Why Terminus Measures Content Success Through Collaboration

Sangram Vajre, Co-Founder and CMO of Terminus, joins the Content Pros Podcast to discuss how a focus on engagement paired with collaboration between sales and marketing can drive business forward.

In This Episode:


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Full Episode Details

Live Together. Die Alone.

Sales and marketing go together like peanut butter and jelly. Almost always sharing a corner of the business, it’s not unusual to see them lumped together in reports, line items, and department listings.

In spite of this, many sales and marketing teams work independently of each other. Marketing drums up leads and hands them off to sales to chase. Sometimes marketing provides sales with collateral but there tends to be an “us and them” mentality between the two.

Sangram has found that the most effective sales and marketing teams work as a collective. Meeting frequently to review leads and content together, they craft a marketing strategy that feeds warm leads to a sales team that is fully informed has bought in on the message being shared to prospective customers.

This collaboration setup stresses the importance of thinking about sales and marketing efficiency and effectiveness as a collective. By working closely together, these two departments can have a huge impact on the success of any business.

In This Episode

  • Why successful content marketing means more than lead generation
  • How accurately measuring engagement leads to a more efficient sales team
  • How a close and cooperative relationship between sales and marketing leads to better results for both teams
  • Why a lack of synchronization means an opportunity to become a leader from within

Quotes From This Episode

“All marketers at some point have fallen into the trap of spending more time than it deserves to prove that what they do works.” —@sangramvajre

Our role is to really focus on driving the business forward. Click To Tweet

“At the end of the day, the board and the executive team are looking at sales and marketing efficiency as a single metric that drives the health of the business.” —@sangramvajre

Engagement is the new form fill. Click To Tweet

“If I have to spend time proving something, I’d rather prove that the accounts that matter to us the most are engaging with us.” —@sangramvajre

Activity-centric measurement is not giving a whole lot of insight. Click To Tweet

“The way we’re going to know what we create is valuable is not by the number of clicks and downloads, but by seeing how much time people are spending watching them or reading them.” —@sangramvajre

Sales and marketing together should own the account selection.” —@sangramvajre

“Every person owes it to themselves and to the organization they belong to, to lead when nobody’s in charge.” —@sangramvajre


Content Pros Lightning Round

What is the most annoying way that people pronounce Pardot? We were acquired by Salesforce, and we’re at Dreamforce thinking that, now, Salesforce is going to say our name in front of hundreds of thousands of people, and somebody pronounced it as Pardo.

What is your favorite Arnold Schwarzenegger movie? Commando.

Who is your favorite superhero? If you could be a super hero, who would it be? Captain America. I feel it’s kind of old school, getting your hands dirty, doing the things, and it’s been there forever.

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Episode Transcript

Randy: Welcome to another episode of Content Pros podcast. I'm Randy Frisch from Uberflip and as always I've got Tyler Lessard joining me from Vidyard, and on behalf of Convince & Convert, we have a great guest today, who's really leading the charge in ABM. If you don't know about ABM it's all about account-based marketing, and they've kind of coined the term, flipping the funnel, which has been a great campaign on its own. I know both of you and I, Tyler had a lot of fun following this one.
Tyler: Yeah, it's Sangram Vajre who we have here with us today, CMO at Terminus. I think he actually comes from a really interesting background, and I love this story. Maybe we can peel it back a little bit, Sangram, but going back a few years, you ran marketing at Pardot, which was then acquired by Salesforce, and brought into that organization as a marketing automation platform, which was largely centered around inbound marketing and email marketing. I thought it super interesting that from there, you went off and took on this challenge at Terminus to develop this new category of account-based marketing, where it's, to me, a different mindset, and it's much more about how we go out and engage, the key accounts we want to attract, instead of relying on volumes and quantity of inbound leads. Maybe I'll turn it over to you to quickly introduce yourself and give your perspective on that journey.
Sangram: Sure guys, and thank you so much for having me. As Tyler and Randy said, I am the Co-Founder and CMO at Terminus. Before this, when I was at Pardot, running marketing, I think one of the challenges I faced that I feel like every single marketing organization faces, but maybe they don't vocalize it as much, was the whole idea around attribution, like, hey, how do I get credit for my work, and that word, that phrase really was like annoying me a lot, like candidly I went ahead and hired, I think four or five interns to come in, and say, you know guys, your job is to, all you really do all day long is to prove that marketing is doing their job. That was really bad right. If you think about it is that you're really trying to watch your back almost, and show that you are important as opposed to focusing on the most important thing, which is driving the business. I think all marketers at some point or not have fallen into this trap of like just showing attributions and spending more time than it deserves to prove that what they do works. So for me at Pardot, it wasn't about Pardot, it was just about where marketing was stuck. In general, they were all about leads. We are all about leads, and that really led me to think that there got to be a better way. So thinking kind of fast forwarding it, I was at a conference that Scott Brinker at Martec. It was him, and then Jill Rowley was speaking there. I was really like, this is awesome. This is a Martec conference. Joe who is a queen of social selling is speaking at that conference, which means that sales is involved. Like why would sales be involved at the Martec conference. It just blew my mind. And a flight back from San Francisco to Atlanta, and you guys know this part which is like I would just kind of playing with my napkin and trying to draw funnel and flipped it and that's all, flip my funnel was born, but it really came down to answer your question at the deepest level. It came down from a frustration that as a marketer, I believe our role is to really focus on driving the business forward, creating narratives that will make people emotionally charged about what they're about to buy or get into and engage with, really enables sales and product marketing and customer success organizations to show that your brand actually has a life, and it's not just selling buildings and robots there. Your job is really much bigger than just trying to show that you can drive up, drum up some leads.
Randy: It's funny you say that, and I absolutely agree with what you're saying here because we've had this conversation recently where I feel the challenge with those folks tasked with tracking and reporting to your point is more about justifying the spend and trying to validate the ROI as opposed to really what, operations and analytics should be, which is understanding what's working, what's not. So you can continuously optimize, right. That's been a frustration of mine as well when I hear people taking really that validation centric approach to understanding what's working as opposed to actually what we're trying to do here is drive continuous improvement to make sure that we are getting different goals. There's a couple of different ways that I'm seeing people start to do that. But I love your perspective as we talk about this of, as we move into this world, what are the things that you're thinking about in terms of really tactical, the goals you're trying to achieve. It's not quantity of leads in that old world or justifying dollar in dollar out. What are you thinking about and what are you driving towards as your big North Star as a marketing leader?
Sangram: That's a great question, and it's a constant conversation. Just to back up for a second, I think the whole reason marketers are driven by leads is I think it all starts with boards that are driven by Excel spreadsheets and CEOs that are looking at sales and marketing as a machine, and as I co-founded a company, I recognize that, oh my goodness, there is a sales and marketing. It's a one line item. It's not two different line items. So I recognize that. No matter how much marketing wants to be kind of differentiated, and say that, hey, this is marketing is different. No, at the end of the day, the board, the executive team and the overall, like the CFO, they're all looking at sales and marketing efficiency as a single metric, and that drives the health of the business. So there is a big reason that I think nobody takes the time to explain that to me before. So I learned that the hard way. But the answer to your question, more broadly, I think the part that I'm really getting excited about is like, okay, if you're not going to have form fills and leads as a primary indicator of success for marketing then what is it. I've started to kind of noodle around this thought, it really started from Peter Herbert to the VP of Marketing at VersionOne, and now at Terminus, and then Kristen Wendel, who worked with him over there and now at LeanKit is the idea like that the form fills instead of focusing on them, engagement is the new form fill. The point there is, if I can prove, and if I can, if I have to spend time proving something, I'll rather prove that the accounts that matter to us the most are engaging with us, and that's where we need to focus on. If I can prove that every single day, I think I'll have a winning conversation with the executive team and the board. As an example, let's say there are 50 accounts sitting in your pipeline, and they all are right now handled by your sales team, and as a marketer, if you could come in and say that, you know what, of these 50 accounts that we think that are going to close in next 60 days, I think only 10 of them are going to close because based on the engagement of these accounts, I can see only 10 of them are engaged. So the rest of the 40 accounts, no matter how much we want them to close, they are not going to close because the reality is, if they are not spending time with you on your web side through, on your content, reading your content, or with your salesperson, or with your executive team, the chances of them closing is pretty slim. So engagement is the new form fill, and I'm trying to drive this point internally as well as externally is that we need to get better and better at measuring engagement.
Randy: That's really interesting. It reminds me of a conversation I was having with our VP of Marketing and our VP of Revenue this week where we were kind of debating, as you put it, what's the role of sales and what's the role of marketing kind of in this new generation of ABM marketing. We're moving away from that in that mindset where we have to just give warm leads in to a degree, our sales leader was saying, just give us the contacts, give us the accounts, but our marketing leader was saying, you know what, it's still on us to make sure that we warm them up for you. We don't want to just give you accounts, and tell you best of luck, we still want to find ways as you're putting it, Sangram, to create that engagement. I think that's the key is how we're going to do that. Maybe you can give us two or three examples of ways that your team is warming up these contacts and accounts for your sales team.
Sangram: Yeah, absolutely, love to. I'm going to give a shout out to a ton of vendors in this process because we ... One thing I realized also, and I'm sure you guys are seeing this in the space, is that even as a startup company, we did some research a little bit earlier at Terminus, we found that on an average, there are about 20 tools that an average marketing organization uses, regardless of the size of the company. It might be a startup company that started just a couple of years ago to a big company, like McCann at a minimum, they're using about 20 different tools. The whole point, the reason I brought that up is because you have to have certain amount of tools in order to do some of these things. It's not going to happen without that. The good news is that there are some interesting tools out there. For example, we use EverString and Bombora, those are the two things that we use to identify the accounts that are best fit. Now, that meaning, that we have a certain criteria of which type of accounts you want to go after. They will give us the list of accounts that actually fit that criteria. So to your point, Randy, we, as the sales and marketing team, we now know which accounts you want to go after. Let's say they are like these 500 accounts that are gold. We know that if we can get our foot in the door that will be awesome for us. So we use them to kind of get that information. Then our SDR team uses Vidyard for example. What they do is say, they will create personalized videos, and send a video to the prospect saying, let's say, they are trying to prospect McCann they will say, hey, so and so at McCann, I just looked at your website, I know what you guys do, and I think our solution is going to be really helpful for this type of reasons. It's a very personalized, not a call email, sending out like, can you give me 15 minutes of your time. Next time, I get that e-mail I'm going to just like blow up. Anyway, like it's really personalized that really drives the conversation, and then they're running like Terminus ads and stuff like that to kind of warm them up. But at the same time what they do is, saying, hey, if you are not interested right now, and if you just want to check out like what we do and where it is, here is an Uberflip stream that we have created on our website, that is, obviously they don't say, Uberflip stream, they say, here's a link that I created specially for you, so that you can see all the articles related to healthcare. Now that's compelling right, even if you're not interested in the solution, you're going to go check out, like what did you do personally for customizing something for me, and be as Uberflip for that. So just in that example, you could see that I've talked about Bombora, EverString, Terminus, Vidyard, Uberflip and marketing automation platform or… You're using like seven, eight tools right now just to make sure that you are able to engage with that one person or a set of people in that company. Now, because of all of these activities, you're driving them back to our website and certain pages on the website, through a stream, or through a page, or landing page, whatever that might be, I can now measure and see, which of these accounts are actually spending time with me, and that becomes the goldmine. If I can say of the 50 emails I send out with personalized videos, and if 10 of them actually came to my website, after that video and spent time, I now know what is my priority list to go aggressively for those 10 accounts as opposed to all the 50 accounts.
Randy: Just a very specific question, just to make sure everyone listening to this podcast understands, because you're talking about all these different solutions that are giving you the insights on the engagement. Where are you tracking that, or where do you see a lot of the customers that you work with and talk to on a day to day, where do they aggregate all that information? Is that happening in their marketing automation suite?
Sangram: It's happening in multiple places. I don't think there is a single solution today that actually does this well because we all have been tracking more of the activity. We have been a very actively centric mindset. Like hey, how many people attended a webinar, how many people came to an event, and how many people downloaded my ebook. All of these are activities, so all the platforms out there today more or less track activities to a very good degree. But the point is if somebody downloaded an e-book, and if they never read it, we all know, we have done it. I have done it, where I went out, downloaded an e-book but never read it. It's unfortunate. I'm a marketer. It's probably a colossal sin that I did. But the thing that, but I have done it where I have downloaded something, and I never read it. Am I really interested in it? If I haven't spent time with that, what's the point. So activity centric measurement is not giving a whole bit of insight. I don't think there is a tool that does all of these things, especially engagement being a very new thing, I think for marketers to wrap their brain around. But at the highest level, Google Analytics can give you insights into those accounts that are spending time. Terminus does that by giving visitor IDs that will tell you which accounts are spending more time on your website, especially through this thing. I know Vidyard does that, like how much time people are spending on videos. You can get those metrics. But I think this is the new wave that I'm seeing coming out there is we got to know what we created is valuable, and the way we're going to know what we create is valuable is not by the number of clicks and downloads, but by seeing how much time people are spending watching them or reading them.
Randy: It's a great point, and it's so logical. I think sometimes we over complicate the way to measure things. As you're saying, the best way to do it is just to watch where did that time is increasing. Now, it also brings up an interesting question, which is who should be monitoring that? Is it the marketing team, or is it the sales rep, who's engaging with that opportunity at that stage? I'd like to dig deeper into that and just ownership of marketing or sales. But before we do that, we just talked about so many great solutions out there. That is actually a nice segue to hear from some of our other sponsors of this podcast. We'll take a short break here on Content Pros, and be right back with Sangram.
Tyler: Welcome back to Content Pros, today we have Sangram Vajre talking about a really interesting topic, the move from activity centric audience engagement and tracking to an engagement centric world where we're really trying to understand who's spending time with us, who's engaging in our content, who's engaging with our sales team, and how does that direct us in the right way as a marketing and sales organization. Sangram, let's talk a little bit about what we left off with. Who is it in the organization that needs to be thinking about engagement data? Is it the marketing team? Is it the sales team, who, in a really tactical level, should be thinking about how to track and understand who's engaging and what, and what that means for the organization.
Sangram: That's a great question, Tyler. I think just working very closely with sales, they have a hard job. I think marketers definitely ... I've recognized that. I've got to have a lot of empathy for what sales does on a regular basis. A lot of times marketers don't realize that sales actually starts like the person who's doing the sales job, the AE or an SDR. They start at zero every single month, every single month, they start at zero, and that's a really hard thing, to kind of go month in and month out. The reason I kind of brought that up is because of the same thing it's just lack of awareness, and lot of times marketers thinking that they have all the time to come up with that, like campaigns and cool ideas, well, salesperson is like grinding it, in and out, every single day. So as much as possible I feel like marketers should take the ownership. The goal is to make sales more productive. That's how I think about what marketers role is. How can I make sure that as much time as possible, my sales counterpart is spending time selling stuff, not trying to figure out what to sell, who to sell and where to sell and when to sell. That's not their part. They're good at selling. That's why we hired them. That's why they make the money they make, and that's why they work hard. I think it really ... There are two parts of this. One is that the sales and marketing together should own the account selection, so that there is a buy in from the sales team, saying that these are the accounts that we want to work on. So that has to be done together, and marketing can own and lead the effort, but the sales has to 100% buy in that they are in it. And then when it comes to like what's happening with it. At Terminus, for example, we have a marketing meeting that happens every Thursday at 4:00 p.m. The goal of that meeting is specifically to go through these tiered accounts, tier one, tier two, tier three. We have a set of accounts in each one of them. So we're not looking at inbound leads. We're not looking at activities. We're not looking at when is the next webinar coming up. None of that stuff. That is all stuff that happens in another tactical meeting. This is a strategic meeting. In this meeting the goal is to find out what is our penetration on the 100 accounts that are in tier one? Is it 10 accounts? The penetration is defined by how much engagement we're getting in these accounts. Are only 10 accounts engaged of the 40 accounts that we want to go in tier one, then we need to figure out how are we going to engage the other 30 accounts. It's a very strategic conversation that happens, and that conversation is led by a marketer. A marketer needs to come in, and for example, Peter on our side, he comes in, and leads with here are the accounts that we're going after folks that we all agree, here is the way we have tiered them, one, two, and three, based on the importance and the value of these accounts that we can have. Here is where I'm seeing, I'm seeing that we're having low engagement on these accounts, so we need to change our tactics, and something is not working here, so let's dig deep. And here is the strategy that just working, and we're seeing some real value here. Here are the sales reps that are really crushing it. So now let's figure out how we can replicate this. The marketer needs to come with a very clear plan of what's working and what not in the context of engagement and the context of account.
Tyler: Yeah, it's interesting because I really see that an evolution of the demand gen world which itself has been an evolution of lead gen and other practices in the past because what we're talking about here, in my mind, is the reason we want to keep audiences engaged, is not just to keep their attention, but it's to ensure we're consistently educating them, and pulling them into our message and nurturing them, maintaining mind share but also helping them understand why they would be interested in what we do. To me that's the crux of demand generation. It's really about creating the demand when somebody may not necessarily be already bought in. I think there's a really interesting idea there of how that center of excellence around building and nurturing demand in your base, needs you to start thinking a lot more about engagement as a metric. Now to me it also trickles down, of course, into the content team because the way we're going to keep a lot of that engagement from marketing perspective and educate these audiences is through great content that both, of course, gets their attention. But more importantly holds it and comes, draws them back for more. I think that's the real crux of it, and one of the real challenges I see is that a lot of content teams, traditionally, have been very, to your point, download and kind of activity centric. So how many people are downloading the white papers, let's do more of those. But the reality is, I could get 10,000 people to download a white paper if I give it the right name and give it the right clickbait. But my question is how do I get the right 200 people to actually read it, or how do I get the right 300 people to watch this video all the way to the end and hearing the message. So agree or disagree with that, and how does that influence or change the way we think about content as we go forward?
Sangram: Yeah, that's really interesting. I made two points to that. I think there are like two different distinct things that we should talk about. One is I agree 100% that there needs to be a content evolution there of what is content mean, and what content really matters, so I'll touch on that briefly in a second. The other part, which is very, very interesting, is like, if we are a sales and marketing organization, having the same number, because sales and marketing efficiency is one number for the organization, and a marketer is going to lose his job or her job if sales don't hit their number. That has to be like 1000% clear when it is. Then how do sales and marketing work together to make sure that they're constantly working on getting these gears moving in the right direction and are supporting each other. So I'll touch on that in a minute as well. The first part, I look at content as a three-tiered approach. Number one is thought leadership; second is demand gen, third is pipeline velocity. The point, the reason I kind of look at it that way is because the thought leadership is the why. You've got to go in and tell your target audiences or the world, why do you care and why is it important for us. That's very important, and that's something that I think marketers are doing less of. I would love for that to be the really important part, which is the storytelling around getting people excited about the why, behind whatever it is that you're trying to sell, get people excited about that. Then the demand gen really comes in to say that, hey, here's the why, and if people believe in the why, and if you get that people excited, then a demand gen thing is about like operationalizing that why, saying that hey, you believe that this is important, right, everybody on the same page, great, well, here's how you can do that, and here's how we can help you do that. That's the demand gen goal in my view. The third part is pipeline velocity, or product marketing part, which is, okay, now that you understand the why, now that we have content that helps people operationalize the why, it's well, how do you do it. Now, let me show you specifically with product features and product benefits that will drive more content. So the content itself needs to really follow, in my mind, these three things. I see more and more organizations just completely missing one of these three levers, and that's where I feel they either have too much thought leadership but nothing that helps customers navigate it, or they have too much products and content.
Tyler: Yeah, it makes total sense. I think there's huge value there. Those are simple ideas of architecting it in those buckets, and you can almost do an audit yourself of do I have the right content in each of these buckets. I'm with you, keep going.
Sangram: The second part of your question really was, well, what's the value in this, and how do we kind of see all this thing together, and anything it really comes down to the basic of sales and marketing alignment, and as cliché as that sound, I know that, and I've been fortunate enough to be part of the last two organizations where sales and marketing has been on one page. At Pardot, as well as the Terminus, it's, all right, guys, marketing is not here for creating leads. We are here to drive revenue. Sales is, like, we believe that that's awesome. How do we do that? We are in a room like, sales and marketing teams meet almost like three, five times a day. They are constantly lockstep trying to figure out what works, trying to help with different pitches, different people in the organization. All that stuff. That level of engagement just creates that amazing relationship is when you close a deal, it's about high fiving. The sales comes to the marker, gives them a hug or vice versa, not like, hey, I closed the deal, it's more like we closed the deal. We are working on these accounts, and the marketers feels as excited about closing an account because it was one of the top tier accounts that they have been helping the sales engage. So that kind of like creating those moments in the company where there's a high-five and chest bump and all those things.
Tyler: What really stands out there is back to, Sangram, talked about multiple times in this podcast, which is the importance of thinking about sales and marketing efficiency and effectiveness as a collective. I do think about this in our own world a lot as well because we have these really big top of funnel metrics but what we really care about is pipeline and revenue, and that's ultimately what we're measured on. Instead of increasing volume and keeping my conversion rates through the funnel the same, I would much rather improve my conversion rate through the funnel, drive less leads and have more output because we're focusing on the kinds of activities that we all know are going to move the needle and are going to generate activity in the kinds of accounts that we know we can sell to. There's such an efficiency play there, and making sure that both teams are focused on activities that are finding the right people, or progressing the right deals. I think these are topics that I think every marketer needs to be thinking about whether you're content or demand or marketing leadership. Do you have any last words of advice in terms of how people need to think about, start putting these things into practice? What are maybe two or three tactical things that you've done in your own organization, you mentioned the weekly marketing meeting, but what are some of the things that you've done to really walk the talk and make this a part of how your marketing and sales teams work?
Sangram: Sure. I think one is own it. I'm kind of listening to somebody, his name is Clay. He speaks at local events and things like that. He wrote a book that's coming out, I think, in September. It's about how do you lead when you're not in charge. How do you lead when you're not in charge? When you think about that thing is like, hey, look, as a marketer, you might feel you're not in charge of closing the deals. You might feel like you're not in charge of driving the business forward. Your job is to create content and blog articles. If you think that then you're missing out. You got to be able to lead when you're not in charge. Every person kind of owes it to themselves and to the organization they belong to, to lead when nobody's in charge. If you see that the sales and marketing alignment is not there, lead that. If you see that you're not working on the right accounts, lead that. If you see that the content is not created for moving people in the right places, and you are focusing on one more than the other, lead that. I think nowhere else, I see more innovation than it is in marketing today, so, we have the best opportunity to be successful. But I've seen people not taking the charge and waiting for somebody else thinking it's somebody else's job; it's not, it's yours if you see it.
Randy: I love that Sangram. It's funny. That relates a lot to one of the core values that we look for when we hire someone here to reflect, and we say we want people who are entrepreneurial, but we say, we don't define being an entrepreneur starting a business, is simply owning what's in front of you. As long as you own what's in front of you, things work better. I think everything you're talking about there is how we approach this as a marketer is the exact same way. We own what's in front of us and the company and our efforts will succeed. Some great messages there. We're going to tone away from the serious of those. We wrap up here in the last minute or so. We always like to get to know our guests. This is actually your second time on the podcast, so I had it kind of like really stretch away from some of my notes of things we asked you last time. I'm going to go little through your history to present and just kind of have some fun. The first question I've got for you is, you worked at Pardot, what is the most annoying way that people pronounce Pardot? I'm sure you had to deal with that, I struggled for a long time. What was the one that just made you cringe?
Sangram: This was great. This was like right after the acquisition. There was somebody announcing at Dreamforce. We were acquired by Salesforce, and we're Dreamforce thinking that, now, Salesforce is going to say our name in front of hundreds of thousands of people, and somebody pronounced it as Pardo. That was like wow, it's a great French company, but right in the middle of the .... I remember who it was, he, and then there's this Pardot acquisition that Salesforce did, and we were like, Oh, my goodness.
Randy: Basically you were acquired and rebranded on the exact same day. That must have been fun. Now you're at Terminus, and I know you actually play on this, the idea of Terminus and Terminator, and I think you call out your team members Terminators in some sense. So without telling us the story behind that, we got to know what is your favorite Arnold Schwarzenegger movie?
Sangram: Oh, man, dude, where do I start. I have seen all of his, from the Rambo movies. I don't know people, they can go back that back or Commando. That is one of my favorite movies that he did. Obviously, I think I've seen more of his movies than any other actor. I think one of the best comment or the best phrase that I still remember and we use at the company is really like, I am back.
Tyler: I am going to slide in a little like Kindergarten Cop.
Sangram: Whenever a salesperson closes a deal, and they feel good about it, and they were kind of in a lull for a little bit, they like, I am back, and we love that.
Tyler: I was going to go True Lies. We've all got some good ones there. It's amazing how many awesome movies he was in. The last question I've got for you is I actually watched a video in one of the footers either from you of your e-mail or someone recently, and you always seem to have a keep-on these videos. Without explaining that, let's just go with, what is your favorite superhero? If you could be superhero, who would it be?
Sangram: That's a good one. Superhero is our theme, so I should have picked one by now. I like Captain America. I feel it's kind of old school kind of getting your hands dirty, and doing the things, and it's been there forever. I feel like there's something to kind of getting your hands dirty, being raw at it, and just being like, not having everything that Iron Man has, everything shoots from every part of his body, and that's cool. Let's get rusty, let's get our hands dirty. Let's make this s**t happen. That feel is what I get from him.
Randy: I love it. I don't know that one Tyler. I was going to sign off on behalf of like Spider-Man and Captain America, and whatnot on this podcast for people to tune in to the next time we all get together. This has been so much fun, Sangram. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the Content Pros podcast. I encourage everyone to learn from Sangram and his team at Terminus.com, or also at FlipMyFunnel. You search those you are going to come with a ton of content to learn how to execute at a high level on your own. On behalf of Tyler, at Vidyard, I'm Randy at Uberflip. This has been the Content Pros podcast. And please continue to give us feedback of what you want to hear. Thanks so much for tuning in.
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