How to Track Social Media Better With Bitly and Link Management

How to Track Social Media Better with Bitly and Link Management

Mark Josephson, CEO at Bitly, joins the Social Pros Podcast to discuss link management and how it can drastically improve your business’ bottom line.

In This Episode:

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Full Episode Details

Use Your Links Wisely

How to Track Social Media Better with Bitly and Link ManagementWhether in a movie or a tv show, or maybe even as the setup for a joke, you’ve probably become familiar with the archetypal conflict of the artist vs. the CEO.

It’s an ageless cliche that pits the creative mind against the business mind, the aesthetic against the practical. There seems to be an impression that these things are elemental opposites and it would take a wizard to magically bring the two together.

This is where Bitly CEO Mark Josephson steps in and drops some serious knowledge. With Bitly not only is there a beautiful way to transform ugly, cumbersome links into attractively branded statements, but there is a myriad of benefits that your business can gain from utilizing them.

According to Mark, business is about increasing the bottom line, and the most efficient way to do that is to learn your customer. Through Bitly he has created a way to personalize and streamline the customer experience, saving you time and money, all while strengthening your brand.

In This Episode

  • How Bitly’s approach to marketing helped them grow from a simple idea to a global enterprise
  • The importance of creating a unique and streamlined customer experience
  • How shorter links strengthen branding while saving time and money

Quotes From This Episode

“We’ve got a product that really works and works a lot. It does exactly what it says it’s going to do.” – @markjosephson

“One of the most important things that’s happening right now is the shift from companies being the most important in the equation to the individual being the most important.” – @markjosephson

“The average phone is tapped 2,600 times a day. So what we do is we turn those taps into a powerful tool for our customers.” – @markjosephson

“Whether you’re two people or 200,000 people, you’ve gotta reach your customers where they’re clicking, tapping, swiping, or scrolling.” – @markjosephson

“It's never been a better or worse time to be a marketer because the opportunities are so endless, the creativity is so open.” Click To Tweet

“If Bitly went down, the whole world would know, and we think about that every single day.” – @markjosephson


See you next week!

Get a Behind-the-Scenes Tour of the Social Media Operations at Sam's Club

In this 5-episode social media Deep Dive, you'll learn how the busy team at Sam's Club operates their social media strategy. Meet 5 different team members and find out how Sam's Club uses social across their entire business. All 5 episodes are available now, so get ready to binge! Listen to episode 1 of the Sam’s Club Deep Dive now.

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Episode Transcript

Jay Baer: Welcome everybody to Social Pros, the podcast for real people doing real work in social media. I am as always Jay Baer, founder of Convince and Convert. Joined as always by my special Texas friend, he's from Austin, at least currently. He is the executive strategist of Salesforce Marketing Cloud. He is the one, the only, Mr. Adam Brown. Adam Brown: Jay, it is great to be here. Great to have you on the show. I know you are on the road. We were just kind of getting setup with technology. Tell everybody where you are. Jay Baer: I am in West Virginia today, which is not one of the places that I typically give presentations. But it is just gorgeous here, especially this time of year. All kinds of leaves out the window. I'm in the part of the state near Pittsburgh, so very hilly and gorgeous, things like that. It's pretty fantastic, it's nice to be here. Adam Brown: It's a beautiful time to be in the Appalachia. I was in the Smokey Mountains just a couple weeks ago and I think I missed the leaves, you're getting to see them. So please enjoy them for the both of us. Jay Baer: Will do. And we have, talk about enjoyable, I'm so fired up about our guest this week. Because this individual doesn't do social media per se. He isn't a social media practitioner in the sense that most of our guests are, but his company powers so much of the leading social media programs in the whole world. It's a company that started off as really an app, as a widget almost, to shorten links on Twitter. And now it is the global powerhouse of social media measurement. We have on our show this week, Mark Josephson, who's the CEO of Bitly. Mark, welcome to Social Pros. Mark Josephson: Hey, guys, Adam, Scott, thanks so much for having me. I think I'm at least as fired up as you are, maybe a little bit more. Jay Baer: Wow. I am glad to hear that. We have so many questions for you. I guess the first one I would ask is, how did this happen? I mean, it's so remarkable to me and probably at some level to you, that here you have a tool that was originally developed for relatively benign purposes. And now it is this global enterprise behemoth that everybody uses for link shortening. It must've been a crazy ride. Mark Josephson: It has been an unbelievable ride and I think ultimately the thing that sets us apart from most every other startup or company that tries to make it big, is that we've got a product that really works and works a lot. It does exactly what it says it's gonna do. And you're right, we were founded to solve a very simple problem, which was the links on Twitter were just too long. This was back just when Twitter was getting started and Facebook was starting to scale. We started to see that Twitter and social, the birth of social media was much more about sharing information with each other than sharing navel gazing latte pictures, though there still are some. But I'm old enough to remember that that was the criticism of social when it started. But turned out to be an unbelievable way to share information and that has to happen with links. So we started to see customers and marketers co-opting our links in really, really smart ways that we hadn't thought of. And we started to see we had a much more powerful tool on our hands. So things like link in bio, which seems pretty innocuous, but our customers took our Bitly links, our bit links and started hacking Instagram before you could link out of Instagram and to track and understand it. Since then, we have really shifted our focus to creating what we call a link manager platform and that's something that managers your links across the entire, every channel and every component of your marketing efforts. It's used by more than two thirds of the Fortune 500 our links, and over a million active users a month of our product. Bitly takes our links and turns them from a simple and elemental and ubiquitous into this unbelievably powerful and versatile tool that so many people overlook. But as a social media marketer, as a marketer by trade, it's one of the most elemental things and one of the most important things you can take ownership of. And it has been an unbelievable ride. Jay Baer: I'm sure practically 100% of our listeners are familiar with Bitly and I'm sure a lion's share of them are customers, either for the free or paid plan. One of the things I think is really interesting though that you mentioned to us pre-show is that you're starting to see more and more uses of Bitly short links not necessarily in them marketing department inside organizations, but also in HR and operations and product development and other places. Can you talk a little bit about that? I find that very fascinating. Mark Josephson: Yeah. It's really rewarding because you start to see how that core product, which just really delivers on its promise, can be used in lots of different places. But let's step back for a second. I've been a marketer my whole career, more than 20 some odd years, a marketer at heart and I'm always trying to understand what's happening in the marketplace and how we can build products and services to help solve problems for our customers. I think one of the most important things that's happening right now is the shift from companies being the most important in the equation, to the individual being the most important. Customer centricity and the demand for relevance at the customer level is incredibly important. That's driven by the move to mobile and the iPhone and smartphone, which Jay, as I know you know, is anything but a phone, right? Then the fragmentation across all of the different channels and places. So as consumers, we expect unbelievable relevance on demand. But think about from our perspective, we make it really hard for companies to do that because the average house has five devices, but really 20% have 10 or more. We exist inside of different applications, whether that's Facebook or email or SMS or Snapchat or Slack. Whatever it is, we're all over the place and the average phone is tapped 2,600 times a day. So what we do is we turn those taps into a powerful tool for our customers. Obviously social is a sweet spot for us and we love ourselves our social media marketers. But when you start to think about product development and somebody who has to send out a million links a week as part of their communication with their fields sales force or something. Or a customer service department that needs to tie individual links to their implementation or their marketing cloud implementation, so that they can increment and track individual engagement and personalize its scale. Or if you're a job recruiter who's managing listings across 42 different listing sites. Each and every one of those requires links that are powerful, that are trackable, that are scalable, that have security, that have all the kinds of things that you need, and that's what unbelievably rewarding. The soapbox that I stand on guys is that people overlook the small things. As a marketer and as a business guy, you shoot right past the links because you take them for granted. That's where there's opportunity to optimize. It doesn't matter what part of the department you're in, what part of the enterprise. Whether you're two people or 200,000 people, you gotta reach your customers where they're clicking, tapping, swiping, or scrolling. That's where we can help. That's what gets me fired up every day. Jay Baer: There's certainly been a move toward more accountability, more measurability, more ROI tracking inside the social piece of it. As budgets go up, as social becomes more paid, it becomes more expensive to play in social to begin with. I think you would agree that Bitly and all link tracking capabilities are incredibly important to give social media marketers the kind of measurability and accountability they need to be able to make a case and say, "Look, we need more budget. We need different budget. We need to move budget. We need to put more money on this tactic versus that tactic." I think one of the things that you have coined is that dollars win and impressions lose. I'd love for you to comment on that a little bit. Mark Josephson: Sure. Let me start by saying that I think from justifying budget, justifying spend in the social department is often overlooked. Too much of what's happening in my opinion, is a focus on engagement and reach without a connection to the bottom line and to revenue. The top line and the bottom line of profit. Moving from a marketer to a CEO, the questions I'm asking of everybody on my marketing team is, "How much is this gonna generate in sales?" I think that from a very basic perspective, link management platforms can help social media marketers in a couple of ways. Number one, is it actually happening? Are you generating clicks? Are you generating volume at the top of your funnel? Super important to have lightweight, easy way to go in and track that. Guess what, our research and our experience shows that not everybody does that. Sometimes people set it and forget it. The second thing that link management platforms can do is keep all of your distribution partners and all of your channels honest. Because a click in Marketo, a click from Google, a click from Facebook, a click from Twitter, are all counted differently on those platforms. They give you the reporting. You need to have an independent third party to for starters, to keep everybody honest. But perhaps more importantly, to measure apples to apples over what you're doing. The third thing that link management platforms can help you do is tie to revenue. So for example, everything we do in social and across all of our marketing channels at Bitly, we use our product and we tie it to Salesforce. So we're Salesforce customer on CRM, we use Marketo for marketing automation, and everything we do in every campaign we run, tracks all the way through to ROI. 'Cause we need to know and we want to justify. 'Cause we're huge believers in the value of social, we think it's a massive equalizer. At the end of the day, budget of my team and I think increasingly on everybody else's teams are gonna flow to the ones where dollars are being generated. Because it is unbelievably cutthroat, unbelievably competitive. I like to say that it's never been a better or worse time to be a marketer because the opportunities are so endless, the creativity is so open. But on the flip side, you're expected now to improve your numbers every single day, every single week, and every single month. And that's hard. That's why the small things matter and links are really important. Jay Baer: Can you give us an example of something that you can do with Bitly and a link management platform that most people don't know about? I know there's lots of insider tips and tricks and things that you can do that a lot of customers don't take advantage of. What's one of the things that you're like, "Man, I wish everybody used this feature." Mark Josephson: Sure. I think if people are generating individual links for each of the customers in their CRM or on their list, so that they can track performance and lifecycle across all the different channels. So we have customers who are using our API and integrated with Salesforce in the marketing cloud for example. Also we work with HubSpot and we work with other CRMs. But to really track and deliver personalization at scale because you really start to see ... and we round trip, so if you send out a campaign that's tied to a particular customer of record and the customer engages with that, we send that data back to you and you know. So if you are a big enterprise for example, and you have a flight delay. You send out individual links to every customer who's on that flight who's been delayed with a link to a new flight for them. When you do that in 30 seconds and you send out 10,000 links, that's unbelievably personalized, unbelievably scaled, and you know who engaged with it. That's a really powerful opportunity. Jay Baer: That sure is. One of the other powerful opportunities that you don't see as much, certainly on bigger companies you do, we have one, Salesforce of course has one, is the use of custom URLs inside Bitly. We have for our company Convince and Convert. Salesforce has, I can't remember exactly what their short URL is. Talk about the power of that, Mark. The ability to use your own short URL to integrate with Bitly, to do some more branded link shortening, places where the link itself is public and present. Mark Josephson: Absolutely. One of the most important things is to get people into the top of your funnel and start moving down your funnel. At Bitly we offer a free version of hosting with your branded short domain and allow you to customize that. So you're right, Salesforce is a customer, you guys are a customer, and you can have a branded domain. Then the difference between our free and our enterprise, one of the differences is that you can customize the back half of that link. You can start to think of your link as a creative unit. So customers trust brands, so when they see your brand in the link, they know to trust it and they know they can click on it. Then they also know if you've customized it and turned the back half, instead of a random hash of letters, capitals, low caps, all of it into something that says coupon or podcast or Superbowl, whatever it is, or 10% off. You really start to inform people better and our research shows you can get up to 34% increase in CTR just by branding and customizing with Bitly. Jay Baer: Wow, 34% increase? And that's if you use your own short domain name like we're talking about? Mark Josephson: That's right, short domain name and customize it, and use it at Bitly. The difference why it has to be at Bitly and not somewhere else, is because we maintain relationships with all the distribution portals, Facebook, Twitter, Google, Linkedin, YouTube, everybody, to make sure our links actually get through. So that's important. Jay Baer: Since Mark's talking about it, let me give you an example. One of our sponsors of the program this week is of course Salesforce Marketing Cloud. They've got an ebook called, "More Than Marketing: Exploring the Five Roles of the New Marketer." It breaks down the five new essential marketing skills that we all need to make sure we still have a job into the future. One of those skills isn't link management platforms, but probably should be. That oughta be in the next edition of it. There's interviews in there, there's stories, there's actually even interactive features, it's an interactive ebook, which is pretty slick. All kinds of immediately actionable steps to master your new marketing talents. Hey, Adam, where can you get that? I'll tell you where you can get it. You can download it at I expect, ladies and gentlemen, a 34% increase in those of you downloading that, thanks to our friends at Salesforce Marketing Cloud and of course, to Mark's company Bitly for supplying the short URL that allows you to download that exact ebook. Also, quick reminder friends of our brand new podcast the Experience This show weekly podcast brought to you by our friends at Oracle Customer Experience, hosted by Joey Coleman and Dan Gingiss. Really interesting program, lots of different audio segments in each episode and it's all about the positive side of customer experience. It's not about fail this and these guys suck, it's all about companies doing amazing customer experience things and what you can learn and how you can implement that in your own business. Show is going great, you're gonna love it. If you like Social Pros, give Experience This a listen. Either find it wherever you get podcast or go to While you're using the internet, you might think about going to, which contains every single one of all of the episodes on this podcast. Dating back now almost seven years. So if you want to catch any of the things that Mark talks about today, any of the things that any of our previous guests have talked about, links to free resources, et cetera, that is the place to go. We are here at episode 293 on the podcast and all of that is at Adam, back to you. Adam Brown: Jay, thank you so much. And as you said, Jay, seven years of shows at Just a little younger than Bitly, founded in 2008. Mark Josephson, CEO of Bitly, it is so great to have you on. I've been a fan of Bitly probably since probably 2008, 2009. Tell you, I want to start with a funny question. One of the things you said when you were speaking to Jay was that it just works. Bitly just works. Of course that reminds me of one of the original people who said it just works and that was Steve Jobs and Apple. As you were talking to Jay, I had this mind blip and I remembered from Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs, where Steve Jobs talked about boot time. And he talked about how you could save people's life by reducing the boot time. I don't know if anybody knows this story. The quote from Walter Isaacson was, "If you could save a person's life, you'd find a way to save 10 seconds off the boot time." If there were five million people using a Mac and it took 10 seconds extra to turn it on every day, that added up to 300 million or so hours per year. So people could die because of the boot time on a old Macintosh. In a way, Mark, what you've done with Bitly is you've sped up the internet. Think about all those shorter characters, those shorter URLs that have been flowing through the ether of the internet. Because of you, because of Bitly, you have saved internet time, you've saved people's text charges, you've saved people's going over their data allotments. Pretty big shoulders to have to stand upon there, Mark. Mark Josephson: I'm certainly not gonna disagree with you because that's about the nicest thing anyone's ever said. But I think that what one of the things that we're lucky to be a part of is that go back 20 years when this whole thing started, and what a level playing field it was. So much of the growth was driven by the fact that everybody was programming and building on the same platform, which was html. You used to be able to see clear across the internet. We were all working together to build and grow this thing and how great that was. But now, it's really, really hard to see everything that you want to see on your customer base. It's really challenging. So I really feel blessed to be working with a product like Bitly. I've been part of five startups in my career, but this one is the product that just sings and people love it. I definitely feel like a steward of a core component of the internet and making sure that we don't ... I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this so I'll just say that we don't mess it up. Keep delivering. If Bitly went down, the whole world would know and we think about that every single day. Adam Brown: Mark, I think everybody gets how Bitly works from a shortening standpoint. That is your ubiquitous feature. I think most everyone gets the powerful measurement that you can provide. You gave Jay some great examples. The airline that's sending out 10,000 short URLs per minute to customers affected by a travel disruption of some port. One of the interesting areas that you're growing in is this understanding of optimization. Of being able to optimize marketing activities, marketing spend. By taking all this information in around those ubiquitous links. Talk a little bit about how this optimization strategy works and how your tool is going from being something maybe that the social media manager or the director of VP of digital is interested in, now to something that the CMO or CEO of your customers is realizing can help us save money. Mark Josephson: Yeah. I think there's a couple of ways to look at it. The first is from I talked about an apples to apples view of performance across every channel. We have customers big and small who use the Frankenstack of marketing technologies. We absolutely have customers who use Oracle, Adobe, and Salesforce components and hundreds of other ones. There's 17,000 sellers of marketing software and we kind of all buy lots of it. So increasingly from a CMO and a CEO perspective, getting one clear view, one view of what's happening with your customers is super important. But perhaps what's even more strategic and which I really love thinking about is the customer experience piece. I think we really take for granted as marketers that we're delivering on the expectations of our customers. I think we spend a lot of time thinking about what we want to have happen, but not as much time about what they want to have happen. Where links can be really helpful in that and where we see our business moving is in an area for example like mobile applications and deep linking. So people take for granted that when you're on desktop, you click on a link, you know it's gonna go from one webpage to another. But what if you're SMSing a password reset to somebody on a phone and they have the app installed? But your link takes them to the mobile web where they're not logged in. Man, that sucks and that user experience is really messed up. Shouldn't your link be smart enough or actually, shouldn't you be smart enough as the company to know what the consumer has on the other end? That's my expectation as a consumer. Don't send me to mobile web if I'm already logged in on the app for example. So increasingly, where we're seeing optimization opportunities is in that customer experience. If you are on an Android device, do you monetize differently on Android than you do on IOS? Do you have the app? Do you not have the app? How do you want to drive your customers to have the experience that is the ultimate for them and for you to hit your goals? That's where adding that little simple layer of link management, and link management at the most basic piece, it gives you three things. It gives you the visibility into every single touchpoint that you have with your customer because remember every click, tap, swipe, scroll, and press play is a link if you use it right. It also gives you control. Where do you want them to go next? You get to decide and you can change it and you can optimize it based on results. Then the third is getting those results and insights. I think that I elude back to the best and worst time to be a marketer, there's so much information that you can use to improve your performance, you just gotta start using. I think that the smartest, and I see that the smartest marketers are using link management as a competitive advantage for optimization. Adam Brown: Mark, that may actually get to my next question. I think you may have just answered it. It being really, what is the biggest mistake you see people make when they're using Bitly? And perhaps it's that they're not taking advantage of all the information and insights, especially for your enterprise products that is availed to them. Any other things that you look at and when you see your average user or a new user who's coming on board Bitly that just makes you cringe and go, "Oh, if only I could tell you how to ..." 30 seconds tip on how to better use Bitly. Mark Josephson: Well, I love all of our customers and they're all the smartest in the world. I think that there's some features that are not as well known about Bitly on our product that people get to use. For example, one is redirection. So if you publish a link and you want to change the destination, you can do that with our enterprise product. So the great example is link in bio or Snapchat. We have customers who are marketing on Snapchat with a custom link. So for example,, which is Amazon. They publish that link on Snapchat and they change the destination every single day. But that's the link that they're branding with on Snapchat. Once you start to think about the power of publishing a branded link like, that just rolls right off your tongue and you've branded that link. By the way, next month you might change the content that you're linking to because you've published that link someplace. So just to start to think about that real estate that exists between you and your customer as something you can do something with. That's what I want people to think about. I want them to think strategically about the opportunity, not just about a beautiful branded shortened link, which we'll do for you all day long. But I want you to get into it. I want you to dig into the numbers, log into your dashboard, see the analytics. Or if you're a Salesforce user for example, marketing cloud, you can integrate us with OAuth into every component of the marketing cloud. Adam, you know that. So how can you start using it and your numbers are gonna go up. That's what drives me is that I think we can help raise the numbers and performance of every single social marketer and every single person in enterprise if they use our products. I don't know if we save lives, but I think we can certainly save time and make money. Adam Brown: Certainly save time and make money. Again, those are really ... as one of the things that you talked a little bit about was your transition from being a marketing person to now CEO. One of the things I like to sit down with our Salesforce customers and talk about is, "Listen, there's really only two things that are important to a CEO. Making money and saving money." What you're kind of articulating here really does both of those. Mark Josephson: That's right. Adam Brown: One thing I kind of want to talk a little bit about is how you market yourself. You have one of the most ubiquitous brands for social media professionals, people who are listening to this show right now. I'm curious how you do that. I know one of the initiatives you started a year or so ago was your Bitly network, which is truly an evangelist program. Where you do have customers who are using Bitly at its greatest potential and empowering them to be able to share their stories. Talk a little bit about the Bitly network and how that rolls into your marketing and communications activities. Mark Josephson: Sure. Let me start a level higher, which is how we look at our overall marketing strategies and the break between inbound and outbound and account based, which is something we think a lot about. At Bitly, we're blessed with a really large top of funnel. We have a million monthly active users, more than that on a monthly basis, and we get many, many thousands of free account signups every single day. So our challenge isn't about driving awareness and driving inbound, it's much more about the education that happens in the middle of the funnel and making sure that we're educating people the right way. Identifying the right use cases and pain points to help them make money or save money. That's where something like the Bitly network comes in. That's where we've been trying to use some of our smartest customers to help them help share their stories about what works for them. We have got use cases from customers like musicians, chambers of commerce, some of the biggest enterprises in the world. How are they using it to solve their problems. So we think it helps us qualify in the middle of the funnel and help clarify some of the pain points that we can solve. Adam Brown: One of the things that really in a way shortened URLs at least for a little while from a visual standpoint was those QR codes. We can all laugh about them now. But I'm curious if you ever were a little anxious about what was going on with the QR codes and did you see this as being a device that would do in some cases what you were doing from a textual standpoint? Mark Josephson: I'm gonna give you some inside baseball. We used to support QR codes and create QR codes off of links and links off of QR codes. There's a patent troll that sits on the patent for QR codes. It was such a small part of our business, it was a negligible part of our business, we just decided not to support it anymore. Largely because it was a headache and we weren't seeing significant usage. I'm not sure we ever sweated that QR codes were gonna be more ubiquitous and valuable. I think there's different use cases and different avenues. The world is really, really, big. I think that we have an execution challenge and an opportunity that really is untapped without any real significant competition. So I think about every marketer, I think about every customer, every section of a company big or small that touches the customer in digital as a potential Bitly user. So QR codes were never a thing for us. I also don't know anybody who use them. Do you guys use QR codes? Adam Brown: I don't think anybody is right now. Jay Baer: I mean, not routinely, no. But back in the day, sure. Mark Josephson: Yeah, sure. Adam Brown: Sure, yeah. We saw those things everywhere. Mark, as you spoke, I began to realize the volume and power of the data that you're sitting on. I mean basically, I call it the Walmart analogy. Walmart used to share all their checkout data with Scantron and they began to realize, "Gosh, we are an entire ecosystem of our own. We actually know more about what is selling and what is not selling in retail that we can actually create our own reports and data and things like that." In a way, you are kind of looking at an ecosystem or a microcosm of the entire internet because of the number of things that are shortened in passing through your servers. Have you ever thought about doing anything or do you do things, much like the Google Zeitgeist, where you begin to look at trends and analogies and comparisons for the entire ecosystem? At least what's passing through the Bitly network? Mark Josephson: Sure, yeah. So think about it for a second. We're creating hundreds of millions of links in tens of billions of clicks on a regular basis. We get clicks from every single country in the world, every continent, including Antarctica. Every single distribution point like social platform. Every software platform. Every brand site. Every media site. In every country in the world. That's very, very real. We have a look into the walled gardens of Facebook for example with a significant volume of clicks out of Facebook. YouTube, Reddit, Linkedin, SMS, all those things. If you think about how the product works, it's a 301 redirect. So you go from Facebook to Bitly to Under Armor. We are able to see from a first party perspective, this gets to your question, billions, several billion of first party browsers every single month. And most of them are on phones. So we see how the world uses the internet and we have data science looking at trends and opportunities, largely to think about how we can translate that back to our customers, so they can be more successful. Jay Baer: Speaking of things that are successful, Mark, you told us pre-show that you have a rare skill, which is the ability to discover the single best chocolate chip cookie in any city in the world. I would defy you to discover it here in West Virginia, but let's set that aside. Let's set that aside. Although the food at this hotel is actually quite good. Tell me more about this rare skill and your chocolate chip cookie sleuthing abilities. Mark Josephson: Well, I'll tell you, I think that there are very few things in life that really matter. I think that we're on this planet for a limited amount of time. I think you gotta be mindful of the people that you love, that they're happy and safe and that you're loved and supported. Hopefully you're doing something meaningful with your day job and not just pushing widgets. But I think the third would be really enjoying wonderful things and experiences. For me, one of those is making sure I always partake in the best chocolate chip cookies. It's not about the size of the cookie, but it's about the entire experience of the cookie. I make it a point, in fact we just booked a vacation, our winter vacation last night, not small on the fact that every day they have a cookie sampling thing that they do. My wife showed me that. So I think it's really important to find those things and I never turn down a cookie. I will turn down a bad cookie that's just not worth it, but a good cookie, capital G, capital C is worth it every single time. Jay Baer: Boy, this sounds like a book. I feel like this should be a Ted Talk. The power of the good cookie. I'm guessing that you occasionally frequent a DoubleTree Hotel, known for their quality cookies and also a convincing of our clients, just by way of- Mark Josephson: I can't think of a better reason to pick a hotel than knowing that there's gonna be warm chocolate chip cookies at check-in. What better than that? Jay Baer: That may be a quote in my new book, which has a case study about that exact point. So we'll see. I may have to interview you for your predilections about cookies. Mark Josephson: I could go on all day, trust me. Jay Baer: Speaking of predilections, I know Adam wants to ask you something about another of your hobbies. Adam Brown: Yeah, first off, I'm just sitting over here trying to figure out what's a bad cookie? Is there such a thing? But I know there is. Mark Josephson: Okay, 'cause we could really talk about that, right? Like really, really dry, super crumbly, mass produced. Adam Brown: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mark Josephson: Uneven distribution of chocolate chips. I would say if you put nuts in there, that throws it off to the bad zone, but that's an opinion. Jay Baer: He's a purest. Adam Brown: Even macadamia nuts, no? Mark Josephson: Even macadamia nuts. Adam Brown: Oh, well, okay. Well, we can agree to disagree on that, Mark. Mark Josephson: Maybe. Adam Brown: Another thing you did tell us that Jay teed up, was that you are a pretty big Bruce Springsteen fan and that you know the lyrics to any Bruce Springsteen song. Mark Josephson: Yeah. Adam Brown: So I thought what we would do here, this is not planned- Mark Josephson: Oh, god. Adam Brown: This is going to be a bit of a quiz. I have in my hands- Jay Baer: Oh, I thought we were gonna go to Social Pros karaoke here, but you actually have a ... you're putting him on the spot with lyrics quiz? That's pretty tough. All right. Adam Brown: I am and hands off keyboards because we are not gonna do, no Googling here. Mark Josephson: Of course. Adam Brown: But Mark Josephson, CEO of Bitly, I'm going to ask you a question and I'm gonna give you two lines from a lyrics from a 1987 Bruce Springsteen song. I hope this ones pretty easy and hopefully you'll be able to give us the title of the said song. The lyric is, are you ready, Mark? Mark Josephson: I am ready and I'm really not gonna cheat. Adam Brown: Okay. We stood at the altar, the gypsy swore our future was right, but come the wee wee hours, maybe baby- Mark Josephson: Maybe baby the gypsy lied. That is from Tunnel of Love. Is it Tunnel of Love? Adam Brown: It is not. Mark Josephson: Oh my god. Adam Brown: Brilliant Disguise. Mark Josephson: Brilliant Disguise, but all- Jay Baer: He knew the lyric though. Adam Brown: Yeah, yeah- Jay Baer: He knew the lyric though. Mark Josephson: But maybe baby the gypsy lied. Jay Baer: Yeah. I mean knowing the second half of the lyric is perhaps more impressive than knowing the song title in my estimation. Adam Brown: You still get a check mark on- Mark Josephson: No, I can see it, I can see the video. I see him sitting on the stool with the guitar, the long pants, zoom in. Adam Brown: I think it's in black and white too. Mark Josephson: Yes, it is. Jay Baer: I love that. Mark Josephson: Shoot. Jay Baer: Well done. Mark Josephson: Give me another one. Jay Baer: Well done. Mark Josephson: Can I get one more? Adam Brown: I think Jay's got two more for you. Mark Josephson: Oh, good. Jay Baer: I don't, I don't. I have two other questions, but do you have another lyrics question? Adam, did you prep a second lyrics question for our guest? Adam Brown: I did not. Jay Baer: All right. Adam Brown: The accounting firm of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe only gave me one. Jay Baer: Gave him one, okay. We'll let him off the hook. When Mark comes back on the show, we'll do a whole show of cookies and Bruce Springsteen questions. Mark Josephson: Just so you know, guys, I'm not sleeping tonight. That was like a brutal, brutal punch in the stomach. Jay Baer: Re-tape the show. Mark Josephson: Yeah, could we rewind? Jay Baer: Mark, thank you so much for being on the show. We're gonna close that with the two questions we've asked all 293 of our guests on the show. First question is, what one tip would you give somebody looking to become a social pro? Mark Josephson: Learn how to count. Math is every bit as important, if not more so than the creative side. I think that too often social pros come in thinking that it's just about storytelling and not about measurement and bottom line. Jay Baer: Bam, mic drop. I'd be doing the slow clap right now, but it's not good on the microphone. That was spectacular, I could not agree more. Adam Brown: Right brain, left brain. Jay Baer: Thank you. Yeah, well said. Last question, Mark, if you could do a Skype call with any living person, who would it be? Mark Josephson: I would say Bruce Springsteen, but that would be too easy, so I will say Barack Obama, I think. I have a lot of questions for what really happens and what's going on behind the scenes and give us a little bit of hope. Jay Baer: Was the Obama campaign a Bitly customer? Mark Josephson: Yeah, Obama for America. Jay Baer: Very nice, there you go. Very cool. That's fantastic. Great answer. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show and for all you do for all the social pros out there, making their lives a little easier, and in some cases a lot easier. Giving them the kind of data and illumination necessary to fight for budget and all that. Fantastic job at Bitly. I think everybody knows how to find you if they want to talk to you about Bitly enterprise, just go to the website and click and have somebody call you. How do you want them to do that? Mark Josephson: That's perfect. Or just hit me at @markjosephson and I'll get you to the right spot. Jay Baer: There you go, guys. There's the invitation to reach out to the CEO directly at Mark Josephson on the Twitter. Mark, thanks so much, really appreciate you having on the show. On behalf of Adam Brown from Salesforce Marketing Cloud, I am as always Jay Baer from Convince and Convert and this has been your favorite podcast, this has been Social Pros.
Mark Josephson: Take care, guys.
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