How to Bring Profound Closeness to Virtual Teams With Sococo

marketing marvels - sococo

This week on Marketing Marvels, I want to introduce you to Sococo, a fantastic virtual office environment we use here Convince and Convert.

Full Episode Details

marketing marvels - sococo

This week on Marketing Marvels, I’m thrilled to introduce you to Sococo, the application we use most frequently here at Convince and Convert.

Sococo is a virtual office environment that lets distributed teams like mine feel like they’re in the same office together. Of all the applications we use at Convince and Convert (we have around 120 software licenses), Sococo is the one we use the most. It has quite literally changed the way we work, and Convince and Convert could not exist in its current form without Sococo.

Sococo allows team members to be in the office no matter where they are. They could be at the headquarters, a remote location, Starbucks, their home office — no matter the location, they’re always at the office with Sococo.

Here to walk us through how it all works is Mark Kirshbaum, Chairman & CEO of Sococo. I really love this software platform, and I’m thrilled that Mark is here to show it to you. Enjoy!




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Episode Transcript

Jay Baer:Hey everybody, it is Jay Baer. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Marvels, the technology demo show where I show you stuff that you might very well want to license for your own organization. Each and every episode includes a short demo of technology that I endorse and recommend, and believe in. And today's episode certainly meets that test.
Joining us on Marketing Marvels is Mark Kirshbaum who's the chairman and CEO of a company called Sococo. Which, okay, let me just break this down for you guys. Of all the stuff I use, and I think I've told you on this show before, we have 120 software licenses or something, Convince & Convert, so we knows a little bit about software. Other than Gmail, the application that I use the most in my entire life is this application, Sococo. It is a virtual office environment, it lets distributed teams like mine really feel like they're in the same office together. It has quite literally changed the way that I work. And my company, Convince & Convert, could not exist in current form without Sococo. So my friend, it is a great pleasure for me to have you on Marketing Marvels, and thank you for all the work that you do, because it has really changed my life.
Mark Kirshbaum:Wow, Jay. Thanks for those very, very kind words. I couldn't have said it better myself, I really really appreciate it. And just glad to be here.
Jay Baer:Now a lot of people use technology to bring your teams together, and it's of course increasingly common for workforces to be distributed. I'll just tell ya as an aside, we started as an all-virtual company at Convince & Convert 10 years ago, when the company was founded. And in those days, as you all know, like clients will go, "Well what do you mean you don't have an office?" Like, "What do you mean people are all over the world working out of their house?" Like it was kinda crazy talk 10 years ago, we were definitely ahead of the curve, and had to do some like, "Simmer down, it's gonna be okay," kind of circumstances. But now, of course, more and more and more personnel, even people in big, big companies are distributed, and certainly Sococo allows them to have that commonality of purpose, and that communication thread that really makes it work.
So I think I want to have you show a couple of slides that frame it up for people, because when I describe it, you're like, "What are you talking about, Jay?" I want to have you show some slides and then we'll do a demo, alright?
Mark Kirshbaum:That sounds great, yeah. The reality is you know, distributed teams, you might have been on the forefront of it years ago, but this is a trend that's going nowhere but up. And so if you can see my slides now, Jay?
Jay Baer:Yes, sir.
Mark Kirshbaum:Alright, great. Just to share with you, you know, as you said, this is the new reality. And good for you for being on the cutting edge of it, because work is no longer happening in one physical location. It's talent, and not just real estate, or even primarily real estate. It's determining where collaboration happens, and so the result is the workforce is now a distributed workforce. You know, over 50% of all employees are expected to be working remotely by 2020, and remotely means different physical locations. That doesn't even take in to account what's a broader, and perhaps a more generally accepted term, for distributed teams, which is any organization or people that are separated by a wall, or 100 meters, are really considered distributed. And so you know...
Jay Baer:If you're on a different floor of your giant office tower, it's not that dissimilar from me being here and Kristen on my team being in Fort Worth, right? It's fundamentally the same, the same environment.
Mark Kirshbaum:Yeah, and how much time are you gonna waste going in the elevator up to that floor to find out that the person is either not there, on the phone, in a meeting, or whatever the case might be?
Jay Baer:That's the research project we need to do together. We need to RFID people and measure their elevator time, and figure out the ROI of Sococo.
Mark Kirshbaum:Totally, totally. I mean if you, we digress for a second, but if you're on the Apple campus, you know in Cupertino, scheduling meetings and you need to put 20-30 minutes between each meeting just to get around, oh and by the way there still aren't enough meeting rooms for everyone on campus.
Jay Baer:Yeah they just built it.
Mark Kirshbaum:Yeah, yeah. And then you think of all the time and money that's spent to bring people physically together, but I'll get to that in a second. But let's just talk about the challenge, 'cause as physical distance increases, the reality is the results drop for organization. And the data show that innovation behavior falls dramatically, trust declines [inaudible 00:04:43] behavior declines. Rolling goal clarity goes down because people are not connected. Project success drops, and the big one to me, organizational commitment and job satisfaction truly, truly decline. And that's not a good situation. And so what companies have done to address this so far, and to do it well, is to use communication tools. And these tools are just to facilitate communication but the reality is they don't go so far as to replace that physical presence and build the trust.
And so distributed teams, even if they're using some of these other tools that I know you feature, and are wonderful tools for organization, the distributed teams still lack human connection, trust, spontaneity, that's a big one, shared culture, and employee engagement and employee satisfaction. So Sococo is a real solution for several real problems that are pinpoints for organizations today. And so we can allow organizations to maintain uniquely the benefits of both co-location and distribution by what we say, and you said it beautifully, Jay, coming to work in Sococo. It's not start a meeting, it truly is, "This is where I come to work each day. This is where I end my work day," at the end of the day.
And so those pinpoints that we address are allowing organizations to hire and retain talent. So no longer being geographically constrained, recruit the top talent without those constraints wherever people might be. Allow flexibility for team members to be in the office no matter where they are. They could be at the headquarters, they could be at a remote location, they could be at Starbucks, you know they could be at their home office, they could be on their mobile device, which Sococo has available already.
And extending the company culture in a sense of connectedness. There's a big problem with employees working from home, by themselves all day, how do they feel a part of a team? How do they see activity going on? And when we get to the demo, Jay, you'll see that that activity takes place and you can really see it with avatars and conversation in place in Sococo, as you know. And too...
Jay Baer:That's something that's key for us, is that we've got everybody in our team is working in an office of one, right? So it's not like we've got a bunch of small groups, we have a bunch of ones. And we meet one time a year. We have one meeting a year. For the whole corporation.
Mark Kirshbaum:And you can think of the cost if you brought that together four times a year.
Jay Baer:I mean that, that's why it's such a vital tool for us. It's what really is the DNA of the organization everyday.
Mark Kirshbaum:That's awesome, and so that plays into reducing expenses right? You reduce the cost or expense of physical office space for people, price of square footage $2-$3 per foot a month, and instead pay the user fee on a monthly basis for that employee in Sococo which is low two-digits a month. You can hold effective full-day and multi-day meetings. We have agile development teams that get together every 12-14 weeks within an organization and instead of physically bringing 80-120 people together each time, they're now holding those meetings in Sococo with breakout groups, moderators, etc. They're saving $100000 or more every quarter by holding those meetings in Sococo.
And then, recovering that lost productivity time, which weighs into the third point of increasing productivity. We'll show you in the demo, which we use the word demo but it's only 'cause we're showing it, it is real it is live, as you know. How you can see to interact with your team members. I can walk around the office without geographic restrictions. I can sit next to someone in Germany or London or Iowa, you know, at the same time, in Sococo. And it increases trust by increasing transparency and synchronous communication and collaboration. When you see and hear people's avatars popping around the office, grabbing people, a quick question, whatever it might be. And that allows us to bring people together faster.
And lastly, gaining insight. By viewing the presence and collaboration patterns across an organization, by beginning to cull this data that we have to help the organizations see how people are collaborating, and I wanna emphasize, not in a big brother way, but in a productivity way, of being able to see, "Are the teams talking to each other?" "Are people getting together, are they coming into Sococo and working in a collaborative way?" And we can allow organizations to complement their perceptions of what's happening in an organization with their team, with actual data. And that's what we're hearing from marquee customers.
You know, I love the quote from Agile Craft on the bottom there, "Sococo's the oxygen that helps us seamlessly and spontaneously collaborate around the world." And so we're really pleased to be able to help these organizations really mesh together the benefits of being geographically located, with the geographic flexibility, and get both of those and be on the cusp and connecting, collaboration tools, in an effective office environment, no matter where people are located, working side by side in Sococo.
Jay Baer:Yeah we get a little tease of the demo there on your graphic, as you can see the application in the middle of your slide, so that's a good transition to jump into the app, we'll see how Sococo works. And one of the things that we'll see, Marketing Marvels viewers, is just how easy this is. So we bring new people onto the team fairly frequently and the onboarding process for Sococo is like 30 seconds. Because it is pretty darn intuitive. Like if you can't, if you have a new hire who can't figure this out quickly, you might want to rethink the hire. That's how I look at it, 'cause it's pretty self-explanatory which is what I like about it.
Mark Kirshbaum:Awesome, well welcome to our Sococo headquarters. This is one of many different kind of maps that an organization can choose dependent upon their culture and the size, and by the way we stack these maps too, so if maybe 100 people is good for one floor, we can have whole buildings that you can find people across the spaces and across those floors.
Jay Baer:Our map has a bunch of bars in it, I'm just gonna tell you that right now. We have several, several lounges and cocktail bars in our map. You know, we're just trying to keep it real.
Mark Kirshbaum:That's awesome. You'll see we had one that was a lounge on the bottom but did you know you can change the names of room instantaneously, and that's what people do, to name the room what a meeting is. And it does cause people to think a little bit differently, you know? Some people have said to me, "Well what about reserving rooms? You know, isn't that a problem?" I'm like, "Think differently!" Why do you have to worry about reserving a room? It's unlimited space. Grab a room, name it, people will see where you are, and they'll know that's where they need to be. They'll know when a meeting's started because people are starting to congregate in that room, so if it's 10:03 instead of 10:00, great. People know what's going on. If you wanted to have Robert in your meeting, but you can see Robert's engaged in another discussion, lots of ways to communicate.
So let me walk you around the Sococo office, Jay, if that makes sense.
Jay Baer:You bet.
Mark Kirshbaum:Alright, so you see some activity going on. We are not in Sococo right now, you and I, but you'll see my avatar, so whoever said you can't be in more than one place at the same time. You'll see, toward the middle, you'll see the conference room onward and upward. Well if you look to the left of that, there's my avatar where it says Mark, in my office, and so you can see I have my headphones on right now so if someone were to pop in my office, I would hear them and I would have the chance to turn on my mic and my camera, or even my screen-share if I wanted to.
But you'll see if you look down to the left from my room, you'll see a room called 1407, I still don't know the origin of this, of this name, but you'll see three people. You'll see John Quigley, Chris Young, and Eugene in a meeting in this room. And I can tell John is actively speaking as his avatar is blinking. Chris also has his microphone on, but I can see over John's head is the white screen which means John's also screen-sharing. Eugene is a guest in our Sococo headquarters. I can tell that because of the blue and white box toward the bottom of Eugene's avatar. So Eugene is able to come in with a guest link, but the only way Eugene can walk around this room, and this is [inaudible 00:13:00]. The only way Eugene can walk around if Eugene's escorted. Guests do not have the opportunity to obviously wander around the office. Think exactly like a physical office. We're not analogous to communication tool, we're analogous to someone's physical office space.
So I, as the head of this business, I can actively see, "Wow, John and Chris are in a conversation." It's not a one-way conversation. Chris' avatar is now blinking. John's is blinking. They're actually engaged. If I zoom, if I scoot, skip over all the way to the right of the screen, in the So Collaborative room, and this is part of our mantra: So connected, so collaborative, so simple. I can tell that Robert and Snail are in a discussion. They're both their video is on, because of the green circle there, their mics are on, Robert's actually speaking right now. You'll see there's a persistent share that's on the table. That's a monitor there. That allows people to leave a document, leave a URL link, leave a project, plan, a gyroboard, whatever it is, to leave it in that room persistently for meetings. And obviously it's secure for that perspective.
Nate, Kristen and Rachel are in a meeting. I can tell you Nate is in Eugene, Oregon, Kristen is in Minneapolis, and Rachel is in the Bay Area. They are working side by side and collaborating, just like if you went to the top left corner, the Dev Grotto, that's where our dev team, some of them hang out during the day. Henry is actually in Boston, Phillip is in Germany. But these folks sit side by side all day, working together. If they have a problem they need to solve, a question to address, they'll just break out into one of the rooms and grab somebody and go.
So let me show you how I can actually grab someone, I will find where I can say, "Okay, I'm looking to find where Zoe is." I can go to the "find" feature on the side, I can type in the start of Zoe's name, and boom. It will spotlight Zoe and tell me exactly where she is. It gives me options. I can open a chat with her which is either the Sococo chat, or we're integrated with Slack, so Slack chat would be started. I can knock on the door if I feel like being polite of where she is, or I can do a "Get" on Zoe. Which means she'll get a pop-up message saying, "Mark's asking you to join him in his office." The fourth option of course is to just walk in to the room, and go in there.
Jay Baer:That's what I always do. That's what I always do when I have a few minutes between meetings. I do drive-bys.
Mark Kirshbaum:Totally.
Jay Baer:I just pop into people's office, turn on their camera like, "What's going on, what's up?"
Mark Kirshbaum:I totally do that all the time.
Jay Baer:It's incredibly rude but I find it very fun.
Mark Kirshbaum:Yep, it's managed, if I'm walking around and the only way that you can't do it is if someone actually locks the door on you and locks you out. So let me actually, I will knock on the door right now. You might have heard the knock. Let's see if Zoe and Claire will let me in. Boom, they did.
Jay Baer:So your blue avatar actually moved from where you were into their room?
Mark Kirshbaum:That's right, she let me in. Hi there! Zoe and Claire, please meet Jay Baer of Convince & Convert. And now you can see, we're in the Sococo office, if there's some delay it's because I'm running two videos and two audios at the same time. But instantly, I grabbed my colleagues, we can have a conversation whether it's two minutes or an hour. Pop right out, and we're done. So this is how we move around Sococo, and how we get to know each other, work together and in fact I worked for months with Zoe and Claire before we physically met, and the only thing we didn't know about each other was how tall or how short someone is. We already built a relationship in Sococo.
So Zoe and Claire happen to be in our Provo, Utah office, so thanks to both of you for being there.
Jay Baer:And you could then share a document with them, as well, into that meeting room. You could augment this conversation with chat. There's a number of other things you could do, but the instant video conferencing is so simple and really takes the place of that, "Let me just pop in to your office and ask you a question," that we're so familiar with in a regular physical office environment.
Mark Kirshbaum:That's right, that's right. And that's why I made the point of, you can have the benefits of co-location, and still take advantage of the benefits of a distributed team.
Jay Baer:Yeah, absolutely. I love it.
Mark Kirshbaum:Thanks Zoe, thanks Claire, I'm gonna pop back out of my office. They of course could kick me out if they wanted to.
Jay Baer:Yeah, that's what they should do is kick you out.
Mark Kirshbaum:I'm gonna leave before they do that to me. Thanks guys!
Jay Baer:Mark, how many folks could you have on that video call simultaneously if you wanted to?
Mark Kirshbaum:So we have then simply an unlimited number of people that could be there, screen-wise we can show 10 screens concurrently, and it's smart enough to know kind of who's speaking and to make that person appear on that screen.
Jay Baer:I love it.
Mark Kirshbaum:Our biggest constraint is the same thing everyone else has in terms of bandwidth and connection speeds, that every other tool has.
Jay Baer:Sure. On the chat side, you said that you integrate with Slack Chat, you also have your own native chat. Are those chat histories persistent or archivable in any way?
Mark Kirshbaum:So we do not archive our chats for privacy and security reasons, but if someone is using Slack, then they're following exactly Slack's guidelines and it is Slack. So that's the most of the nickel tour, what I can do is I can also, you see I can right-click on my room, I can get a guest link that I could share with people. I could start a meeting which means it would give me a prompt to add names and invite people, set a timer for it, etc. As I said, I could close the door. I could change the room name if I wanted to. Let's just change this, and now it's "Jay's Cave."
Jay Baer:Oh I like that.
Mark Kirshbaum:Boom. Now it's "Jay's Cave." And the room is changed. So people have fun with this, we have this end-of-the-month when our sales team, which they always do, they hit their number, they actually have a race around the Sococo office, so they start in the top left corner, and they have to pop into each room. And whoever gets back to the start first wins. Again, it's just a fun way to collaborate and build relationships, which again solves those issues that distributed teams have that we talked about in the beginning, Jay.
Jay Baer:One thing that I think we should clarify is you have a membership, an account, to Sococo, even if you're not currently online it'll still show your name over there on the sort of list of people, right? So what I like about it personally, because our team travels a lot, not just me but everybody. So just at a glance, I can figure out who's online, who's in town, who's not there, because their icon is green, or it's not.
Mark Kirshbaum:Yep, so perfect point. Here, I'm hovering over Chase, and if you can see the hover it says, "Chase is offline." But if I go down to Taylor, Taylor it says what his role is and it says he's available. I can also see on that some of these avatars are blinking, so Snail, he's already speaking in So Collaborative with Robert. So this whole presence that Sococo gives you with the map is really, really differentiated and makes a big difference for organizations.
Jay Baer:And as I mentioned, really easy to set up. There are a number of existing maps that you can choose from and customize to the desires of your office. We should also just briefly touch on the mobile application which I actually use quite a bit, because I am gone so much. You don't get the same kind of office graphics for sort of obvious reasons, and screen size and all that. But it's terrific, 'cause it does give you the list of everybody, and so you know who's there, who's not there, you can do the same kind of meetings, the same kind of live chat, it works really well.
Mark Kirshbaum:And the screen-shares can be seen and you can pinch in and pinch out on those as well. Absolutely, thanks for mentioning that.
Jay Baer:Yeah, I end up doing a lot of Sococo meetings with people from Ubers and things like that, to and from different places, and it works really really well.
Mark Kirshbaum:I'm glad you said Uber and not while you were driving.
Jay Baer:Ha no, I would not do that. Anything new coming down the path on the product side that we should know about?
Mark Kirshbaum:Yeah so we're actually in our new, enhanced meeting environment, you know. We are the office space, we are where teams come to work. And a critical component of that is obviously the ability to communicate effectively. So audio, video and chat are critically important as well as screen-share. And so this is our new and improved environment that is rolling out to our customers now, again it's higher quality, quicker connection times, better stability, more options in terms of the way you view the video, and you know that we have multiple screen-shares concurrently. So people can share their screens multiple times.
We are working on a tablet version as well, continuously looking at improvements on our mobile applications, looking at more integrations. Remember, we don't want to be that communication, that collaboration tool, we want you to bring those collaboration tools to your Sococo office and put them on your desk. So that's what we're looking at. More layouts as well, and we've got a ... I'll add one more which is again more analytics, and insight for our customers. And you can imagine we've got a product roadmap that takes us well into 2019.
Jay Baer:I love it. Fantastic. Thank you very much for showing us around, I love to see everybody's different way they handle their own office environment. It's kind of a fascinating set of circumstances. Let me un-share your screen, I'll ask you a couple other questions here.
So it seems to me like in terms of who this is right for, obviously it's right for a company like mine that is purely virtual, but as you mentioned, almost all companies have at least some distributed workforce, so there's really no limit to who this would be a good fit for.
Mark Kirshbaum:100%. The only ones who I would not recommend Sococo to are sole-proprietors who work by themselves. Sococo is not a [inaudible 00:23:21] effective place, unless you're gonna use it to invite guests in for that purpose, but then you're not using it as a place truly where you come to work. So as I said, any organization with two or more people, by either definition of distributed. Physically, by geography or by walls, it's a very, very effective tool. And it's most effective when people come to work in Sococo and work here all day, as you know.
Jay Baer:And you charge for it by the user, by tiers, how do you calculate that?
Mark Kirshbaum:Yeah, our pricing is on a per-user basis, either on a monthly or an annual contract. And the pricing, you know, is discounted based upon number of users as well as whether it's a monthly or annual contract.
Jay Baer:And I will say obviously the pricing is a sliding scale based on number of users, but I find it to be quite reasonable, especially given how important it is to continue to build that teamwork and that familiarity in the innovation curve inside a distributed workforce. You know the price we pay for Sococo versus the value it generates is pretty insignificant.
Mark Kirshbaum:Awesome, thanks. I agree with you. And you know, you could pay $400-$500 a month for office space or even more for an individual, or you could pay approximately $15 a month to come to work in Sococo. It's a big difference, and we wanted to price it competitively so it would be kind of a no-brainer kind of decision. It's priced like a communication or collaboration tool, but we believe gives you so much more.
Jay Baer:And as you mentioned, it doesn't preclude you from using those other kind of tools. Like you said, you've got Slack integrated into your own Sococo, and you make Sococo right? So it's not as if it's a, "this or that," it's a, "this plus that." Which…
Mark Kirshbaum:We have a client I was talking to the other day, they have 200 employees that come to work in Sococo each day. Half of those approximately are distributed. And they said that their ideal work environment is Slack plus Sococo. And so we have customers ranging from 12-15 people that come to work in Sococo, to actually as large as 3000.
Jay Baer:Wow, 3000. That's amazing. You'd want to use that find feature more often.
Mark Kirshbaum:Totally. Totally. That's what we call a campus or skyscraper.
Jay Baer:Yeah. Where's Waldo? I love it. Tell me a little bit about your history, and how and why you started this company.
Mark Kirshbaum:Yeah absolutely. I am a builder. That's what I love to do. I love to build businesses. And so I have done that on large, global organizations, and I've done that in small startups across a number of industries. I've spent most of my time over the last five years as a strategic advisor, working with investors, family offices, investment groups, helping with their direct investments into companies. And so I got involved with Sococo as a result of that, joined the board of Sococo about two and a half years ago, and really was enamored by it. And about 14 months ago, stepped into the role, Ad CEO. And did it in large part representing our largest single investor, because of the stickiness of Sococo, right?
Despite the fact that two years ago, a year and a half ago, you know audio/video was challenging, frustrating for some. We still had incredible stickiness. You know, we have an incredibly high top-quartile customer retention rate. And that's a tribute to the uniqueness of Sococo. And when I saw that, I decided that this was an excellent way to invest my time and energy, and to grow this business. To see, you know, we just had an event with our, an all-hands meeting before I came in here. And so much feedback from our own employees was actually the fact that we drink our own medicine. That one of the biggest benefits of Sococo is actually Sococo.
Jay Baer:Yeah, it's funny right? Last question, what's a Marketing Marvel for you Mark? Obviously you like Sococo, as do I. Obviously you use Slack. Other than those two, what's a piece of marketing or collaboration software or tool out there that you would recommend?
Mark Kirshbaum:Yeah, I for a long time, have been a dashboard geek. I love being able to have a dashboard view.
Jay Baer:Spoken like a CEO!
Mark Kirshbaum:Yeah, of what's going on in the business. So we here at Sococo use Grow, and I find Grow to be an excellent tool to aggregate different sources of data. Whether that's coming out of our sales force reporting, or elsewhere. I have two monitors on my desk. I'm looking at you in my camera through one of them, and if I turn my head to my left, I'm looking at my Grow dashboard.
Jay Baer:That's great. Terrific, terrific recommendation. That'd be a good one for another episode of this show, too. A lot of people don't know about it, and that'd be a good one to demonstrate. So thank you for that as well. Mark, thank you and the entire Sococo team for really putting together something that makes a huge difference for me personally, and hopefully for a number of viewers here at Marketing Marvels. You can try Sococo, essentially risk-free, tell them a little bit about that. How do you want people to kind of get on board?
Mark Kirshbaum:Absolutely, come to our website,, Start a free trial, it is a full-featured trial for 15 days. We'll reach out to you and give you some tips and tricks on how to most effectively bring your team into Sococo, and use it effectively for your organization. And then become a paid customer and bring your organization to come to work in Sococo and get the benefits of both co-location and distribution and not suffer any longer about the challenges of a distributed team. And so we welcome that, and we'd love to help those organizations grow.
Jay Baer:Yeah, I can tell you if you use it for 15 days and you actually really use it, you're not gonna want to stop on day 16. I can tell you that, 'cause you're gonna fall in love with it. It'll be part of your routine by then, at least that's been my experience very much. I hear somebody knocking on your office right now which is ... See? He's not kidding, they actually use the tool. Somebody's knocking during…
Mark Kirshbaum:That was Robert, knocking on my door. That was Robert knocking on my door, exactly.
Jay Baer:That was pretty professional. I love that very much. Alright Mark, thank you so much for being here. Thanks to all of you as well. Ladies and gentlemen, for all the new episodes here on Marketing Marvels where I tell you stuff I think you oughta be interested in, if you go to all lowercase,, that'll take you to the YouTube channel, you can subscribe there, and you'll never miss an episode. Marketing Marvels is of course a production of Convince & Convert Media, where we do the Social Pros podcast, the Con X podcast, our award-winning blog and all kinds of other stuff for marketers and business owners, if you go to, you can see the whole thing.
On behalf of Mark and the Sococo team, me and the folks at Convince & Convert, thanks so much for being here. We'll see you next time on Marketing Marvels.
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