverless cars.

  • Jay

    And so the only thing I really discovered early was, look, if everybody keeps getting busier and busier, and we all keep creating more and more content, at some point, the efficient content mechanism is going to start to succeed. And that is podcasts, in my estimation. And that has proven to be true. The number of people listening to podcasts continues to escalate. The number of people who listen to podcasts in a B2B setting continues to go up. And what we see now, at Convince & Convert … I don’t know, Anna, what percentage of clients do you think ask us about podcasts, now?

  • Anna

    Oh, you know I feel like we get a ton of questions about it, but the logistics are not quite complicated, but there’s a lot of kind of behind the scenes sort of coordination that has to happen. I don’t know, Jay, are you seeing the same thing?

  • Jay

    Yeah, I would say … And we’ve produced a few shows for clients, here at Convince & Convert, which is fun. What I always tell people is look, it’s not hard, but it’s complicated. Right? There’s a lot of moving parts in the back. And also, I will say this: In research and in some thought leadership from Tom Webster at Edison, has kind of struck this chord, as well, recently; that there’s now, according to whose estimates you believe, somewhere in the neighborhood of 750,000 active podcasts. Right? That’s a lot of shows.

  • Anna

    Wow.

  • Jay

    By any measure, that’s a lot of shows. You think there’s a lot of stuff on Netflix, right? There’s a lot of stuff on … A lot of podcasts, right? So when there was, say, 50,000 podcasts when I started, or whatever, the level that your show had to be at to succeed was different. Now, it really is a show. Right? And you have to think of it like a show, and you’re competing for attention against actual celebrities and super high production value, and all those kind of things.

  • Jay

    And so I think yes, the mechanics of creating a podcast can be a little daunting, although I think unnecessarily so, frankly, in most cases. But the level that you have to take it to to succeed, the level that you guys are at, is not always easy for everybody to get to. And so I think they feel like, “Oh, we can’t do it that well so let’s not bother.” Or, in a corporate environment, I’m sure you’ve seen this, Randy; sometimes we see companies want to start a podcast, especially in B2B, and they’re like, “Well, we want to have a show, and the person who needs to host it is the VP Product Development, because they’re the VP of Product Development.” And I’m like, “Hey, man. The fact that you’re a VP of Product Development and a podcast host is … There’s no correlation, there.” Those are not the same job, right?

  • Jay

    And so it doesn’t have … It’s not part of your LinkedIn profile. Like, “Because I’m a Vice President, now I’m on air at … ” You know? It doesn’t mean the same thing. There are people who are great at analytics, who are bad at karaoke. Right? It’s the same kind of thing.

  • Randy

    You know, it’s interesting. I think one of the things, talking about what makes a great host of a podcast, is the ability just to have a very natural conversation, and to get people to talk about things that they wouldn’t otherwise. I’ve been … I may have mentioned this on a recent podcast, Anna, but I’ve been listening to Conan’s podcast lately.

  • Anna

    Yeah, we talked about that on our last Pardon the Marketing.

  • Randy

    Yeah. Which, it’s such a good podcast, because first off, he’s a celebrity, gets these great celebrities. But it’s the level of depth that these conversations go to. I mean, some of them are an hour and a half long. But they’re getting way deeper than you’d usually get to. And I can say, having had the opportunity to have many cohosts over the last four plus years, I think, we’ve been doing this, that a big part of it is the people who are asking those questions. The guest is important, but the ability to get that guest to be comfortable, because some of the best guests, they’re doing five to ten podcasts a week. So how do you get them to come onto your show, no different than Conan would on a late night, and make Will Ferrell funnier than any of the other shows that he may have been on that week on his tour.

  • Anna

    Yeah, I think … Randy, just to echo that, I think one of the things that surprised me the most, jumping from the guest side to the host side and actually interacting and getting guests on, is how many are really nervous and are like, “Well, what are we going to talk about? And how are we going to talk about this?” And they’re really scared about coming on and kind of, I guess, sounding like a fool. But none of them do. They always are great. We would never set them up to fail, but I’m always shocked at the level of nervousness from our guests, sometimes.

  • Randy

    Well, there was that one that we never aired, but yes. There was!

  • Anna

    That shall remain nameless.

  • Jay

    Yeah, and sometimes the guest’s legal department, as well. I get some of that on our show, as well.

  • Anna

    Yes.

  • Jay

    Where it’s like, “Can our PR team sit in on the interview?” You know? Whatever. Some companies are a little bit more cautious about allowing team members to speak in public, whether it’s a podcast or a press release, or anything else. And that’s their prerogative.

  • Anna

    So curious, Jay, since you have interviewed so many people over the years; obviously starting this iteration of Content Pros and moving into Content Experience, and obviously Social Pros, what are some of those really memorable guests that you’ve had? What are the ones that stand out? Or even the qualities of a guest that really stand out in your mind?

  • Jay

    I mean, we’ve had a lot of really terrific conversations. I’ve done two or three shows with Gary Vaynerchuk, which is probably an obvious answer, but he always says something really interesting and somewhat controversial, which creates a lot of conversational opportunities. We had Seth Godin on the show this year. That was really great, when his new book came out. And really, a whole list of other folks over the years.

  • Jay

    But I think the interviews that I like the best … And you talked about this a second ago, Anna, is when you get somebody who works at a company who, in my case, is a social media manager; in your case, might be a content marketing manager, demand gen manager, et cetera, who doesn’t really make the podcast rounds so often. Right? They don’t have a tremendous amount of experience as a guest. And when that person just knocks it out of the park, right? And just talks about their work and their history and their campaigns and their circumstances with a great deal of passion and clarity and insight, and frankly, inspiration, those are the shows that I like the best. Where my cohost, Adam Brown from SalesForce and I just sort of turn off the recording like, “Holy cow, where did that come from?” You know? You just get somebody that you don’t, before you start having the conversation, don’t really expect it’s going to be that amazing. And you’re like, “Wow. That was really something.” Those are the shows that I like the best.

  • Jay

    And the other thing that’s sort of the weird … The kind of weird meme on our show is that … I haven’t done the exact numbers on it, but it’s somewhere around 85%-ish of the people who appear on Social Pros have a different job within 12 months of being on the show. So they all either move to another company, typically, is what happens. And so we’ve decided that it’s sort of the thing you put in your LinkedIn profile, and then you get promoted to some other social media job somewhere else, because it’s hilarious. We had one … This was memorable for a weird reason. We had a guest, who actually is a client of ours, Anna, a couple of months ago. And the day his episode aired, he changed jobs.

  • Anna

    Wow.

  • Jay

    So we get a call from him and his communications team like, “Hey, we got to change all the graphics and everything else.” And yeah, it was a little bit of a sticky wicked thing.

  • Anna

    I feel like you should start handing out certifications, like, “I am now Social Pros certified, so I can go to the next level.”

  • Jay

    Well, we-

  • Randy

    Yeah. More so, I was going to say, you should announce on this podcast that Convince & Convert is starting a recruiting agency.

  • Jay

    No kidding. No kidding.

  • Randy

    Getting 20%-

  • Jay

    It’s so common, that when it doesn’t happen, we’re actually shocked. So we had Greg Hounslow, who’s the head of … Actually, I guess his title is Emerging Media Head at WestJet. And obviously a brand that Randy knows well, in Toronto, and Canada at large. They’re in Calgary, but … So Greg was on the show six years ago. Right? Episode 107, right? And that was back on episode, I don’t know, 360 or something like that. And we’re like, “Bro, you’ve got the same job?” We literally couldn’t believe it. It was like, “How is this possible,” right? This is unprecedented. Tell us what’s happened in the last six years. It was pretty crazy.

  • Jay

    And I’ll tell you what, I mean, you think about that six years … I went back, just on a lark, over the summer, and listened to a couple of episodes from way back. Right? From 2012, 2013. And I had a couple of conversations, and I think the same is true of this show. A, I was really bad, as a podcast host in those days. And B, the number of topics we had to talk about in social media was so much narrower. Instagram didn’t exist, much less all of the other stuff. And the same thing’s true in content, right? Now, we’ve got all these other topics. I mean, ABM didn’t even exist then, and not to mention the whole idea of “content experience,” as a book title, as a show title, as a conference title. None of that was really there.

  • Jay

    And so it reminded me that the more things stay the same, the more they’ve actually changed.

  • Randy

    That’s wild. All right, what we’re going to do here … We’re talking about what’s changing next with Jay Bear. We are going to come back and talk about what’s changing for podcasting beyond this podcast, as we wrap up the Con Ex podcast series on this season, and we will be right back after a quick message from our sponsors.

  • Jay

    Hi, friends. This is Jay Baer from Convince & Convert, reminding you that this show, the Con Ex Show podcast is brought to you by Uberflip, the number one content experience platform.

  • Jay

    Do you ever wonder how content experience affects your marketing results? Well, you can find out in the first ever content experience report, where Uberflip uncovers eight data science backed insights to boost your content engagement and your conversions. It’s a killer report, and you do not want to miss it. Get your free copy right now at uberflip.com/conexshowreport. That’s uberflip.com/conexshowreport.

  • Jay

    And the show is also brought to you by our tea at Convince & Convert Consulting. If you’ve got a terrific content marketing program but you want to take it to the very next level, we can help. Convince & Convert works with the world’s most iconic brands to increase the effectiveness of their content marketing, social media marketing, digital marketing, and word of mouth marketing. Find us at convinceandconvert.com.

  • Anna

    Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Content Experience Show podcast. We are, of course, talking to Jay Baer. Now, Jay, before we broke for a sponsor break, you were talking about-

  • Randy

    Thank you, sponsors.

  • Anna

    Yes, thank you, sponsors. You were talking about kind of going back and listening to some of those really old episodes of Social Pros and all of the crazy first iterations of it. And we had also kind of touched on sort of how things have changed over time. So just curious, what are you seeing today with podcasting, and how things have changed, and where is it going?

  • Jay

    I think there’s a few different trends I’d look at. One, Randy touched on it in the first segment: This idea of very unstructured, very long conversational episodes. Right? We’re like, “We’re just going to wrap and we’re going to wrap until we’re tired.” And that could be 90 minutes, or it could be two hours, or however long it is. There’s more and more of those shows. Now, most of them, not all, but many of them are celebrity-led, and I guess that allows them, because they’re more charismatic or what have you, to hold an audience for that long. But you’re seeing more of those shows. I think it’s an interesting trend.

  • Jay

    You’re seeing more shows with sort of higher production value in general. Right? So for example, shows that actually record a bunch of material and then stitch it together thematically. Probably a good analog there would be This American Life, right? Where each show is about a thing, and they pull audio from a bunch of different recordings, and then say, “This show was about disappointment,” or what have you. You’re starting to see more podcasts like that.

  • Jay

    Third trend would be more podcasts that are doing both audio and video, whether that’s full-length video or using some of the video to promote the show, whether it’s LinkedIn or YouTube or Facebook video or even Instagram video.

  • Jay

    And then the fourth thing is one that I recently got involved in with my other podcast, which is called the Talk Triggers Show, is this idea of planned, sort of seasoned distribution. Right? So I did 20 episodes, had always planned 20 episodes. Did 20, and out. And that was it. Done, done. 20 weeks, and we’re on to the next thing. And so instead of having a show that runs indefinitely, saying, “All right, we’re going to do a season, and then we’re going to take a brief step back and say, ‘Do we want to do it the same next season, or do we want to do it differently?’ And if we want to do it differently, how so, and what does the audience tell us?” Et cetera. And so I think that’s an interesting trend. It takes podcasts more into the realm of television, right? Where you do 13 episodes or 22 episodes in the old network model. Now, in streaming, sometimes it’s as few as six or eight episodes, ten. And then you say, “Okay, we’ve done those. Now, let’s think about … Let’s write some new material,” or, “We don’t like that person, kill off that cast member,” what have you. We’re going to see the same thing, I think, in podcasts, and kind of give the audience a little bit of a break, as well.

  • Jay

    So that’s a trend, and I think it’s something that you guys are working on, as well.

  • Randy

    Absolutely. No, it’s kind of like that mini-series. And we crave knowing when it’s coming back, whether it’s Silicon Valley or Stranger Things. I’m so depressed right now that Stranger Things is over. I’m trying to find something to keep me going.

  • Anna

    Is it over, over? I thought they were doing some spinoffs.

  • Randy

    Well, I mean it’s temporarily over. There’s-

  • Anna

    Oh.

  • Randy

    I think they’re coming back for more, but that show just … I love it. But I got to say, though, I don’t know about you, Anna, but I was a little disappointed that Jay didn’t talk about the format with the two-minute buzzer, where that’s on the rise, and for those who have listened to some of our podcasts, Pardon the Marketing, I think what we were missing on that was the high-tech buzzer.

  • Jay

    That’s it.

  • Randy

    Had we got the high-tech buzzer, this podcast …

  • Jay

    That would be trend number five, for sure.

  • Randy

    Absolutely. Because that’s that next level of production value that everyone’s talking about right now.

  • Anna

    I don’t know, I think it just made it even more real and authentic and genuine.

  • Randy

    The fact that I ultimately realized I don’t know how a timer works on my iPhone. But it’s okay. We figured it out. The problem was-

  • Jay

    Is your show going to be called The Timer Experience? It’s going to be incredible. Counting down to something.

  • Anna

    Randy testing different timers?

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    The conflict that we had was, I had to put my phone on do not disturb so that we wouldn’t be interrupted; yet we needed the buzzer to go.

  • Jay

    Interrupted.

  • Randy

    Exactly. Hence, Pardon the Interruption. So let’s talk about what’s next. Anna and I have really hit it off, and I think that’s been one of your skills, Jay, over the years; is finding someone new to put up with me for an extended amount of time, week after week. You nailed it, for sure, this time. Anna, what’s your plan, next, from a podcasting perspective? And how C&C is thinking about their go-to-market, and how you’ll create that next iteration, or next season, as you put it, to track the right audience for you?

  • Anna

    Good question. So that is still definitely in progress and in planning. So not too, too much to reveal. But definitely looking at something content-focused. Still sticking with our content experience theme, a little bit, here. And also looking at maybe mixing up the format a little bit. So who knows, maybe some video, maybe continuing with audio. I definitely want to get some different categories in there. Maybe a little bit of auditing, little content auditing, little bit of content case studies. Maybe a content variety show. That’s kind of what I’m envisioning right now, but we will see.

  • Randy

    Wow, feels very Stranger Things, season four. It’s like we know it’s coming-

  • Jay

    Yeah, there’s going to be a magician, or-

  • Randy

    But we don’t know what, yet. We know-

  • Anna

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    We know there will be a flip side, or whatever they call it.

  • Anna

    I was actually going to call it Stranger Content Things, Season Four, but then the cease and desist came, and it just was bad news.

  • Randy

    Absolutely. I-

  • Jay

    And they stole the thunder.

  • Anna

    They did, yeah. They took it away. But Randy, what about you? Obviously I know you guys got big things in the works, there. And you always have lots of things to say on content and content experience. What’s next with you?

  • Randy

    Well, it’s interesting going back to Jay’s point, when he described starting Social Pros and that opportunity to jump on a podcast and simply speak to a senior marketer who is leading some of the strategy that Convince & Convert helps solve for a lot of organizations. A lot of the same motivation is what’s fueling our next podcast here, the continuing of this podcast, which will be known as the Marketer’s Journey. And what we mean by the marketer’s journey is actually two sides, or two parts of every podcast. The one is speaking to senior marketers and learning from them about their career journey. How did they get to that VP title, that C-level title? What’s that biggest bird course they maybe took in university that maybe helped them in the end, to why did they take that major, and how are they actually here?

  • Randy

    And on the flip side, it’s understanding how they think of the journey of their audience. And I think that understanding of their career, and all the different turns it takes along the way is no different than the way our audience is engaged with us today. It’s not as linear as we’d hope, so we hope to learn from some of these marketers, of how they’ve seen the need to adapt over the years, and how they think of a buyer journey today. And I’m just excited to be speaking to some of these people who, fortunately I already get to talk to. I just don’t do it on air. And sometimes I’ll hang up, as Jay said, and just say like, “Wow, that was a really great conversation, I wish I recorded that.” So having some of those real conversations with marketers.

  • Anna

    I love it. I think there’s going to be so many different interesting stories, out there, too. I mean, I don’t know if anybody sets out to be in content. I mean, maybe they do now, that it’s an actual thing. But I think there’s definitely that era, or … I mean, even just a few years ago, people graduating with just general marketing or general advertising degrees or public relations, and then they just kind of fall into content. So that’s a really fascinating podcast. I will definitely subscribe.

  • Randy

    Thank you, thank you. The logo is almost done, so I’m pretty excited about that.

  • Anna

    Nice. It’s like-

  • Jay

    We should be letting listeners vote on the logo. We should be directing them to a landing page.

  • Randy

    We should. And I should be able to spin up a landing page in no time. But-

  • Jay

    Yeah, you have the technology that could do. If only you had a software company that allowed you to create a landing page.

  • Randy

    Exactly! Check the show notes. Check the show notes.

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    That’s what we always say, here.

  • Jay

    Exactly. You’ll figure it out eventually. I’m probably going to do another season of the Talk Triggers show, or some kind of customer experience podcast, which is fun for me. I like those kind of themes, these days. And obviously keeping on rolling with Social Pros, at least until the end of this season, which’ll be the end of the calendar year, 2019. And then we also kind of take it one year at a time. We’re like the Tom Brady of podcasts. Right? We’re like, “Okay, we’ll sign a one-year contract,” so we’ll see what happens. So that’s cool.

  • Jay

    And yeah, like Anna said, we’ve got some other stuff kicking around at Convince & Convert, and kind of playing with formats and all those kind of things. So yeah, we’ll see. I like the idea of being more experimental on shows for a couple reasons. I think you can dive in, play with it, and then get out, and leave the audience wanting more. Then also, as strategists, as a strategy consulting firm, I think it behooves us to experiment with format and style and tone, and frankly, distribution. Right? So is the show on LinkedIn, as as how, as opposed to on a podcast, per se? Right? Is one option. Because then it allows us to learn some lessons that we can then apply for clients, as well.

  • Randy

    Go ahead, Anna.

  • Anna

    Oh, no. I was just going to say I’m a big fan, and I’m not even being paid to say this, that Talk Triggers is coming back, because I love hearing all of those crazy stories. My favorite is Dr. Snip, hands down.

  • Jay

    Dr. Snip?

  • Anna

    I love hearing just the crazy stories-

  • Jay

    Dr. Snip, vasectomy surgeon.

  • Anna

    Who gave out Swiss Army knives, right?

  • Jay

    Pocket knives. Engraved pocket knives, yep.

  • Randy

    Oh, I missed that episode.

  • Jay

    It’s a good one.

  • Randy

    That’s very on-brand.

  • Jay

    Yes. Very on-brand. Good talk trigger.

  • Randy

    Just curious. Both of you hit, in different ways, on the value of video. And that future where podcasts, yes, the beauty of it is we can multitask, ask you said, Jay. But the value of video, I think, is just going to continue to rise. And all the channels we’re on, that’s what captures our attention first, those moving frames.

  • Randy

    How have you seen video conducted well when it comes to podcasts? Because a lot of people I speak to, where they struggle with, is for those who just listen to this podcast, we’re actually using video now. We just don’t actually use the video as such, because Zoom only records the one speaking, not all of us kind of in the video that we all log in can see. So how have you managed to maybe execute video well?

  • Jay

    Yeah, we’ve actually tested it a ton, for multiple shows. So for the Talk Triggers show, the Talk Triggers’ 20-episode series, which is still … You can get it at talktriggersshow.com … was six-minute episodes, once a week for 20 weeks, and it was native video. So it was YouTube first. And then we stripped out the audio and made it a podcast. Right? Because there was dropping graphics and whites and different things that would go up on the screen.

  • Jay

    Now, when I wrote the episodes, and I did script it all. It wasn’t off the cuff; it was all scripted. And so when I scripted it, I tried to make sure that I wasn’t showing something, that if you couldn’t see it, it wouldn’t make the episode work. And a couple of examples, I maybe didn’t do that very well, but in general, tried to make it so that if you watch it, it’s a little better, but you can still listen to it and get it.

  • Jay

    On the Social Pros podcast, we’ve actually done a ton of different things with video, because you’re exactly right, Randy, it … We, at one point, would use Zoom and record the whole show on video, and then turn that into a YouTube broadcast, right? So it’s like a 45-minute YouTube video of three people talking. That’s not a great video. Right? So doing that, procedurally is not a big deal. You got to clean it up a little bit, but it’s not very compelling, right? It’s not a very compelling watch. And so we didn’t get a lot of traction on that.

  • Jay

    So now what we do, is we have our post-production team take the video and then cut it up into a five-minute highlight reel. So they pull out the best statements, the excerpts from whomever is on the show, and they stitch that together in a greatest hits, and then we use that on YouTube. So the YouTube is like a five-minute highlight reel. Then we take a series of 45-second, minute and a half clips, and we use those as promotional assets. Right? So on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram, on Twitter, et cetera, just sort of drive awareness and downloads of that particular episode.

  • Randy

    Gotcha, so-

  • Anna

    I love that approach.

  • Randy

    Yeah, so using a lot more parts of the asset, which is essentially what we’ve always talked about with content, is how do you slice that turkey into many different pieces, or how do you take that big rock type of mindset, and have the path leading into it.

  • Jay

    Yeah, I mean it works great. It just does require a fair amount of post-production time and investment. And you’ve got to have some people doing that who are actually fairly good at that kind of work, which ain’t everybody.

  • Randy

    Gotcha. Well, so there’s a lot on the horizon. I mean, we’ve got the suspense of what Stranger Content, Season Four might look like, from Anna. We’ve got … What’s your next milestone, Jay, and in terms of Social Pros, as it continues? I mean, what’s that next episode number that you’re really excited about?

  • Jay

    Yeah, we’ll be … Let’s see, we’ll be at episode 400 before the end of … Right around December. Somewhere in December.

  • Randy

    Wow.

  • Jay

    So I’m sure we’ll do some kind of big celebration for that. Episode 300, which was, oh my god, was like two years-

  • Randy

    I was going to say, I felt like that was just last …

  • Anna

    Yeah!

  • Jay

    Two years ago.

  • Anna

    I was going to say.

  • Jay

    Two years.

  • Anna

    Was it really?

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Anna

    I feel like that was … Whoa.

  • Randy

    We were all on Facebook live, if I remember.

  • Anna

    Yeah.

  • Jay

    Yeah, we took some of our … Yeah, you guys were there. And then we took some of our favorite guests from the past and invited them back on the show, and did it on a Facebook live and kind of had a little reunion show. That was super fun. We might do that again. We may give away 400 cakes. I don’t know. We’ll figure something out. We’ll figure something out, probably at the last minute, but that’s okay. I need to get Adam to give away 400 tickets to Dreamforce. That’s probably unlikely, but that’d be a good one. So yeah, that’s a big milestone, man. 400 episodes is no joke. So that’s the next big thing for Social Pros.

  • Jay

    And then all the other stuff we’re working on. We’re starting again at episode one, which is always super exciting, but also terrifying.

  • Randy

    That’s exciting, for sure. And for everyone who’s been tuning in, don’t leave this subscription. Don’t leave this channel. This podcast will continue, granted new name being the Marketer’s Journey, but continued great guests and great conversations along the way.

  • Randy

    Jay, if you’ve got a couple of minutes, we always finish our podcast here, getting to know our guests a little bit more. I feel like we just did that for almost 30 minutes with you, but we’ve got a fun one saved, in this case.

  • Jay

    Oh.

  • Randy

    Right back here on the Con Ex podcast.

  • Anna

    Hey, everyone. I wanted to take just a few seconds today to talk to you about Emma. Emma is an email marketing platform that helps you connect with your audience and grow lasting relationships. They’re awesome. They offer really intuitive tools to build and automate emails with powerful segmentation and reporting, too. And the big difference is they’re focused on you. Between their award-winning support and their pro services team, they make sure every customer has success with their email marketing. Seriously, they are amazing.

  • Anna

    You can learn more and request a demo today at myemma.com/jayisawesome. Again, that’s myemma.com/jayisawesome.

  • Randy

    All right, Jay. We have got to know you a bunch over this podcast. You know, we talked a lot about podcast strategy, but we generally talk about work when we talk about podcasts, right? It’s not different than when someone comes in to interview for a role with me and I tell them, “Tell me about yourself,” and they just go into their resume. Right? They don’t tell anything about their personal life. You know? Their self is their work. I know with you, you’ve got a lot of side passions. I feel like I know where you’re going with this, but for those who don’t know you as well, if you were doing a podcast that had nothing to do with work; purely a passion, a hobby, a side interest, what would the topic be, and who would be your first guest?

  • Jay

    Well, let me ask you a question first, just out of curiosity. What’s your favorite podcast that you listen to that’s not business?

  • Anna

    Oh.

  • Randy

    Man, that’s hard. Because I wouldn’t say that I’m a … Anna and I talked about this when we did the Pardon the Marketing, and we talked about podcasts.

  • Anna

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    And I said I’m not a podcast loyalist.

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    I jump around a lot. I like suggestions. So right now, I talked about loving Conan. There was a time when I was obsessed with that one season of Serial.

  • Jay

    Oh, yeah.

  • Randy

    There’s a lot of other podcasts I’ll listen from time to time.

  • Jay

    Dabbler.

  • Randy

    Like from the space I’m in. So I like to jump around. But I generally do go work, other than that Conan one that I’ve mentioned.

  • Jay

    Yeah. Anna, how about you?

  • Anna

    My Favorite Murder.

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Anna

    Which makes me sound like a psycho, when you just blurt it out like that.

  • Jay

    Kind of. I know better, but yeah.

  • Anna

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it’s, hands down, one of my favorites.

  • Jay

    Yeah, that’s also my daughter’s favorite. Two for me. I listen to High Noon every day, which is an ESPN show, with Pablo Torre and Bomani Jones. So I listen to that one every day. And then I also listen to, every week, a show called Good One, which is … The host interviews a standup comedian, and it’s an hour long conversation about one joke. And so they play the joke at the beginning of the show, and then they do a deep dive conversation. How did you write the joke? Why is it put in this place in your set? How do you structure it? Why this word versus that word? How has the joke evolved since you first wrote it? And as somebody who does a lot of public speaking and MC work, I find it fascinating, and I really, really like that whole premise.

  • Jay

    So, to your question, Randy, what would I do a show about? I would 100%, positively do a tequila review show.

  • Randy

    Knew it.

  • Jay

    And there would not be a guest. It would just be me on camera, drinking tequila, saying, “This tequila’s good,” or, “This tequila is crap.” Or, maybe … Oh, what do you think about this? What if I did a tequila review show and then paired it with a business book. Okay? So with this tequila, you should read this business book. And with this tequila, you should read this business book, and sort of combine those two things.

  • Anna

    But I think as the show goes, you should get progressively more drunk, and so should your review. Just get more and more belligerent. As the-

  • Jay

    I have fully thought … I have seen Anna drunk on more than one occasion, and I feel like Drunk Marketing is definitely a podcast.

  • Anna

    Yes.

  • Jay

    Right? That could … Drunk Content? Right? And so we just have a few glasses of wine, or what have you, and then we talk about content marketing, and that’s the show.

  • Randy

    Well, I’ve had a series that we’ve not gotten off the ground, here. And I’m okay if someone steals this. I’ll throw it out; which is, Jerry Seinfeld’s Coffee With Comedians.

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    I wanted to do Content and Cocktails.

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    Which I just think, two marketers sitting at a bar, each one orders their go-to drink. While the bartender makes the two drinks, they have a conversation. Drink comes-

  • Jay

    Oh, great.

  • Randy

    Five to ten minute show, max.

  • Jay

    Yeah. I mean, the challenge … I mean, I think it’d be great. The challenge with those kind of formats is everybody’s got to be in the same place.

  • Randy

    I know, I know.

  • Jay

    You know? That’s the … I mean, I guess you could monitor who’s coming through Toronto and do it then.

  • Randy

    Yeah. We should’ve recorded these all during-

  • Jay

    At Con Ex.

  • Randy

    Last-

  • Jay

    Yeah.

  • Randy

    Yeah.

  • Jay

    Should’ve done it at the conference, yeah.

  • Randy

    A lot of sense.

  • Jay

    Yeah, and a lot of cocktails. I love that. Yeah. We’re on guest 14. Randy’s on his 14th Mai Tai.

  • Randy

    Our MCing duties would’ve been even more entertaining. Not that they weren’t great, but you know, we would’ve really nailed it that way.

  • Jay

    All right, now we know. For 2020, we’ve got a whole new thing.

  • Randy

    All right, well listen. When that tequila podcast comes out, I will religiously, loyally subscribe to that one, as much as I told you I don’t …

  • Jay

    Thank you.

  • Randy

    That’ll be on my list. I’ll get push notifications and everything for it. Jay, this has been great. I can thank you enough for even just reaching out to me, 200 plus episodes ago, to say that you’re looking for someone to help keep this show going, and we’ve done that well. We’re onto the next chapter with the Marketer’s Journey, and I can’t wait to be part of that, and definitely have you back at some point to talk about your journey.

  • Jay

    Yeah, I would love to do that. Thanks very much. Congratulations on the new show. We’re super pumped. It’s going to be amazing. Yeah, folks, don’t remove the feed from your podcast listening app. It’s going to be remarkable, and keep you up to date on what Anna and I are doing next, too.

  • Randy

    Sounds great. Until next time, this has been the Content Experience podcast. Check it out on Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play; wherever you get your podcasts. We’ve got over 200 episodes of great content. Have a listen back, as Jay said. How did we sound 200 episodes of go versus where we are today.

  • Randy

    Until next time, I’m Randy Frisch with Anna Hrach, and this has been the Con Ex podcast.

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