How to Use Authenticity to Become an Iconic Business

How to Use Authenticity to Become an Iconic Business

Scott McKain, Founder and CEO of Distinction Institute, joins the Social Pros Podcast to discuss how authenticity connects to being an iconic business.

In This Episode:

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Full Episode Details

Stop Selling to Become an Iconic Business!

Stop selling. That is Scott McKain’s answer to how you can turn your brand into an iconic business. If that made you stop and scratch your head, no one’s blaming you.

However, Scott isn’t saying that you need to stop selling products to be an iconic business, but rather that your interactions with customers should stop revolving around closing a sale. Brands that become truly iconic do so by building an emotional connection with their customers.

When you shift your focus from selling to connecting, you can start to build a true, emotional loyalty among your customers that drives them to become evangelists for your brand.

In This Episode

  • 03:18 – How to define an iconic business.
  • 06:21 – How to measure your brand’s distinctiveness.
  • 09:05 – Why you should stop selling.
  • 15:11 – How to use social to achieve distinction.
  • 24:31 – How to encourage consumers to talk about your business through social.

Quotes From This Episode

“Distinction is when you separate yourself from your industry competition. Iconic is when you become recognized as extraordinary across any field.” — @scottmckain

“You can become distinctive and not be iconic, but you can’t become iconic without being distinctive.” — @scottmckain

Things that are distinctive, and organizations that reach the iconic level, create significant emotional connectivity in the marketplace. Click To Tweet


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Episode Transcript

Scott McKain: 00:00 There is no loyalty without emotion. There is no loyalty without connectivity. I mean, why would I be loyal to something towards which I have no feeling? Jay Baer: 00:08 Welcome everybody to Social Pros, the podcast for real people doing real work in social media. I am, as always Jay Baer, founder of Convince & Convert. And joined, as always by my very special Texas friend. He is the executive strategist for Salesforce Marketing Cloud. It is the one, the only, Adam Brown. What a show this week. Adam Brown: 00:27 What a show! Scott McKain, I know someone very close to you, professionally as well as personally, an excellent, excellent, insightful podcast on distinction, which is a term, as we note in the podcast, that we use and we kinda know what it means, but what Scott does is he really helps us define what that is and how we improve it. Jay Baer: 00:49 One of the things we use social media for is to help our businesses stand out. And what you're going to hear from Scott McKain this episode is how the best organizations are not only just distinctive, but they become iconic. They become a category of one, and some really inspirational stuff on this week's show as well, about authenticity and human connection and social media. Big shout out to Chris Brogan as well. You're going to like this episode of The Social Pros podcast, featuring Scott McKain, author of the new book, ICONIC. Hey friends, thanks so much for listening. Before we get to this week's episode, a quick acknowledgement of our sponsors, including our friends at Salesforce Marketing Cloud who have produced and published The Complete Guide to Social Media for B2B Marketers. It reveals the best types of content for each segment of your audience, shows you how to maximize effectiveness for B2B marketers on Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest, and even Snapchat. Download it right now, you'll be glad you did. Go to bitly/socialb2bguide. That's and that's all lower case. Also this week's Social Pros is brought to you by ICUC. Everybody feels like they might need a more data driven of an approach to developing social strategy. Good advice. But even if you have some data to build your 2019 marketing plan, maybe you need to feel more confident. Maybe you need to feel more informed. ICUC can help you make those data driven decisions that power your 2019 social strategy. They can help you develop reports using social media strategic insights. They give you deep understanding of your audience, your market, and your competitors. Really interesting stuff. Check it out. No obligation, no cost. Go to I-C-U-C, that's the letters, It's not .com, it's .social.,, and now this weeks Social and Pros Podcast. Scott McKain, founder and CEO of Distinction Institute, and one of my favorite people on the planet. Welcome to the Social Pros Podcast. Scott McKain: 03:08 I'm glad to be leveled to that pro level now Jay. Thank you. Jay Baer: 03:12 That's right. Scott McKain: 03:12 It's a privilege. It's always cool to be guest on something that you watch and listen to, so thanks for having me. [crosstalk 00:03:19] Jay Baer: 03:18 Well, we had social amateurs podcast but we couldn't get you on that one either, so we're delighted to be here. You are the author of a number of books, but your most recent book is truly spectacular, it's called ICONIC, and it's a gorgeous book by the way I really love the packaging of it, the subtitle of ICONIC says it all, "How organizations and leaders attain, sustain, and regain the ultimate level of distinction." What do you mean by that? The ultimate level of distinction? Scott McKain: 03:48 Jay it really came out of work that I did with a client who went through my previous book Create Distinction, and what that really was about was how to separate yourself from the competition in the marketplace. And they said, " You know, we kind of done that, we think that we're better than our competitors, but yet we want to continue to improve and continue to grow." And it struck me a couple things one is, I'd written the book about how you do that, but not how you keep it or how you get it back if you've lost it. But the second thing is, I think in today's world, and research that we've done out of research that I've seen, shows that customers don't evaluate us on an industry specific basis. They evaluate us against their totality of experiences that they've had. I wrote about that a decade ago in my book What Customers Really Want. So same should apply here and so my definition then is, distinction is when you separate yourself from your industry competition. Iconic becomes when you become recognized as extraordinary across any field. So in other words, you're not just my favorite retailer to buy X, you become my favorite place to buy anything. Jay Baer: 04:59 Do you feel like attention and being iconic go hand in hand? Can you be iconic without being really terrific at gaining and keeping attention? Scott McKain: 05:11 No I don't think that's possible. You can become iconic, I sound like my logic professor in college, but you can become distinctive and not be iconic. You can stand out in your own field, but you can't become iconic without being distinctive. In other words you have to first attain that high level in your industry, before you could ever hope to transcend it. And so that's the process, you create distinction and stand out in your own industry, and then when you continue that level of excellence you can achieve it across a wide berth. Jay Baer: 05:44 What I think is remarkable about distinction is that we all kind of know what that means, but as marketers we oftentimes want to measure something, we want to make it analytical. And we've got from a brand standpoint we have brand value index, we have net promoter score, we have all these numbers that we can use to kind of associate, and put us in a pecking order next to other brands, next to other corporations. How does that work with distinction? Is there any way that we can tangibly measure how distinctive our brand, our person, our corporation, our organization is? Scott McKain: 06:21 Yeah that is a hard thing to quantify but Adam I think, one of the first places that we look's repeat and referral business. It's part of what, you folks do such an excellent job talking about what talk triggers, and that is, if I'm distinctive then people are coming back to buy from me again, and people are referring me in the marketplace. And so what we find is the distinctive organizations not only have repeat customers, but those repeat customers come back more frequently, and their purchasing level is enhanced. So I'm not just coming back, buying the same thing over, and over, and over. I'm coming back more often, and I'm buying more from you. So when we evaluate those two levels, the repeat and referral business, that to me seems to be the leading indicators in terms of distinctive organizations. In recorded history, regardless of what the industry is, in recorded history no customer has ever said, "Man I love where I do business, they're exactly like everybody else." So what we find is when there's more reasons, and you're providing them with more things that they should be doing with you, then they come back and do more. And that's one of the ultimate signs of distinction and the iconic level. Jay Baer: 07:27 So there is pretty good correlation with loyalty and distinction, yes? Scott McKain: 07:32 Yeah absolutely. Those things that are distinctive, and those organizations that reach the iconic level create significant emotional connectivity in the marketplace. There is no loyalty without emotion, there is no loyalty without connectivity. Why would I be loyal to something towards which I have no feeling? So what these organizations become extraordinary at doing, and what these leaders do internally with their own teams, is to create very significant levels of emotional interaction and emotional connectivity. Interestingly enough, that's true whether it's B to B or a B to C organization. Jay Baer: 08:07 Is social media one of the ways that iconic brands can amplify or deepen that emotional connection? Scott McKain: 08:15 Well I think personalizing it is absolutely critical. Being responsive is absolutely critical. I [inaudible 00:08:21] and this is my very unscientific response to this, but Jay I noticed that the organizations that I follow most are the organizations with which I feel a personal connection. It's not that they're selling, they're stacking them deep and selling them cheap and here's 10% off this weekend, it's that they tell stories through social media, so I feel this personal connectivity. There are so many examples that you've cited over the years of organizations that absolutely cut through the clutter because they're able to put a, almost a feeling, a face to what they do. And so when we do that in social media it emphasizes the social aspect of it, rather than just the price and promotion aspect. Jay Baer: 09:05 Even to put a finer point on that, in your book, which is absolutely tremendous, Scott McKain author of ICONIC is joining us this week from the Social Pros podcast, just an exceptionally good book. So well written, and so of the times. One of the things that you say in the book specifically Scott, is that people should stop selling. That if you want to be an iconic brand, you have to stop selling. And that is, on the surface, a very interesting piece of advice. How do you mean by that? That feels like, not a good idea for any organization. Scott McKain: 09:40 Yeah well, I say in the first paragraph obviously we have to continue closing transactions to survive, regardless of whether we're talking about a corporate behemoth, or whether we're talking about a small business like many of us have. We have to conclude transactions, but typically what we've thought of as selling, think of the terms that we use, we talk about closing the sale. Well if I have a personal tragedy in my life, what do I seek? I seek closure. Closure is about the, really? Is that what we want with our clients? We want them to seek closure? We talk about overcoming objections, like my questions are something you need to overcome? Even much of the language that we've used in sales has been about, we're going to beat the customer we're going to find a way to defeat ... We use all these military, or sports terms about victory and that's just not the world today. Those rules were written when there were two major exceptions. Number one, we had the information, not the customer. And secondly, an alternative meant excessive effort. In other words, if I'm talking to that customer right now, if I can twist their arm into buying from me, it also saves them the extraordinary effort of driving across town, or finding another supplier. Well both of those are gone, the customer has as much information as we do. The way that they do business with an alternative is not excessively inconvenient. And so what we have to do is to understand we've got to change the way we look at this. And what we need to do is to stop selling, and start thinking in terms of relationship building, in terms of the experiences that we deliver, so that what we're looking for is the lifetime value, not the instant transaction. Jay Baer: 11:22 Scott another differentiator I think, or distinction in how we market today and sell today, you actually hit in your subhead of your book. Where you say, "ICONIC is around how organizations and leaders attain, sustain, and regain the ultimate level of distinction." Meaning that distinction and being an icon is quite fleeting, more fleeting than it maybe used to be? Scott McKain: 11:47 Yeah the opening story of the book, spoiler alert, here's the opening story of the book. It's the CEO of an organization that was founded in the mid 1800s and was incredibly successful and was very diversified, and the CEO begins is sitting at a press conference and he sees all the employees crying, and he's tearful, and it's when the CEO of Nokia announced they were being acquired by Microsoft. And his famous line is, "We didn't do anything wrong." I mean, I'm sorry, part of me [crosstalk 00:12:26] this story, is that how do you blow up something that's been so enormously successful, and then say you didn't do anything wrong? I mean, something went wrong, somewhere. Something had to happen. And that, Adam, speaks to the transitory nature of that kind of success, for every Amazon, there's been a Sears. For every Starbucks, there's been a HoJoe's. For every market leader that we seen, there's been a previously distinctive organization that somehow lost its way. Jeff Bezos was quoted the other day telling his employees someday Amazon will implode, our job is to delay that as long as possible. I think it's very interesting... Jay Baer: 13:06 That's one way to rally the troops! Get them real fired up. Scott McKain: 13:08 Totally. This concludes the motivation. Jay Baer: 13:10 We're all gonna die! We're all gonna die. Scott McKain: 13:12 (laughs) Interestingly enough, it's probably true. Who knows when it's gonna be, but somebody's gonna come along and disrupt Amazon. The question is, how as leaders do we sustain the level of iconic nature distinction we had, and that becomes part of the challenge, we're so emot- not just economically, which is you know, all of the brilliant work of Clayton Christiansen, but we're also emotionally invested in what we're already doing, and it becomes very, very difficult for us to get it back once we've lost it, because we want to work harder on the old plan, rather than try to create a new one Jay Baer: 13:51 Can any business or any brand become iconic if all the lessons in the book- is it achievable by all? Or only achievable by a few? Obviously recognizing that you have to be distinctive first but that being the case, is this something that anybody can say, "You know what? We could make that happen if we played our cards right." Scott McKain: 14:10 That's a great question, Jay. I think we all could, but we all won't, right? It's like, can everybody be great, yes, but few will be. That's why in the book I really try to avoid the examples of Apple, and Amazon, and Google, and Southwest Airlines and Starbucks, that we hear so much. I talk in there about a multi-millionaire chimney sweep in Nashville who followed this process who just owns the marketplace and is used as an example by other home-based businesses of what they can do different- to me that's iconic, because other, smaller entrepreneurs in Nashville use Mark Stoner as an example of, "Here's how you build a business. Here's how you set it up. We're not the same business, but he's iconic. Let's look at him." Or they recommend and refer him, what you talk about and talked here so excessively. That becomes the goal, yes we can all achieve it by following these principles, but what we know is few will invest the time and the effort and the intellectual capital to make it happen. Adam Brown: 15:11 Scott McKain, it is so great to have you on the show, you foundered CEO of Distinction Institute and author of ICONIC: How Organizations and Leaders Attain, Sustain, and Regain the Ultimate Level of Distinction. Scott, I want to go introspective at this moment, you are a speaker, like Jay, you are an author like Jay and I'm curious how you continue to become iconic using social media. What do you do in terms of analyzing your performance in social media, or looking at other authors and speakers to understand how do I better myself? How do I leverage social so that I can continue on the trajectory that obviously you have established and continue to establish. Scott McKain: 15:53 I appreciate that and great question. I know this sounds like what I'm supposed to say right now but I've learned so much from watching what you folks do and what Jay does as a good friend that one of the things that I admire so much and I've tried to emulate is the ability as we talked about earlier to personalize. I've got a lot to learn in terms of social media but it's worked very well for my business and for what I do. But what I find is that a lot of folks and Jay, you've seen it as well in business, they wanna promote their product or their service, they don't want to engage in terms of having a dialogue. It's easy to have a monologue, it's easy for me to just bog out there, here's 47 quotes from my latest book, but what I really wanna do is let people kinda see some of my personal life, as well as my professional life. I wanna answer specific questions that they have. I had somebody post on LinkedIn not long ago, you know they only found one thing where I was criticizing one business and it let me down and we had a great response back and forth because what I'm saying is that if you look at my tweets it's about ten to one positive as opposed to negative, but if I don't post negative, then to me it erodes the trust that you're gonna have in the positive. So I think what we have to do, and as corny as it sounds, as overused as it sounds, aim is to get back to the social aspect of social media. It is a way for us to be real and to communicate and to be authentic and to have conversations with people who otherwise we wouldn't have the opportunity to connect with them, and I've found that the more that I do that, the more effective social media becomes for me. Adam Brown: 17:32 Scott, you're really good at going live on social, and talking to people, and answering questions, and hearing what's going on, and being very approachable. In the moment, you're really, really good at it and keep it up, it's pretty terrific. The one- Scott McKain: 17:48 See the other thing I neglected to mention I've learned to use is consistency. For example going on every Sunday at eight o'clock. They have to know that there is- Jay Baer: 17:57 Gotta be a show. Has to be a show. Scott McKain: 18:01 The funny thing is that one of the things I've noticed is that when I- I've stopped doing it for a little bit because of some travel overseas and stuff like that and I realized what that happened was there were a lot of people who they didn't watch Sunday at eight o'clock, but they knew that they could watch a replay later on because they knew I would be on Sunday at eight o'clock. And as silly as that sounds that something diluted was the consistency is not only for the people that watch it live, but the consistency is for the people who will watch the replay later knowing that you will always be there with content and information. And, man, I've learned that from you folks is... Jay Baer: 18:33 And probably the number one thing that we're working with our clients now on the consulting side of commit to convert, and Adam feels the same way, in fact we just had a meeting about it this morning, is stop being random acts of content. It just doesn't work. It's an inefficient and expensive way to reach nobody. It has to be a show. And whatever you're doing has to be wrapped up in a repeatable show, it just makes all the difference in the world. There you go, ladies and gentle, Sundays, 8 p.m., Scott McKain... Scott McKain: 19:04 And the other thing too, Jay this came out in the business we have with Comcast in Philadelphia, you were still kind of inviting me along to be a part of that long ago was, I think part of what we have to look at to is how we use social media and how we invite our customer to respond to us via social media. In other words, part of what I've learned is I wanna hear everything in terms of social media. If they liked the speech, if they didn't like the speech. If they liked the book, if they didn't like the book. Had a conversation not long ago who was critical of the book, come to find out what they didn't like was what we were just talking about. They said, "You can't say stop selling. I'm in sales and don't tell me to stop selling." Once we had more of a conversation about it he was like, "Oh, by the way I liked the book, it was just that one thing." Well if you don't engage people then you don't get to that point, and that's really, really critical is- I don't want to be on there deleting negative comments, and I don't want to hear about don't feed the trolls, but it's pretty easy to determine who's a troll and whose someone with a valid opposite response to what you're saying or a disagreement. I want to engage the people that disagree, I don't wanna engage the trolls, but I wanna engage the people that disagree, and you know what? I've got valuable content that I can use in future books and speeches from most popple who had disagreed with me. You've got to continue to learn, you've gotta continue to get that kind of information Someone once said, "Hug your haters". Very, very brilliant observation. Jay: 20:31 Over and over and over. Yes, indeed. Adam? Adam: 20:34 Scott, you've used some words on the show today that are near and dear to both Jay and my heart. You used the word authenticity, you've talked about genuineness, and how critical those things are. One of the things I've also heard you speak about and quote is Chris Rogen, been on the show and certainly a friend of the show and his comment around Twitter being bots talking to bots. My question for you sir is, have we as marketers and social media pros kind of shot ourselves in the foot with this platform and social in general? Is this the era of social spam, or is this the opportunity for shrewd marketers and communicators to take advantage of this and to over end some of the things we were just talking about here? Scott McKain: 21:21 I really think its the latter of those two, Adam. I gotta tell you a quick Chris Rogen story that illustrates that. Adam: 21:28 Yeah. Scott McKain: 21:29 Several years ago i released a book called "Collapse of Distinction", this was a decade, ten years ago. Didn't know Chris, I knew who he is but I didn't know him and the publisher sent him a copy of the book and he gave it a, "nah" review. One of the things he said in the review was that it was perhaps the worst cover that he has ever seen on any book in history, okay? So I had a lesson that I learned- Adam: 22:00 Go to to see an example of the Collapse of Distinction [crosstalk 00:22:02] Scott McKain: 22:05 I got fired from a job in high school and my dad told me some of the greatest advice I'd ever heard. He said, "You should write the owner of the company and thank him." And I'm like, why would I thank him? The manager fired me. And he said, "Well, because the owner of the company has hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in his business and he let a teenager work there. And you want to just say thanks." And I wrote and the response that I got from the owner, and then the future job opportunity I got from the owner was really, really impactful when I was a kid. So I contacted Chris and I said, "Hey, part of what I appreciate was it was obvious that from the review that you read the book and although any author would love a great review, I'm honored that you read the book and that you seriously invested time into it." And by the way here's a quick story, David Hathaway who at that time was the book buyer for business books for Barnes and Noble said he hated the cover too, so I said to him, "Would you help us design a better cover?" and no one had ever asked him that before. And I'm shocked, right? He buys more business books than anybody in the world at that point, so he helped us design the cover. So I sent Chris a copy of the new cover and told him that story, well Chris did this incredible piece about that. And that sold more books for me than anything else that I did. Was Chris Rogen writing this story about me saying, "Hey." to a customer, "help me design what you want to sell." And it pointed out exactly what you're talking about Adam, is that if you're authentic, and if you reach out to people, even the ones that disagree with you or that give you a moderate review there's a way that we can connect in social media that transcends other forms of media. Is it bots talking to bots as Chris said? Yeah, it is. It has evolved into that to some degree but I think that even makes the opportunity greater for those of us who will reach out, who are authentic and who will create these kinds of connections that transcend transactions. When we do that we can really leverage social media to make some extraordinary things happen. Adam Brown: 24:17 This episode brought to you by Hug Your Haters by [inaudible 00:24:21]. Well to make sure if Brogan listens to this one we'll tag him in the social media promotion for the show. Scott McKain: 24:27 Yeah he still doesn't like what I write but he's a good [inaudible 00:24:30]. Adam Brown: 24:31 It's such a great point and again the persistenceness and the evergreen nature of everything that we do put in social media, the Internet never forgets is I think another interesting part to remember there. Scott one other kind of question for you kind of around what you do personally as a speaker and as an author and as a strategist. I like how you talk about how social really isn't the end all be all for you, that you're using social media in many instances to get your audience to pick up and read and be aware of your books that perhaps will lead to additional book sales that may lead to then speeches and professional engagements. Jay and I were lucky last week to have a Alisa Gammon from Purple Mattress on and one of the things we spoke to her about was the fact that really a person only buys a mattress one out of every 10 years so they've got to really have this nurturing aspect and recognize that there are some people who are going to buy now, many who are going to buy later. Sounds like your philosophy for using social for the book buyer versus you having you come in and be a presenter or a speaker is much the same way. Scott McKain: 25:33 You're exactly right. I mean if I can get them interested in the conversation about what I'm interested in it enhances the likelihood that they might read a blog or listen to a podcast or whatever. Well if they do then it might enhance likelihood to buy a book or it might enhance ... I'm all about how do you enhance the likelihood that people will talk about you. And to me that's the operating phrase for us. How do we enhance the likelihood, can we enhance the likelihood that they will be interested in a book or a blogger's feeds. Many years ago one of the first features I gave when I was starting the business that really made an impact was for a company that makes church organs which meant that the purchase was probably once in a lifetime. And the whole business was can they be better at being so good with church A that church A would go out and make certain that anytime any other church in the community needed an organ that they would be the one that they would think of. And so there wasn't going to be repeat business in the lifetime of the salesperson. I'd never encountered a company like that. But the whole thing was how could we increase the likelihood that church A was so thrilled with their organ that they had purchased from this company that they would either tell other churches or other churches would be so envious that now they would seek that out. And I love that phrase, "What do we do to increase the likelihood?" Jay: 27:00 If you're the church organist you know who you hang out with? The other church organists. For sure. That's your posse right. Scott McKain: 27:06 Yeah totally. Jay: 27:07 And so that is a good word of mouth story right there. Scott McKain: 27:11 Exactly. Jay: 27:12 Scott's new book is Iconic. I cannot recommend it to you highly enough. You are going to love it. It's a really really smart take on how organizations and frankly individuals can transcend their own categories and really become the one that everybody looks to. Scott I really appreciate you putting the book together and thanks for being on the show. I'm gonna ask you the two questions that we've asked everybody here. This is the episode 347 I believe of Social Pros. And so we have a body of knowledge on these two questions. We'll see how you do. The first question for you Mr. Scott McKain is if you could give somebody one tip, somebody who wants to become a social pro, what would you tell them? Scott McKain: 27:54 Authenticity is the key. Don't worry about the formats or the typical things that we hear about it, personalize everything you do. Make it so that people know that it's you [inaudible 00:28:08]. I get something on LinkedIn every day from somebody that wants to tweet as me. I don't want anybody tweeting as me. And there are organizations that frankly if you're IBM or Marriott or somebody you need somebody do that. I get that. But what you have to establish is the authenticity. That transcends everything. The more personal and authentic you can make it the more that you drive relationships online. Jay: 28:33 Too true. Too true. Scott last question for you. If you could do a video call with any living person who would it be? I'm interested to see what you come up with here because you know a lot of people, you've interacted with a lot of famous folks out there. You're a legendary Hall of Fame keynote speaker, one of my cherished mentors. I literally would not be here without Mr. Scott McKain. So thank you my friend for everything. So I'm fascinated to see what you're going to say here. Scott McKain: 29:04 As strange as this may sound it would be Bill Gates. I would love to have a conversation with Bill Gates on a couple of different issues. One is philanthropy. How has it changed your life in terms of the impact that you can have as opposed to building a company. Second thing I'd be really interested in is is how ... part of what we see so often in business is that the person that founds ... Marshall Goldsmith wrote the seminal book What Got you Here Won't Get you There. We see so many organizations that reach a particular level and the founder is not the right person to take them to the next level. And how extraordinary that Bill Gates was to start this little business, make it into this behemoth. How do you have the skills to do not only be the tiny little startup but to lead this visionary organization? I'm not the hugest fan of Microsoft but there's just so many levels I would love to explore about how did you change yourself to be prepared to meet those changing challenges. Jay: 30:06 That's what your next book should be. Interviews and profiles of individuals who have gone from startup to billion dollar company and ran it themselves all the way through. Because I'll bet you there's some really interesting commonalities amongst that small group of people because you're exactly right. A lot of folks are good at starting companies and they can run it to a certain size. I am a person like that. As long as this company can be managed by Post- It-Note, I'm your man. Beyond that right my method falls apart. So that's why I don't run big companies. I'm really good at running small companies. There are a few people, very few, who can take it from nothing and turn it into something colossal. And yeah there you go. That's what it should be called. Scott McKain: 30:48 I love that idea. Jay: 30:50 The Billion dollar startup, lessons from the few people who can take something from nothing to something. Scott McKain: 30:56 I would love that. Jay: 30:58 There's my idea. Adam what do you think? Adam Brown: 30:59 Heard it hear first. Jay: 31:00 Well Marc Benioff. Adam Brown: 31:03 And masterful from he and Parker Harris starting it in an apartment too now as we hit almost 40,000 employees just 18 years later. Scott McKain: 31:14 Isn't that amazing? Jay: 31:15 Adam's boss. Adam's boss's boss's boss's boss or whatever that would be. Scott McKain: 31:18 And how do you keep your finger on the pulse of the customer that you knew so well when you launched the company but now everything about it takes you further away from really what excited you at the very beginning. And I'd be fascinated by that. Jay: 31:35 And I think if you were to ask Marc he would say that what you just said Scott is the most important thing, that you have to be focused on the customer and not focused on yourselves and that's something that we heard Jeff Bezos as you mentioned earlier mentioned as he said that "Amazon will go bankrupt. We just have to prevent it from happening now." Scott McKain: 31:53 Yeah absolutely. Jay: 31:54 Scott thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. Adam I really appreciate it. Congratulations on another spectacular book. Ladies and gentlemen, it's called Iconic. You can find it in all the places and ways that books can be procured. I personally recommend the audiobook read to you by the soothing tones of Mr. Scott McKain. He's got the pipes. Scott McKain: 32:14 [crosstalk 00:32:14] yes. Jay: 32:15 Yes yes yes. You get yourself a little glass of bourbon. [crosstalk 00:32:18] Glass of bourbon, a fireplace and Iconic on audiobook and you got yourself the makings of a hell of an evening ladies and gentlemen. That's good. Scott McKain: 32:27 Right into a coma just like that. Jay: 32:28 Right, that's just it. Don't read it in the hot tub. You can listen to the highlights of this interview, last week show with Alisa Gammon from Purple as Adam mentioned and every single episode going back eight years of this podcast. If you go to we have every episode, we have all the written transcripts, we've got all that sponsorship stuff that we talk about, all kinds of extra fun stuff as well. is your friend in the business. On behalf of Adam Brown from Salesforce Marketing Cloud. I am Jay Baer, founder of Convince and Convert. This has been what I hope is your favorite podcast of Social Pros, the podcast for real people doing real work in social media. We'll be back next week with another fantastic guest. Until then thanks so much for listening. PART 3 OF 3 ENDS [00:33:10]  
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