How Authors and Podcasters Market Through Social

How Authors and Podcasters Market Through Social

In this special episode of the Social Pros Podcast, Jay and Adam speak with a wide range of authors, podcasters, and former co-hosts to discuss how they build businesses through social media and beyond.

In This Episode:

Jay Baer

Convince & Convert

Adam Brown


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Full Episode Details

Using Social Media for Business Growth

Whether your business is a DIY startup or a Fortune 500 company, social media is an equally available and equally important part of your marketing strategy. Anyone with an internet connection and a good product can begin building an audience.

Now for over 300 episodes, the Social Pros Podcast has taken a deep dive into the world of social media marketing, investigating the successes, failures, and strategies of some of the world’s most successful companies. In this second of two special episodes, hear a wide range of authors and podcasters talk about how they use social media to build their business.

In This Episode

  • Shama Hyder — Founder and CEO at Zen Media
  • Mark Schaefer — Executive Director at Schaefer Marketing Solutions LLC
  • Eric Boggs — CEO at RevBoss
  • Jeffrey Rohrs — Chief Marketing Officer at Yext
  • Jess Ostroff — Director of Calm at Don’t Panic Management
  • Randy Frisch — Co-Founder, CMO, and President at Uberflip
  • Dan Gingiss — Vice President, Strategic Group at Persado
  • Nick Cicero — Founder and CEO at Delmondo
  • Joey Coleman — Chief Experience Composer at Design Symphony

Quotes From This Episode

The future belongs to companies who can give the connected consumer a seamless experience. Click To Tweet

“For us, social media is still a key input into what we’re doing, but more as a data play, as opposed to a broadcast play.” — @ericboggs

“The smallest content in the world, little factoids about your business, are what consumers are looking for every single day. The accuracy of that information is critical and it better come from the source.” — @jkrohrs

“As much as we can capture attention on social, if we don’t keep that attention, they’re just gonna go on to the next brand that’s been recommended.” — @randyfrisch

“Customers today are looking to have a relationship with a brand, not just when they have a problem.” — @dgingiss

There's always room for a great brand. Click To Tweet

“Research shows that somewhere between 20 and 70% of new customers will decide to quit doing business with you before the 100 day anniversary. If you can get them to day 101, they’ll stay for five years.” — @thejoeycoleman

See you next week!

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Episode Transcript

Jay Baer:Hey, everybody, it's Jay Bear, founder of Convince & Convert Now. We're gonna keep the party rolling here on the Big Episode 300 reunion Tour with our friend Shama Hyder, who is gonna pop up here on the screen just like magic. There she is!
Adam:Look at that!
Jay Baer:Miss Hyder, how are ya?
Adam:Facebook magic.
Shama Hyder:I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. This is fun.
Jay Baer:How are you?
Shama Hyder:I'm doing well. I'm doing well. It's been a really busy start to 2018, but that is not me complaining. So, thank-
Adam:I'm curious; we had you on the show, was it, I think episode 259, so not that long ago, but still, in Internet years or social years, you multiply it by seven, so still pretty significant amount of time.
I'm curious what your thoughts are on what being a connected consumer and what reaching a connected consumer means to you today in 2018 that may have been different even from when we talked to you last in 2017. What things are you seeing, what trends are you seeing, what platforms or channels or devices are you see that's different than just a couple months ago?
Shama Hyder:Yeah, absolutely. So I think the shift's happened really over 18 months, I would say. That's where I've seen a real spike, and definitely more now than ever before. And so we think for the longest time folks like us have been the waving the flag of marketing's not a bandaid for a bullet hole, right? That whole experience has to make sense. So, digital customer service, really digital anything, marketing, influence marketing ... All of this has to play together.
And so let's say that you are a retail shop or you have a retail shop or you are a retailer. I think now businesses are getting to the point where you realize, 'Okay, so my online can't really be disconnected from the offline.' I know that seems simplistic as I say it, but it's really not, because I feel like, for the longest time social and digital had to prove itself to say, "Hey, it's real. It's here to stay. The Internets is not a fad." That sort of thing.
Adam:We were still sitting at the kids' table at Thanksgiving.
Shama Hyder:Yeah, exactly. And so I think, now that that's been, "Yeah, okay, this is legit. This is here to stay. This isn't changing." I think now, businesses, brands are looking around and saying, "Okay. So if this is here to stay, what does that look like for my overall business? What does that really mean?" And so I'll give you just a couple of examples of different projects, just broad things.
For example, had a e-commerce store from Brazil reach out to us and they said, "We really wanna build a physical store to match the e-commerce so people can experience that brand, and we wanna franchise it." I was like, "That sounds great." So I think businesses are thinking, and brands are thinking about those physical and digital lines really, really blurring, which is why when so many people said, "Shama, you're in the digital world. Why would you start a company that's in the physical space, in the more traditional space?" "Because," I said, "I think that space is going to be really re-imagined and re-envisioned in the coming years. That's what's exciting to me about that.
Jay Baer:It has to be, right? What used to go the other way around, that physical was influenced by digital and now digital is being influenced by physical, because if you still exist in the physical environment you have to up your game considerably. You saw Amazon roll out the no-checkout store this week, and you think about what that means for retail, and I think it's fascinating to see just in the last six to 12 months, how effective Instagram has become as a retail front end as well. And so you start [crosstalk 00:03:47].
Shama Hyder:Oh, absolutely.
Adam:It's gotta be seamless between what happens on screen and what happens in the real world.
Shama Hyder:Yeah, and that's really the key word. You hit it right on the head, Adam, which is, it's seamless, and so I think the future belongs to companies and people within brands, within agencies, you name it, to really be able to connect those dots and to give that connected consumer a seamless experience.
And so when you talk about that connected consumer, I think we talk also about just how us, all of us, we put our marketing, branding hats on but then we're also consumers, our expectations are so dramatically different in that ... Salesforce actually released a white paper recently which I thought was fascinating, and they found things like, 80% of people expect a brand to respond to a customer service query within six hours. And that was not the expectation or the norm a while ago, right? But that is the norm now. They looked at both B to B and B to C, even B to B companies don't wanna be treated as "the organization." They more so than ever wanna be treated in a personalized human manner.
So, I think it's really interesting as more high-tech we get the expectation is that you have the high touch to match that high tech. And I think that is a very, very different thing than we've seen in the past.
Jay Baer:Yeah, you're right about the B to B versus the B to C balance as well. It wasn't that long ago that consumers, even connected consumers, would treat expectations differently based on category or industry. People would think, "Well, that's pretty responsive customer service for a manufacturing plant or for a bank." And that doesn't really happen anymore. Customer's expectations are liquid. Increasingly, people think, "Well, if this company can deliver it, why can't your company deliver it? I don't really care what kind of company you are or what industry you operate in. Why can't you be faster? Why can't you be more responsive? Why can't you deliver a great customer experience?"
And so, we've been talking to clients about that a lot. It's not about what your competitor [inaudible 00:06:04], it's the fact that the greatest companies in the world are training your customers what is [inaudible 00:06:10] and lots of brands are not ready to jump into that deep water.
Shama Hyder:Yeah. And so, they might have to wade their toe in. But I think they'll realize very quickly that market share belongs to those who get it. And you're so right in that, let's say you have a B to B buyer and you sell, I don't know, tech software, and you think, "Well, I've got a really small group of audience and we're so cutting-edge compared to the rest of our competitors." But your customers aren't even comparing you to the rest of your competitors in the industry. They're saying, "Hey, we've got ... I just seamlessly had Amazon Prime deliver my order same day via drone. I just went out and checked out these reviews ..." Everything in their world works so well, so seamlessly. When they come to you, they're not looking at that in a silo and saying, "Oh, well, this is different. This industry ..." They're expecting that same level of experience, that same level of seamlessness. And that experience matters so much more today than ever before.
I mean, you think about what like Skittles is doing, which I thought is really interesting. Rather than their Super Bowl ad, they're releasing it to one viewer. Did you guys hear about this?
Jay Baer:No.
Shama Hyder:Yeah, so Skittles is spending apparently the same amount of money they always have on a Super Bowl ad, but they've chosen this one teenage fan who's gonna watch the ad. And then they're gonna live stream his reaction to the ad. And that's it. That is their ad.
Jay Baer:I love it.
Shama Hyder:And so-
Adam:That's genius.
Shama Hyder:And it's interesting, 'cause it's like the zagging while everyone's zigging [crosstalk 00:07:43].
Jay Baer:Yeah, it's really smart. It's funny about the changing expectations. I'm working on this new book right now with Daniel Lemon, called Top Triggers. And one of the too triggers, sort of word of mouth generators that we initially researched was Enterprise Rent-a-Car. Because they pick you up. We all know that. That's been their slogan for a really long time. But we actually did some deep conversational research and found that nobody talks about that anymore. Because you know who else picks you up? Uber, Lyft, everybody. So you can actually look at the history, the conversation of history was that picking you up was a big deal, and now nobody cares at all.
Adam:Well, they owned it in their industry, but now-
Jay Baer:They owned it.
Adam:... that industry isn't as relevant.
Jay Baer:It doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. And so you had this true operational differentiator that because of technology changes and customer experience shifts and customer expectations shifts, it's not just like, poof, it's gone.
Shama Hyder:Yeah, yeah. And you know, Jay, [inaudible 00:08:47] work with like Chase Business as one of our clients, right? And what's fascinating is their always looking at how to up their game, or how they serve their customers. Because their used to be a time when having a mobile app for a bank was really cool.
Jay Baer:Crazy.
Shama Hyder:Like we have mobile banking. It's like, everyone now has mobile banking. And so yeah, I think as innovation of course gets ... our cool becomes the norm. You think about even back to toll free numbers. I still remember when toll-free numbers were cool. Or someone had a toll-free number. Like oh man that's-
Jay Baer:I remember when it went from 800 to 888, 'cause we ran out of 800 numbers, and it was like, "I don't know, this is pretty crazy."
Shama Hyder:It was. And remember when people used to love giving out there @msn, @hotmail email addresses. [crosstalk 00:09:38].
Jay Baer:My mom still has a hotmail email address. So God bless her.
Shama Hyder:Your right, things change and if companies don't evolve, if they're not looking ahead, they're getting behind.
Jay Baer:Awesome [crosstalk 00:09:49] to you as always. Congrats [inaudible 00:09:50]. Excited about the new roll out brand also. And Momentum on paperback, February 6.
Shama Hyder:Okay. Love you both, bye-bye.
Jay Baer:See ya, thanks for being here.
Adam:Thank you.
Shama Hyder:Bye.
Jay Baer:Alright, we're gonna keep this party rolling Mr. Brown.
Adam:Well, it is rolling, rolling, rolling. I love hearing these stories and these insights. And I mean again, how amazing this is all changing so, so quickly.
Jay Baer:You no who never changes? Mark Shaffer.
Adam:Mark Shaffer, I mean the man, the myth, the legend.
Jay Baer:As consistent as-
Adam:He is.
Jay Baer:Consistent as an old war horse.
Mark, what, you wrote a book recently called Known, which had a tremendous impact on so many people. I'm going to [inaudible 00:10:34] of summarizing it as a personal branding book. It's so much more than that, but that's the easiest way to describe it. Given all the shifts in social media, tools and tactics, in over the last six to 12 months, would you give people different advise today, than you would have a year ago in terms of how to actually build and propagate their personal brand in social.
Mark:You know that's a great question Jay. I would expect nothing less of you.
Jay Baer:Usually Adam has the great questions.
Mark:And I actually, I've thought about that a lot. But my main thesis I think really of Known, is this idea of how in the past brands were created through an accumulation of advertising impressions. And one of the cataclysmic events we're seeing is the effectiveness of advertising is going down, it's going away. We're moving inexorably toward an advertising free world. And so my thesis is that in the future, brands will be built by an accumulation of human impressions, not just adverting. There'll be a place for advertising. But more and more we see in all the research how people wanna know, "What's going on at that company? Who are these people? What do they stand for? What do they do? How do they treat the world?"
And so I think that the main idea behind Known is more relevant than ever. I think even the techniques in Known are more relevant than ever. Because I think, I believe with all my heart that in the end the most human company will win. And it doesn't matter what changes they throw at us, it doesn't matter what the next social network is gonna be. If we approach our businesses through this filter, how can be more human in every interaction, every engagement, every connection, answering every question that we have, that's the filter we need to have no matter what changes are coming at us on the social web.
Adam:I wanna kind of parse that a little bit further, because I think that's a fascinating concept. And working at sales force, that concept is very core to our beliefs.
Mark:Absolutely. You guys do a great job.
Adam:Our CEO and founder [Mark Beneofit00:13:13] at Dovos and the world economic forum this week making some really interesting statements around companies putting profit before culture. And both the culture of how you help your customers, how you help the world, and how you help your employees.
I'm curios from you opinion, and this could be a question around both business branding as well as personal branding. Can you today be an effective brand by not being a social activist. By staying on the sidelines and not participating in these types of kind of activism type discussions.
Mark:I think time will tell. I know Jay's written a lot about this, how brands are really being pulled into a place where they're forced to take a stand.
Adam:Right or left. [crosstalk 00:14:04] politically. Yep.
Mark:On the other hand, sometimes you just want a hamburger. Sometimes you just need a carwash. I think there's a lot of companies where we overthink things sometimes. I think, look if you're sales force, you're gonna be pulled in these directions. If you're Coca-Cola, you're gonna be pulled in these directions. But most businesses today I think are gonna be okay. There's gonna be ways to navigate those waters that'll be okay. But it is increasingly a polarized world. And one of the beautiful things about social media, it is elevating these conversations that need to be elevated. And I think it's giving companies that have their ... that are well managed companies, that are ethical, humanistic companies, it gives them an opportunity to show what they're made of.
You're being more of yourself at your best. And that's what's coming through on the web. So it's an opportunity for the best company and the best brands. I think that's interesting and exciting. I don't think there's ever been a more fun time to be in marketing.
Jay Baer:Mark, thank you very much for being here. Thanks for taking the time pop back in here on the 300th episode of [crosstalk 00:15:26] reunion week.
Mark:Such an honor to be with you, and congratulations on such a fine, fine, fine show.
Jay Baer:Thanks, we appreciate it. And ladies and gentlemen, make sure you grab The Marketing Companion, wherever it is that you get your podcasts. Thanks my friend, see you soon.
Mark:Thank you.
Adam:Thanks mark.
Jay Baer:See ya Mark.
I am so delighted, overwhelming happy to welcome to Social Pros, Eric Bogs, who quite literally invented this whole thing. It was his idea, or at least on his watch when he was the CEO of Argyle Social. Eric is now the founder and CEO of Rev Boss. My friend Mr. Bogs, it's great to see you. Welcome back to Social Pros.
Eric B.:Greetings.
Jay Baer:As you look at the creation of your new company and everything you're doing at Rev Boss, how are you approaching marketing and communications, social and not social, notwithstanding, different than a decade ago?
Eric B.:Yeah, well not quite a decade ago, although it seems like three or four decades ago based on the brain damage and war scars. For us, we still use social media data as a data engine, honestly. So if we can find a snippet about a person and we can confirm that snippet based on something from LinkedIn, or as an example, if we can find a person's first name and last name in job title on LinkedIn, we can turn that into an email address, pretty easily using software and cloud workers and a lot of machine learning magic.
And so for us social media is still a key input into what we're doing, but more as a data play, as opposed to a broadcast play.
Jay Baer:I think that's true for a lot of people.
Mr. Bogs, thank you so much for being the genesis of this podcast. For taking a gamble on this so long ago, on a lark, and here we are. We most definitely would not be here without you. You were exemplary. On the 52, let me check my list here, the 52 shows that we did together. If Adam is ever out sick, you can [inaudible 00:17:43], you can get back in the chair.
Eric B.:Well give me a holler. I still have opinions, they might not be as informed as they would have been a few years ago, but that won't stop me from saying what I think.
Jay Baer:I appreciate that.
Adam:That makes for good podcasts.
Jay Baer:Thanks so much.
Eric B.:Yeah, thanks Jay, thanks Adam. [crosstalk 00:18:00].
Adam:See yeah buddy.
Jay Baer:Mr. Jeffrey [crosstalk 00:18:03].
Jeff:Speaking of train wrecks.
Jay Baer:Speaking of train wrecks. Our next guest embodies everything about that term. He is not the chief marketing officer of Yext. A publicly created, dynamic fast growing powerhouse of a company. Before that he was also at Sales Force Marketing Cloud. And was the cohost of this esteemed podcast. I'm again, checking the database, from episode 53 until episode 171. Jeff tell us about Yext, and what you guys are doing and how things are happening.
Jeff:So Yext in a nutshell, our mission is to help put perfect information everywhere so that consumers are getting the right information about businesses and the moments that matter to them. So in order to do that, we're trying to flip the model from a pull to a push. Meaning our customers use our knowledge engine and integrate directly in with the intelligence services today, like Google, like Facebook, like Yelp. The behind the scenes on Siri and Cortona and these services to control the customer critical facts that are most important to customers as they look to discover a new restaurant, or the store hours, or if a doctor is accepting new patients or their insurance. Or the menu of particular restaurants and what allergens it might have.
It was a really neat move, about two and a half years ago I made the move and it was because Yext is really at the crossroads of the rise of mobile, the rise of mobility, and the rise of AI and voice search. Just all of these new ways to interact and find information. And again we just believe that where we're heading is just a perfect information state and in order to get there, you've gotta put the folks who know the information best in charge of it and that's the business.
Jay Baer:What you guys are doing Jeff is so fascinating. I mean as you said, the intersection of mobility, the intersection of mobile devices. I'm curious kind of what you're thinking and seeing around the world of AR, augmented reality. We know Apple with the new iOS is coming out here in just a week or two even with 11, but now 11.3, is considering investing more and more into augmented reality. How is that going to impact this whole geo-mobile mobility world that you right at Yext are at the crossroads of?
Jeff:So you already see it in Google Lens. And really what it is, it's a UI. So with Google Lens I can hold it up in the real world and Google's overlaying information about the businesses around me. And we like to say that you can't control the UI of the intelligence services consumers are using, you can't control their AI, the artificial intelligence and algorithms they use to rand and elevate things up to the top for discovery by the consumer. But what you can control is the knowledge that they know about you. And that's now becoming a primary responsibility of the business. It's almost flipping content marketing on it's head. Because content marketing we're thinking about big content to attract people. The smallest content in the world, little factoids about your business, consumers are looking for every single day. And whether they're holding up a device or they're wearing glasses in the future, they've got an implant, the accuracy of that information is gonna be critical and it better come from the source.
Jay Baer:[crosstalk 00:21:33].
Adam:Oh go ahead Jay.
Jay Baer:I was just gonna say Jeff, you and I talked about this is the past that increasingly now when you Facebook, Yelp, TripAdvisor, you will be asked by those intelligent services to confirm facts about the business. And I was actually talking to my daughter about this the other day. She's a freshman in college and she was bemoaning the fact that she's getting asked to confirm, "Is this restaurant crowd friendly?" She's like, "I don't know, I'm 19. I [inaudible 00:22:00]. What do I know about crowd friendly. It's not even something I think about.? But yet we're being asked to do the database work for all these intelligent services and are we the best source of truth? I would argue, no the business itself is the best source of truth and that's what Yext enables.
Jeff:Yeah, we agree wholeheartedly. I was at a dinner with some customers and prospects last night, and one of our customers was talking about the feedback loop we have, because as many of your viewers and listeners might know, when you use Google Maps, and you accidentally shake it, you get this little message bar at the bottom that says, "Do you wanna suggest an edit? Do you want to add a location?" And Google and Facebook and a lot of these services are trying to crowdsource information because the lion's share of the world's businesses are not actively managing their digital knowledge. They're not actively using a Yext to control this. And so they've gotta get it from somewhere. But this customer sharing with us the feedback loop where she gets to see those suggestions, she rejects 99.9% of them.
Again, it's not because the consumer, the customer is ill-intentioned, it's just they might not know the exact information that's being asked of them. And as we all know, the accuracy of consumer suggestions probably goes down as the hours get later and later and the alcohol consumption gets higher.
Jay Baer:Alright, now we're gonna get the real story of Social Pros. [crosstalk 00:23:28]
Adam:Barbra Walters [crosstalk 00:23:31].
Jay Baer:Because now coming onto the program is the one, the only, the world famous author, executive producer of social pros and a number of other things, Miss Jess [inaudible 00:23:44]. The reason that Jess is here on this program is that she has produced all 300 episodes of this podcast, as well as hundreds of episodes of out sister shows. The content experience and the experience of this show, and also does a lot of other stuff that [inaudible 00:24:01] and for a number of other people. So Jess tell us, we talked to Eric about this briefly a few minutes ago, how different the show is now, than it was when we first started.
Jess:Well, I think that I've been really impressed with how your interview skills have evolved and gotten amazing. I mean you were always a great interviewer because I know that you always wanted to be a talk show host. But I think that the show has helped elevate that profile for you, which is really great. I've also seen over the years, difference hosts have ... different co-hosts, I should say, have different ways that they like to be communicated with, ways they like to be scheduled with. And the way we've sourced guests has changed. I think in the beginning it was sort of like fly by the seat of your pants. And you were doing a lot of live shows. Wherever you went, you were kind of like, I'm gonna bring my microphone and we're gonna do this in a hotel room.
The travel schedules and the profile of all of it has really gotten amazingly great. So you can't do those as much as you used to, but it's so fun when we get those live shows like this, this week doing these Facebook Lives has just been amazing because I think you get a different take into people and it's a little more casual. I think that actually you guys should just do video every time. But maybe not do it live. Have it on some other platform. Because there is something to be said for seeing your faces. I mean Adam, I never see you, I never-
Adam:I know.
Jess:It's crazy. And I never ... I don't think I've met you in person either.
Adam:I don't think we've met. We've always been virtual, much like your book talks a little bit about.
Jess:Yeah, but it's really cool. I'm just so proud that it's worked out. Because when Jay asked me to produce this podcast, I didn't know how to produce a podcast. Little known fact.
Jay Baer:That never stopped us before.
Jay Baer:It never stopped us before.
Jess:Right, exactly. Figured it out. Eric and Tristen, they were the ones, like you said, that really made this happen. Tristen I remember doing like Garage Band training with him back in whatever year that was. And now of course there's all these courses and tutorials about how to produce a podcast. But that didn't exist really when we were starting this. And we made a lot of mistakes, but it worked out and it's still going, so woo-hoo.
Adam:It's just so hard to believe that ... I was so lucky Jess to come into this at episode 172, Jay all the work you've done, Jess the work you've done in producing this. Having platforms and tools like Zincaster which we use for the audio portion makes this so much easier. So I stepped in and so much of the heavy lifting had already been done by you two.
Jess I'm curious as you look at the pantheon of these 300 episodes, how have the topics changed? How have the things that we've spoken about on the shows changed? Has it gotten more strategic, has it gotten more tactical? I agree with you that I think it's gotten more comfortable and casual as everybody's gotten more comfortable with the microphone. But I'm curious from your point of listening to all of these episodes, what you find.
Jess:Yeah, I mean I think it's gotten more pointed. In the beginning, social media was so ... it wasn't new, but I think this was one of the first social media podcasts. And so the topics were pretty high level. Like how do you engage with people online. And now it's like every episode is so specific. And there's something there. Each person is really more specialized I think in what they're doing. And so that way they can go deeper into that particular topic. And I think that actually makes it more useful. And from a listener perspective, if you look at something and you're like, "Well, I'm not a SnapChat person, so I'm not gonna listen to that episode." But then the following week it's Instagram, or it's how to take your online connections offline.
I think having it be more specific like that and having guests who are really focused on one particular element of this whole social media landscape, makes it more useful, because you can get more actionable things, out of each 45 minutes of conversation. So that's been interesting because I wasn't ... when I thought about it I was like, "How could you possibly have talked to 300 people about social media. Some of the guests have been repeats and it's fun to hear those too, because every time a person comes on another time, they have something different to talk about. And that's a testament to the industry too. It's changing so fast, that it is important to have these people on more than once to get their evolution, their take on what's actually gone on in the last year or the last two years since they were originally a guest. So that's really [crosstalk 00:29:11].
Jay Baer:I think we had Ike on a couple days ago, he had like five years of [inaudible 00:29:16], something like that. It's kind of crazy.
Jess:That's ... and five years is like a hundred years in social media time.
Jay Baer:Well, and to have the same job.
Jay Baer:I mean almost nobody has the same job in social media for five years. It's pretty unusual. Jess, plug the book and then we're gonna let you go.
Jess:Okay. My book is available as of this week, a couple days ago on Amazon. If you search "Panic Proof," you should be able to find it, and if you don't, let me know. And I hope ... it's all about how to use virtual assistants, but kind of how to get to the core of what you're best at and how to delegate the rest. And how to find the right person to do that. And I know that there are a lot of books out there about virtual assistants, and I mention them in my book as well, but I think that if you can take the best out of all of them, as you are creating your delegation strategy, you'll be in a really great place to build a life that you really love and are passionate about. So thank you.
Jay Baer:Well, you've certainly helped us build this show. Thank you for all the work. 300 episodes of production on this podcast.
Jay Baer:Thank you. We really appreciate it.
Jess:Well, and it's not just me, it is my team at don't panic as well. So I have to give some credit to them.
Jay Baer:Absolutely. Thanks Jess.
Adam:Thanks Jess.
Jess:Thank you.
Jay Baer:Bye.
Look who's here. It is-
Randy T.:Hey guys.
Jay Baer:... Mr. Randy Thrish. Hey buddy, how you doing?
Randy T.:I'm good, I'm good. I feel like I see you all the time now, this is great.
Jay Baer:I know. Randy is the co-founder of Uber-Flip. A fantastic marketing company that makes content marketing hubs. But Randy is also the cohost of our sister podcast, The Content Experience. Tell folks about how Uber-Flip uses social media most effectively.
Randy T.:Sure. I guess we've seen a shift in terms of how we're using social. In fact, we sell the B to B marketers and we're a B to B org ourself in terms of how we go to market. So I think there's been a big change from ... if you'll humor me, going from having conversations on there all the time, to actually using social to direct people to content that you actually have. Maybe that's my content bias or the fact that I am as you said, the founder of a content company, the cohost of a content based podcast. But what we try to do most often is actually think about how do we get people off that channel, but use it as a way to hook them at some point.
Jay Baer:To take them off that channel to go where? To go to their website? To pick up the phone?
Randy T.:That's a great question. What I think a lot of us have learned from social is how immersive it is. And the problem with that, at the same time, is that all these channels, let's just pick one, say LinkedIn, their building our home feed to be essentially an infinite scroll of all the things that I may care about. So if I sit down for five minutes at the end of the days and I say, "I'm gonna literally spend five minutes here-
Adam:No 10 minutes.
Randy T.:It's 15. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 10 if I'm lucky.
Adam:It's like a potato chip.
Randy T.:Exactly.
Adam:You can never only eat one.
Randy T.:True, true. Like Pringles. Pringles is probably the worst for that. Because it's so long. You start feeling bad as you go really deep [crosstalk 00:32:35].
Exactly. I think what a lot of us have realized is that as much as we can capture attention on social, if we don't keep that attention, then their just gonna go on to the next brand that's been recommended. So for us, what we try and help companies do is actually think about okay, if we can hook them with a great piece of content, and then link them to somewhere else that has that same infinite scroll immersive experience, but we're just emulating that on our own site. To answer your question Adam, it's how do we bring them to something that we can control-
Adam:Inside the fence.
Randy T.:Exactly. One of my favorite definitions of content marketing digs into the idea of owned content. So if we own it, let's try and own the visitor, own their path they take.
Jay Baer:I like it. Randy thank you so much for being part of The Content Experience podcast. Make sure you download and subscribe to the show. It's a spectacular ... see yeah buddy, thanks.
Randy T.:Take care.
Jay Baer:Alright. Now we're gonna keep this party started rolling, with another one of our favorite people. He is the cohost of one of our other sister shows, The Experience This Show, a spectacular audio program about content, about I should say customer service and customer experience. It is Mr. Dan Gingus who is also an author of a fantastic book on social media customer care. Mr Gingus how are you?
Dan:Hi, I'm doing great.
Jay Baer:Dan you are, among other noteworthy accomplishments, one of the primary stars of my book, Hug Your Haters. Your book on social care is spectacular as well. And we talk about social care a lot on this program. Tell us how your [inaudible 00:34:17] social care has changed over the last couple of years.
Dan:Well, a couple things. I think first of all, more brands have finally figured out that it's something that they have to be doing. I think we saw that this week even with a brand new brand, up on Twitter Crock-pot, after they were referenced unfortunately in a fictional fire on the show This Is Us. But they did a great job of showing up immediately and engaging with people. And so better late than never. But I think that you're seeing a lot more brands do it. And then I think obviously the other big change is the move to messaging. And what I really love about that is I think it is a win-win for brands and for customers. Brands obviously love it because it takes some of the negativity out of the public light and brings it into a more private channel. It's also easier to engage with just because you're not limited to 240 characters, or 280 characters, excuse me. And you just have a little more freedom to write what you want.
Customers really like it because it's an easy back and forth. It's resolves the biggest pain point of not having to repeat your problem because your entire history is saved forever in terms of you engagement with the brand. So I think that's gonna be a trend that's gonna continue really hot and heavy. And I think it's ... like I said, I think it's a win-win. It's also nice for training. Because once you teach agents how to deal with live chat on a website or Facebook messenger and Twitter DM. They basically ... I think there will be a time where agents won't even need to know what channel they're on, because the underlying technology will all look the same.
Adam:I know Dan one of the things you talk about on the show is this idea of customer experience. And it's not about no longer just customer service, but customer experience. And I'm curious even with what you're talking about, this idea that when you do interact with a brand, they know who you are, they know the issues or challenges that you've had in the past. And maybe that can help you not to have to repeat yourself and make the experience that much better.
Talk about it as in a bigger picture, this idea of what customer experience is and how it's more than just that tweet or that message. It's that whole, are you stepping into a physical location to your virtual experience, to packaging, to everything. That's really I think an interesting kind of concept that fascinated me at least.
Dan:Absolutely. In fact that is the entire basis for our podcast, Experience This.
Adam:Nice Segway [crosstalk 00:36:45].
Dan:Thank you Adam. [crosstalk 00:36:48].
Exactly. You've gotten good at this. So I look at customer experience as every single interaction that a consumer has with a brand. And that can be an in person physical interaction, it can be a digital interaction, it can be be on the telephone, it could be an email, it could be on social. And one of the challenges of course that companies have is that 100 different people own 100 interactions with the customer, from the company perspective. But as a customer, we look at it really as a single interaction that we're having with a company across multiple channels. And so there in lies the challenge.
But the change to me is that is that customers today are looking to have an experience with a brand in a relationship with a brand, not just when they have a problem. So we've been talking a lot about social care, when I've got a complaint, then I need somebody to hug me and to help answer my questions. But I think that consumers now are enjoying the fact that social has given them this power that they can have a relationship with the brand in the good times as well. And so the brands that are figuring out how to have fun with their consumers, how to have an actual relationship, a human relationship with them over social and other channels, I think are the ones that are doing it really, really well.
And even if that relationship starts offline, often time those things end up coming online and that's one of the things that's been fascinating me in the last six to 12 months is looking at the things that start in an offline channel and the reasons why people decide to bring them online to talk about them and to share them. And it's usually when an experience has been either particularly good or particularly bad.
Jay Baer:That's the kind of insight you can get on the Experience This show. New Episodes every single Tuesday. Dan Gingus and Joey Coleman, who we'll talk to here in just a minute. If you haven't had a chance to listen to the show, absolutely [inaudible 00:38:52] wherever you get your podcasts, sponsored by our friends at Oracle EX.
Dan great job on the show. Always fantastic to see you, thanks for being here.
Dan:Thank you guys, always good to see you, and congratulations again, 300. We can only all hope to join you someday.
Jay Baer:Thanks [inaudible 00:39:09].
Adam:Thanks Dan.
Dan:Alright, see ya.
Jay Baer:Alright, now we're bringing in somebody who we haven't talked to for a while, but is truly one of my favorite people. An incredibly smart man. And also a famous jazz trumpeter.
Adam:I didn't know that.
Jay Baer:Oh yeah. I don't think you were on the show when we had him on the show as a guest. It is Nick Cicero.
Nick C.:Hey, how's it going?
Jay Baer:Hi friend, how are you?
Nick C.:I'm doing alright. Congratulations on 300 episodes.
Jay Baer:Thank you. When we were doing the show with Jeff Wars, and also [Zena Wiest 00:39:43] who unfortunately couldn't make it today. She had to bow out at the last minute. Nick was on the show for many of those episodes as a special contributor. Would bring cool social media ideas and examples to the show in a slightly different format, back then. And now Nick is like genius, famous, like blowing up everywhere digital superstar. Tell us exactly what you're doing now. It's amazing.
Nick C.:Yeah. So I started a company a couple years ago now in 2014 called Del Mondo, and we're a social video and audience analytics platform. And so what we've done is we started off being known for building the first analytics for SnapChat. And then say a huge gap in measuring audience consuming video, especially as television was on the decline and is now. So we've really expanded and ended up kind of creating the first analytics for Facebook Live, but now have really expanded all of those platforms. So Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Instagram Stories, YouTube. And this year we're adding all first party and OTT video platforms too. So being able to really measure your unified view of audience and video across all of these different screens and devices.
Adam:Where is all this going Nick? I think all of us can remember and [inaudible 00:41:05] back to even when Jay was starting the show nearly a decade ago. We were following followers. We were following and using likes. We were using those as real analytics to measure performance. Of course we now know those numbers met [inaudible 00:41:20]. So where do you see the industry going now Nick? What are those attributions, what are those analytics that are more meaningful to a chief marketing officer, a chief communications officer? Obviously attributable sales is a big one. But what else is in there and what are we trying to connect and what are you connecting in your organization.
Nick C.:Yeah. I think that what we have really focused on is trying to measure audiences and who they are, where they live, what they're watching. So I think a lot of people certainly can try to connect the value and direct value and there's a lot of pieces in between that puzzle. But there's a lot of insight about the amount of time that we spend on all of these platforms. So if you think about the kind of growth of social analytics, you mentioned before, V1 was our vanity of metric phase. Like, "Oh, I gotta munch of likes on this post. And I made all these posts every day." And we started to get more individual in social listening that helped us listen for signals that people were talking about. But now since a lot of the social platforms have really changed and honestly become a lot of visual video platforms.
So the majority of the content that is the highest performing on a lot of Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram's of the world. It's all video. And whilst people are certainly creating, and tweeting and commenting and reacting openly and to their friends, the content and the signals that they're sending off have really changed. So there's a lot more that we can learn about people based on what they're watching, how long they're watching for, and the different patterns and trends that emerge. So while we certainly make it really easy for you to see a unified view of all your social media accounts, and surface the videos and cool things like that, that you'd expect from a social reporting platform.
What we've actually done is add a lot of automation in terms of categorizing and textualizing all the different pieces of content inside of your videos. The different terms inside of the copy that you're using and be able to roll those up to measure different types of audiences against one another. So I like to think of one of our clients, like a Lowe's for example, from a brand side. They're producing a lot of different types of videos. Some of the videos might be all about DIY and some of the videos might be all about promotional and others might be about customer support or community engagement. And even more so today, probably now than ever before, those themes resonate differently to different types of people. And so while we put the same amount of content through the same pipes every single day, instead of just measuring a piece at a time, we really help companies think more about, how do all the DIY projects perform in social? Who are the audiences that are watching those videos? And then how is that translating to the audiences that are buying the products essentially, or watching my commercials on television, and mapping those up if you're a brand.
There's obviously a whole other world if you are a media company, which is really just about trying to understand who and what is watching on all of this different places, and then monetize as well. A lot of the media companies are looking to change the revenue and not just [inaudible 00:44:31], let's say like display advertising, or even programmatic. THere's a whole debate about whether that is valuable or not. So more advertisers are looking for branded content and content that can be created and live organically on a media company's website, or a social with influencers or publishers, but they don't just once again, want to measure the vanity metrics, they wanna know, okay great, who are the audiences from these partners that I'm working with that are now reaching this branded content, so I can use that in my marketing too.
So I think a lot of it is intelligence gathering right now that's probably more advanced I think than certainly when we started and I'm 30, but I feel like an old guy in the space and to hear that you guys are at 300 episodes, to think that I was a host back when I was working with Expion. A lot has changed and the platforms have changed a lot, and I think it's really interesting to see now just how much more people are spending on their phones, on the computer watching content than when I first started even working.
Jay Baer:Yeah. I mean video was still sort of an edge case back then. And now it's the whole thing. I wanna ask you about the announcement this week from SnapChat about allowing people to export content out of SnapChat sort of breaking down that walled garden approach. You're really close to those guys. What do you make of that move?
Nick C.:Yeah, I think that the announcement is really around official stories, I believe, discover stories and others. We work with a lot of really great partners. Some of their top brands. MTV is one of our best customers and we measure all of their SnapChat and SnapChat discover insights. And I think that for getting discoverability outside of SnapChat it'll be really, really powerful. Because there is a lot of really great content. And a lot of people have ripped it off and put it onto other platforms anyways. Or influencers that now have official profiles on SnapChat would often download their stories and upload them to Instagram. So if they're able to actually share links or send people from outside of the web into their stories, which they can do now, they can actually bring more people inside of SnapChat. The same way that you'll cross-post your Instagram story. And I think that that is gonna bring more people in. Which SnapChat has never really broken that wall and we'll see how that goes.
Jay Baer:What do you make of V2? [crosstalk 00:46:53], their gonna call it V2. Do you think there's still room in the market for six second looping clips, or do you think that that time is past.
Nick C.:I think that ... well, I think that there's always room for a great brand because when somebody would have said, "SnapChat," when I was getting started, they're like, "Oh, is SnapChat gonna last?" And it was always a joke for the first year that Del Mondo was a company. And then everybody's like, "Oh, that SnapChat thing, that SnapChat thing." And not today it's certainly competing with the other platforms and they've been able to sustain, regardless of the stock price. They have been able to maintain and grow a pretty large user base in a short period of time. So I think that Vine, when I started we were working with a lot of Vine stars and we actually had vine analytics in our platform with SnapChat as one of the first, 'cause it was really easy to measure.
So I think that there is a real appetite for that, and although Instagram certainly can get the lion's share of video consumption, there is something about the format and the community of Vine and I know that the Vine stars themselves are certainly hungry for it. And Instagram was always so much bigger to start with. So it suppressed any natural growth that I do think Vine could have had. And I also think that Twitter might have mismanaged it a little bit. And could have nurtured that a little bit more, the same way that they're doing with ParaScope. They would have a really nice ecosystem now between the three in my opinion.
Jay Baer:Yeah, it feels like Twitter's management of Vine is similar to Yahoo's management of Tumbler. [crosstalk 00:48:27]. It's just sort of like, "Yeah, we bought this cool thing. What do we do with it? Yeah, it just really never added anything to it, or took their eye off the ball or wasn't a priority or if the revenue impact wasn't really big enough to really worry about it. I'd like to be able to buy something for a billion dollars, in Tumbler's case, and then not worry about it.
Nick C.:Yeah, even in the last few weeks, you've seen that Twitter has started putting public view counts on their videos. And that's something that they had never done in the past and now they're doing that for everybody, the big and the small. The same way that Vine was doing. I don't know. I think that that ... I think that if they had integrated ParaScope so much and they killed the brand off the way that they killed Vine and said, "Oh, this is Twitter and this is all of our stuff now," I don't think the Vine community would feel as bad. But the fact that they kept ParaScope going, it's kind of a slap in the face to the Vine community. So I do think there's room for somebody to come in. [crosstalk 00:49:24]
Jay Baer:... talk more at length about what's going on with video. If you don't mind, we'll have Jess reach out and get you back out. It's been a while since we've had you on the show. I'd love to catch up.
Nick C.:I'd love to.
Jay Baer:Until then my friend, thanks for taking the time. Great to see you. Congratulations on all that's invested in Del Mondo. Ladies and gentlemen, if you are [inaudible 00:49:42] brand that cares about your video in social, you obviously do, if you are a large brand. There's literally nobody else to talk to other than Del Mondo. And that's a good thing because they are killing it. That's the place to go for video [inaudible 00:49:56] talk to Nick and his guys.
See you soon.
Adam:Thanks Nick.
Nick C.:Thanks guys. Congrats again. Take care.
Jay Baer:Thanks buddy.
Alright, we're there. This is our last guest.
Adam:Bottom of the ninth, [crosstalk 00:50:07].
Jay Baer:The 300th episode anniversary reunion tour celebration. And I cleverly, some would say strategically sets this up so our last guest is a wild man. He is a recovering attorney. He is the cohost of The Experience This Show with Dan Gingus who we saw a few minutes ago. He is the one, the only Mr. Joey [inaudible 00:50:34].
Joey:Thank you gentlemen.
Jay Baer:Joey is also a customer experience consultant, a fantastic keynote speaker. In fact, I'm gonna see you in just a few days. He and I are doing an event together on Tuesday in Toronto, ironically. We were just talking about Toronto when Randy was on a few minutes ago. And Joey is a forthcoming author. [inaudible 00:50:58] Joey.
Joey:I am a forthcoming author. I'm super excited because the book is almost done. I have about 48 hours more when I can touch it. The book comes out in April. It's called Never Lose A Customer Again. It's all about creating an awesome onboarding experience so that you can turn those one time customers into customers for life.
Jay Baer:It's such an amazing premise. I've seen you talk about it on stage. And we've had conversations about your methodology. This idea that the first 100 days of any customer relationship essentially dictates the entirety of the relationship. Tell the audience a little bit about why that's true. Why that snapshot in time is disproportionally important.
Joey:Yeah, so the research on this is absolutely incredible. And it cuts across all industries. And what the research shows is that depending on your industry somewhere between 20 and 70% of new customers will decide to quit doing business with you before the 100 day anniversary. 20 to 70% are leaving out the back door as quickly as we bring them in the front door. And the crazy thing is, most companies not only aren't doing anything to address this, but they have no idea what percentage of their customers are actually leaving. And so when we start to look at it and they realize, "Oh my gosh, we're spending all this time money and effort on acquisition, filling the funnel, driving clicks and conversions," to then not be able to actually maximize their returns, they're actually losing money on every new customer they acquire and it causes huge problems.
What's really cool is the research also shows that if you can get a customer today 101, in the typical business they'll stay for five years. So this time period is absolutely insane in terms of the impact it has on lifetime value. And if you get the onboarding experience right in those first 100 days, you cement the relationship, you build loyal fans, you build zealous advocates, and your business really can go in the direction that you want it to go, instead of hemorrhaging out the back.
Jay Baer:Fascinating. Two points on this. One point and one question.
Adam:One point is, why the hell has nobody ever thought about this before? We have talked for decades about the first 100 days of an employee, an employee [crosstalk 00:53:17]. We never talk about that as it is a customer. So that's interesting. Number two, I would mark this down the street from where I live, we had a new filling station open up. And the first day I'm in there and everyday since then, they've subsequently been asking me to become a member of their plenty program or whatever it is, some loyalty program. And it drives me nuts. 'Cause I'm like, "I haven't even gotten to know you guys yet."
So my question is, when is the right time to ask for that relationship? Just like, "Hey, I want you to become a loyal next time customer." Is it right after that first one, or do you need to see other triggers or tells?
Joey:Yeah, you definitely need to wait Adam. And this is probably the most common mistake I see with companies asking for referrals, is they ask to early. I liken this stuff to dating. Imagine you go on a first date with someone, you have an incredible dinner, it's a fabulous meal, the conversation is flowing, everything's feeling good. And you take them home at the end of the night to their house and you're standing on the doorstep and you say, "Hey, I had a great time tonight, what about you?" And they say, "Yeah I did." And you say, "Awesome, can we do this again next week?" And they say, "Yeah I'd love to." You say, "Fantastic. By the way, you mentioned over dinner that you have two roommates. My gut instinct is they are of a similar demographic of you, similar age, gender, etc. Would you be willing to give me their contact information because if you like me, chances are that they will like me just as much. Let's make this happen."
You'd get slapped on the front step. And yet that's how most businesses operate. As soon as there in the like, we're just getting the date started, next thing you know, we're asking for referrals, we're asking for loyalty, we're asking for a commitment. It's like asking somebody to marry you before you've ordered desert on the first date. Not usually a recipe for success. So I always say, "If you wouldn't do it in your personal life, why are we doing it in our professional lives?" We need to wait. The trigger you're looking for is anytime someone does business with you, they have a goal in mind that they're trying to accomplish. This is one of the eight phases I talk about in the book. The phase of accomplishment. Where they actually achieve the goal that they had from day one, when they first said, "I wanna hire you to do my taxes, to record my video, to paint my house," whatever it is, they had a goal.
You can't ask for a referral until they accomplish the goal. Period.
Adam:Good one.
Joey:It's that simple. You just have to wait. Wait until they accomplish the goal. Now some of you that work in larger enterprise businesses may say, well, their goal is to increase sales and that's kind of hard to tell." You know what, it's you job to ask them, "Well, by what number would we start to feel good about this? If we increase sales by 10%, do you feel good, or does it have to be 20%?" Because if the answers 20 and you think is 10 is the accomplishment, and you start asking for new business at the 10% increase, even though you've done wonderful things for their business, they don't feel accomplished. And if they don't feel accomplished, they're not gonna become an advocate.
Jay Baer:Do you feel like you have to overtly ask for that advocacy? Or if you've hit that threshold, will they take it upon themselves to advocate on your behalf?
Joey:I think nine times out of 10, they'll actually advocate on your behalf. You don't even have to ask for it. What you do need to do is remind them that they've accomplished the goal. That's what they forget. They forget what the original goal was. They change it. So you don't have to say, give me more business. You just say, "Hey, by the way, remember that first date we were on, and you said the goal was to get to a third date. Guess what it's the third date." "Oh my gosh it's amazing, do, do, do." Now you get to have a fourth one. So it's all about making sure that they ... you have to know what the goal is they're trying to accomplish, and then you have to feed it back to them once they actually achieve that goal. Not because they're being obtuse or they're trying to avoid you, or be difficult. They just forget. They get into it and they get caught up with other things.
All of us in business have a tendency to think that our customers, that they're spending this huge amount of time thinking about us. They're not. They have other things going on in their life. The heater's not working, the kid's getting bad grades in school, the relationship with their spouse in on the rocks, they haven't called their mom when they were supposed to. They've got all these other things that are contributing and we have a tendency as business people to think, well surely they've been thinking all about our project and how it's going. No, the only time they think about the project, usually, is when we're in front of them. Whether that's through an email or a phone call or a face to face interaction. So cut 'em some slack and recognize that, yeah, they need to be reminded from time to time about what the process is and what the goal we're trying to accomplish is.
Jay Baer:That partial attention issue is really prominent I think in social media. Because you have people who work in social media in companies, i.e., the guests on this show typically, they're doing social all the time. That is their world. And I think sometimes you [inaudible 00:58:10] into this sort of myopia where you think, "Well, social is the entire marketing and communications infrastructure for this company. And you sort of lost sight of the fact, "Well we're also doing email, and we're doing print and we're doing telephone and we're doing an events strategy," like social is like a tiny little piece of the entirety of the marketing and communications program in most companies. And it's easy to forget that. When all you're thinking about every day is social media.
Joey:Absolutely. And I think ... and you know my opinions on social media Jay. I'm not really shy about them. I'm the guy who [crosstalk 00:58:43].
Yeah. It's weird that we're ending on me. We save the best for last, no. We save the [crosstalk 00:58:48].
Jay Baer:Put the skeptic on last.
Joey:Save the skeptic for last who has like seven followers on Twitter and only people he's actually met as friends on Facebook and things like that. Here's the deal. We have a tendency ... and this applies to every business. Whether you are a lawyer, a doctor, a bottle washer. I don't care who you are, what your job is. You see the world from your lens. And social media folks have a tendency to see the world from the lens of social media that everybody's on social media all the time. Go hangout at a diner or in a retail establishment somewhere in a town with less than 25,000 people. And you will see that not everybody is on their phone tweeting. Not everybody is liking stuff, right? I think many of us, I'll speak for myself, have this because of the circles we run in, we create this belief that, "Oh, well, everybody's doing this and their doing it all the time." No they're not.
So I think that's something, everybody that's in social media could stand to remember, that yeah, there is a group of your customers that are really immersed in this stuff. But I guarantee there are huge swaths of your customers that aren't even on these platforms, let alone communicating with you.
Jay Baer:Thanks for being here [inaudible 01:00:04].
Joey:Thanks guys, it was my pleasure. Congrats on the 300th episode and thanks for having me on.
Jay Baer:Appreciate it, we'll see you soon.
Jay Baer:Adam, we did it.
Adam:Oh my friend we did.
Jay Baer:We absolutely accomplished it. This has been-
Adam:What a week.
Jay Baer:... such a ... yeah what a great time. Thank you so much for hanging in there and just a huge, huge important part of the show. Thanks to Jess and [inaudible 01:00:25] and all of our guests. Like many, many, many years. And of course we've got lots more coming up. We're not stopping at 300. The train is moving.
Adam:[crosstalk 01:00:34].
Jay Baer:Keep on rolling, catch you next week.
Adam:You got it.
Jay Baer:Next week we can be doing this show again wearing a robe, instead of having to wear a sport coat every time.
Adam:No more dress up, yeah.
Jay Baer:Yeah back to audio.
Thanks everybody. See you soon.
Adam:[inaudible 01:00:45].
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